Yorkshire vs Lancashire Academy

[17 stone giant]

And I forgot to mention that your attendance figure for England v Scotland is misleading too, since that was part of a double header that also included Australia v NZ.

Had I gone to that game - and I've been to watch Aus v NZ at Loftus Road before - it would have been mostly to watch that game and maybe 20% to watch England have a run out - even though I'm English. That's because England v Scotland in RL is not a genuine contest by any marker.

[17 stone giant]

Three try scorers for Scotland that day. One born in Scotland, one in Yorkshire, one in New South Wales. I won't even bother to look at the rest of the players to see where they were from. Laughable.

But, sure, keep rubbishing any idea of an origin series that might actually involve players representing an area that they're from. Playing the likes of Ireland is obviously the key to RL success. Makes you wonder why we haven't done it since 2013! I guess it's a long, long way to Tipperary, though. Too far to travel or for them to visit.

[17 stone giant]

.

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, Saint 1 said:

 

Taking Origin to Perth works because they have spent the first 30 odd years of the contest building it up in front of crowds and with players that genuinely care about it, a thing that would never in England because nobody in Lancashire does care about it. I'm not going to make the effort because I don't have an obligation to support every ###### idea RL fans come up with. It encourages ###### ideas rather than the actual test matches we could be playing. 

It's also a really odd argument to make that people won't bother with a sporting event unless it is guaranteed to be close until the final minute. People turned up for England vs Fiji regardless of any expectation about the result because if you have a well publicised sporting contest with 2 non-gimmick teams, people will turn up. The last Lancashire Yorkshire game didn't even give the greatly contested battle you claim would happen, Yorkshire won by 50 points! So what you're saying is rather than play say England vs Fiji in front of 24k people, because England won by 22 points, we should instead play Lancashire Yorkshire in front of a quarter of that crowd, and still might not even get the close game you promise? 

 

Send me the lottery numbers for this weekend please, you talk as though you have all the answers, 

[getdownmonkeyman]

20 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Back to the OP, great piece spoke about it by Craig Harrison on Backchat or perhaps as I alluded to earlier the apathy shown towards it, I am not surprised in the least, it is the same on this site, a bloody thread about using the initial letters of a clubs name can get more responses than an issue like the lack of notification, advertising coverage and attendance of the next best high profile players at 18's level says a lot about the mentallity of some people who write on this site!

You can't show apathy to something you are unaware of.

[JM2010]

I think if it's marketed well it could be built into a big event. I think the key to making it a success is to get fans to pick a side.

Yorkshire is an obvious one as that is a region of England but fans from Greater Manchester, Chesire and Merseyside might not identify with Lancashire.

How about North West vs Yorkshire as these are both actual regions of England plus Cumbrian players could then be involved so it will be a series involving the best home grown players playing in SL (London excluded).

They will be high quality games are definitely go and watch

[JM2010]

Getting back to the OP, the same games could be played for the Academy as curtain raisers to these games

[17 stone giant]

5 hours ago, Saint 1 said:

So what you're saying is rather than play say England vs Fiji in front of 24k people, because England won by 22 points, we should instead play Lancashire Yorkshire in front of a quarter of that crowd, and still might not even get the close game you promise? 

 

I'm not necessarily saying "rather than". Ideally it would be in addition to. Plus I'm not expecting miracles from the beginning. Start off with 10-15000 capacity stadiums. 

[Luckycreed]

13 hours ago, Saint 1 said:

 

Taking Origin to Perth works because they have spent the first 30 odd years of the contest building it up in front of crowds and with players that genuinely care about it, a thing that would never in England because nobody in Lancashire does care about it. I'm not going to make the effort because I don't have an obligation to support every ###### idea RL fans come up with. It encourages ###### ideas rather than the actual test matches we could be playing. 

It's also a really odd argument to make that people won't bother with a sporting event unless it is guaranteed to be close until the final minute. People turned up for England vs Fiji regardless of any expectation about the result because if you have a well publicised sporting contest with 2 non-gimmick teams, people will turn up. The last Lancashire Yorkshire game didn't even give the greatly contested battle you claim would happen, Yorkshire won by 50 points! So what you're saying is rather than play say England vs Fiji in front of 24k people, because England won by 22 points, we should instead play Lancashire Yorkshire in front of a quarter of that crowd, and still might not even get the close game you promise? 

 

In the early days of origin nobody in NSW cared about it either, but losing to QLD and then not getting picked to play for Australia soon got the NSW players interested and everything flowed from there.

[TheDuke]

So what were the academy teams ?

[Harry Stottle]

12 hours ago, getdownmonkeyman said:

You can't show apathy to something you are unaware of.

That is very true as to the actual event, but that was not the point I was making, the OP of this thread brought it to the forums attention that this game had taken place, there was not much comment made to that revelation even though there had been multiple views made, but put something really important on like, "new clubs shirts" and there are hundreds of replies, personally I think a lot of people spout about their concern for the game but really have no idea whats going on or even care enough to do anything about it.

 

[GeordieSaint]

20 hours ago, 17 stone giant said:

And I forgot to mention that your attendance figure for England v Scotland is misleading too, since that was part of a double header that also included Australia v NZ.

Had I gone to that game - and I've been to watch Aus v NZ at Loftus Road before - it would have been mostly to watch that game and maybe 20% to watch England have a run out - even though I'm English. That's because England v Scotland in RL is not a genuine contest by any marker.

I was at the game; the vast majority were there to see England vs Scotland, especially all the locals. The Aus vs NZ was an added bonus. Both were good games and Scotland were competitive albeit against an underperforming England side.

[17 stone giant]

5 hours ago, GeordieSaint said:

I was at the game; the vast majority were there to see England vs Scotland, especially all the locals. The Aus vs NZ was an added bonus. Both were good games and Scotland were competitive albeit against an underperforming England side.

That's great to hear. So, that's Ireland, Fiji and Scotland on the list of worthwhile opponents for England then. Let's hope the RFL arrange regular matches against these teams from now on. Should be guaranteed 20000 plus attendances for all three fixtures.

[17 stone giant]

3 hours ago, Saint 1 said:

As long as it gets half of that it will be beating most Lancashire Yorkshire games.

The first State of Origin game got a crowd of 33k. The first State of Origin crowd in NSW was 27k. In the entire history of RL, no Lancashire vs Yorkshire game has ever got a crowd of 19k. The two are not comparable. 

And now the Australian SOO can attract crowds of 80000.  The potential for promoting such a game and  for encouraging people to take an interest and feel part of it, is greater than ever before - thanks mainly to the internet. I was just watching some of the stuff Rugby AM has on YouTube about the 'veterans' origin game - it's brilliant. I watched interviews with Keith Senior, Robbie Paul, Wally Lewis, James Lowes, and loads of other clips. You can keep your negativity, Saint1, I'm going to join with the Rugby AM boys and get excited about origin. They're doing an awesome job of promoting it and RL in general. That's what I mean about the internet - it makes you feel involved in a way that you never could have been in the past. 

[Luckycreed]

As late as 1988 State if Origin still had not really caught on in Sydney..That year the first game at The Sydney Football Stadium drew 25441 and the third game also in Sydney drew 16 910. This for an event that now routinely pulls 80k in Sydney.

 Through the eighties origin games in Sydney were not filling 40 k capacity stadiums It took  a decade for NSW to really embrace it. 

[Luckycreed]

8 hours ago, 17 stone giant said:

And now the Australian SOO can attract crowds of 80000.  The potential for promoting such a game and  for encouraging people to take an interest and feel part of it, is greater than ever before - thanks mainly to the internet. I was just watching some of the stuff Rugby AM has on YouTube about the 'veterans' origin game - it's brilliant. I watched interviews with Keith Senior, Robbie Paul, Wally Lewis, James Lowes, and loads of other clips. You can keep your negativity, Saint1, I'm going to join with the Rugby AM boys and get excited about origin. They're doing an awesome job of promoting it and RL in general. That's what I mean about the internet - it makes you feel involved in a way that you never could have been in the past. 

It could only work in England if the players really want to play in it and really want to win.If that was the case you get a level of football well above anything club football can spit out and indeed most international football as well  and give it time and Rugby League people will watch in big numbers 

The difficult bit would be getting the players interested so they are not just going through the motions but playing like their lives  depend on it.In Australia QLD were always going to play like that because state loyalty is so strong in the smaller Australian states, but for NSW it was Australian selection that got them motivated.

[17 stone giant]

9 hours ago, Luckycreed said:

It could only work in England if the players really want to play in it and really want to win.If that was the case you get a level of football well above anything club football can spit out and indeed most international football as well  and give it time and Rugby League people will watch in big numbers 

The difficult bit would be getting the players interested so they are not just going through the motions but playing like their lives  depend on it.In Australia QLD were always going to play like that because state loyalty is so strong in the smaller Australian states, but for NSW it was Australian selection that got them motivated.

I think like everything, the more you grow the event, the more those things take care of themselves. It's about building the momentum. If the event could be made a success so that it generated a bit of money, that could be used to reward the players. Money talks, if nothing else. Like you said, it took time to turn the Australian origin into what it is now. You weren't filling 80000 stadiums or taking the games to Perth in the first year. We have all the ingredients we need - it's just whether there's a will to make it work. It's up to RL organisers, players and fans to provide that, and to come up with the ideas and ways of promoting it. If that exists, then you've got a platform to then start trying to attract interest from the rest of the country.

[rhinos78]

Going off the fixture list on the RL website, the second game of the series is being played this sunday at victoria park.

Also England u16's play Wales u16's on saturday according to the Wales RL twitter site

[Auntie Linzi Morris]

2 hours ago, rhinos78 said:

Going off the fixture list on the RL website, the second game of the series is being played this sunday at victoria park.

Also England u16's play Wales u16's on saturday according to the Wales RL twitter site

 

Wales U16s versus England U16s kicks off at 1pm on Saturday 1 September at Llanelli Town FC's ground (Stebonheath Park).

[TboneFromTO]

On 8/3/2018 at 2:13 PM, Saint 1 said:

I now live in Nottingham so would have to travel for it. I'll happily travel for England games, or Saints games. I have 0 inclination to travel back for a game between Yorkshire and Lancashire, a county that St. Helens hasn't been part of since 1974. Just saying that RL fans need to support a rubbish idea isn't going to guilt trip people into doing so, as a concept it has been tried and failed already. 

West and East wouldn't work either, none of these concepts are stuff that people care about. Origin works in Australia because being from Queensland is a fundamental part of their identity in a way that being part of a town which happened to leave Lancashire 20 years before I was born isn't. The only one that would potentially work is North vs South, but then you run into the problem of varying strength teams again.

The first ever State of Origin crowd was 33k. From 1901, not a single Lancashire Yorkshire game has drawn even half of that. Hardly screams that it is a concept we need to revisit. Talking about capacity crowds and it being a spectacle is fantasy. Marketing is not a catch-all solution and even if it was, it's better off starting by marketing a better idea i.e. actual internationals and important club games. 

In the last 5 years, we've drawn 21k for England vs Scotland, 25k for England vs Fiji, 25k for England vs Ireland, 22k for England vs France. You say stop being negative but that is exactly what you are doing with actual internationals which in the last 5 years have on multiple occasions topped every single Lancashire vs Yorkshire attendance in history. If we're going to invest time and effort into something, why not make it 1) a match that the rest of the country actually care about 2) a match that hasn't been tried and failed multiple times already 3) a match that doesn't rely on essentially making up what one of the teams now represents. 

 

I have no skin in this game, but I do have an opinion.

Any chance to have the best of an areas young players from across multiple clubs play against the same from another area will only improve ANY sport.  More of this stuff is good.

Don't know if this stuff is viable at the professional level, but senior amature and juniors? Absolutely.

It doesn't ALWAYS have to be about crowds

[Lowdesert]

44 minutes ago, Auntie Linzi Morris said:

 

Wales U16s versus England U16s kicks off at 1pm on Saturday 1 September at Llanelli Town FC's ground (Stebonheath Park).

Have you got the Welsh team?  Just interested to see the Hull lads.

[Auntie Linzi Morris]

2 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Have you got the Welsh team?  Just interested to see the Hull lads.

The 29 man Welsh squad contains two Welsh based Hull players and can be viewed here

The England squad is:

Danny Attley (Leeds)

Harry Anderson (Leeds)

Harry Shackleton (Bradford)

Iwan Stephens (Leeds)

Jack Bibby (Wigan)

Jacob Dugdale (Widnes)

James Patrickson (Wakefield)

Joe Barnes (Warrington)

Joe Burton (Leeds)

Jude Ferreira (Hull)

Jumah Sambou (St Helens)

Kai Tyson (Hull)

Lewis Baxter (St Helens)

Nathan Carter (Castleford)

Nathan Clemmitt (Newcastle)

Oli Burton (Leeds)

Robson Stevens (Newcastle)

Will Tate (Hull)

[Lowdesert]

31 minutes ago, Auntie Linzi Morris said:

The 29 man Welsh squad contains two Welsh based Hull players and can be viewed here

The England squad is:

Danny Attley (Leeds)

Harry Anderson (Leeds)

Harry Shackleton (Bradford)

Iwan Stephens (Leeds)

Jack Bibby (Wigan)

Jacob Dugdale (Widnes)

James Patrickson (Wakefield)

Joe Barnes (Warrington)

Joe Burton (Leeds)

Jude Ferreira (Hull)

Jumah Sambou (St Helens)

Kai Tyson (Hull)

Lewis Baxter (St Helens)

Nathan Carter (Castleford)

Nathan Clemmitt (Newcastle)

Oli Burton (Leeds)

Robson Stevens (Newcastle)

Will Tate (Hull)

Thanks.  The full game on their too.

[rhinos78]

50 minutes ago, Auntie Linzi Morris said:

The 29 man Welsh squad contains two Welsh based Hull players and can be viewed here

The England squad is:

Danny Attley (Leeds)

Harry Anderson (Leeds)

Harry Shackleton (Bradford)

Iwan Stephens (Leeds)

Jack Bibby (Wigan)

Jacob Dugdale (Widnes)

James Patrickson (Wakefield)

Joe Barnes (Warrington)

Joe Burton (Leeds)

Jude Ferreira (Hull)

Jumah Sambou (St Helens)

Kai Tyson (Hull)

Lewis Baxter (St Helens)

Nathan Carter (Castleford)

Nathan Clemmitt (Newcastle)

Oli Burton (Leeds)

Robson Stevens (Newcastle)

Will Tate (Hull)

A lot of changes to the England squad from the one that played France a couple of month ago. From the Leeds lads, Joe Burtons a superb center, Oli Burtons Joes twin brother and plays hooker,  iwan Stephens is a pacey fullback and son of former Wales union fly half Colin Stephens and Harry Anderson is a tall stand off whos got all the skills and is very highly rated. Not sure what the situation is with Danny Attley as he wasnt announced by the club as one who got an academy contract. Nathan Carter from Cas is a Quality backrower and deffinatly one to keep an eye, there were rumours NRL clubs were interested in him.

[Dunbar]

The Australian Schoolboys squad below

http://websites.sportstg.com/assoc_page.cgi?client=0-2130-0-0-0&sID=26416&&news_task=DETAIL&articleID=62718049

Any of our Australian friends seen these lads play - will be good to know if there is another Latrell Mitchell or Nick Cotric lurking in there (although that would not be so good for England!)

Max	Altus	Farrer Memorial Agricultural College, Tamworth
Jalal	Bazzaz	Illawarra Sports High School, Berkeley
Bradman	Best	Brisbane Waters Secondary College, Woy Woy
Zac	Cini	St Dominic's College, Penrith
Juwan	Compain	Palm Beach Currumbin State High School, Gold Coast
Stephen	Crichton	Patrician Brothers College, Blacktown
Harry	Croker	Taree High School, Taree
Tom	Dearden	Palm Beach Currumbin State High School, Gold Coast
Matthew	Doorey	Westfields Sports High School, Fairfield West
Matthew	Dragisic	Marist College, Canberra
Ryan	Gray	De La Salle College, Revesby Heights
Jock	Madden	All Saints College, Maitland
Luca	Moretti	Waverley College, Waverley
Ratu	Nanovo	Cambridge Park High School, Cambridge Park
Tesi	Niu	Marsden State High School, Logan
Franklin	Pele	Endeavour Sports High School, Caringbah
Jason	Saab	Westfields Sports High School, Fairfield West
Tommy	Talau	Westfields Sports High School, Fairfield West
Jayden	Tanner	Patrician Brothers College, Blacktown
Beni	Teaupa	Holy Cross College, Ryde
Star	To'a	Newcastle High School, Newcastle
Bronson	Xerri	Endeavour Sports High School, Caringbah