Martyn Sadler

[JohnM]

In my view, It'd take a great leap of faith and  a long term approach for any merger to work.  A good few fans would walk away, though new younger ones less wedded to history, would come along if the merged club was significantly more successful on the field and significantly financially better off. Would have to look at double funding and double salary cap for two merged clubs, for example, for maybe three years then tapering for another three. Like that would happen!

[M j M]

New stadia have to be appropriate in size and design and well located if they are to get the approval of fans.

J32 is a long way from Wheldon Rd but it's well connected and completely familiar to everyone who lives locally as a place to go for leisure activities. In contrast I could never get my head around the Newcold location for Trinity - it just seems inconvenient and odd but I'm sure there is a logic to it.

The best of all worlds is probably redeveloping the existing stadia but this seems to be beyond both clubs.

[ojx]

1 minute ago, JohnM said:

In my view, It'd take a great leap of faith and  a long term approach for any merger to work.  A good few fans would walk away, though new younger ones less wedded to history, would come along if the merged club was significantly more successful on the field and significantly financially better off. Would have to look at double funding and double salary cap for two merged clubs, for example, for maybe three years then tapering for another three. Like that would happen!

This is exactly what Elstone said on backchat. Mergers have to be looked at in the long run of 10+ years later. You have to accept that a large portion of the existing fan bases would disappear and have to grow a new market.  This has been the case in the NRL and also in Welsh RU that essentially merged old historic clubs to form the regional teams. Maybe not double funding, but perhaps 1.5 times the funding.

[ojx]

12 minutes ago, Michael1812 said:

I’d also rather go to one of those grounds than the modern stadia. 

All I need is a standing spot to watch the game and relatively quick access to beer.

[jpmc]

The best solution would be for the council to gift Featherstone Rovers £5 million to finish POR off, then the council build a £20 million Stadium that both Wakefield & Castleford can pay rent to play in

[David Shepherd]

4 minutes ago, jpmc said:

The best solution would be for the council to gift Featherstone Rovers £5 million to finish POR off, then the council build a £20 million Stadium that both Wakefield & Castleford can pay rent to play in

The council doesn't have £25 Million.  It probably did before they lost the district's reserves in Iceland 10 years ago.

It'd be a tough sell to spend such an amount in these austere times.

Anyhow, dear leader is a big Cas fan (having worked at WMDC, I can think of a few more names for him too). A conspiracy theorist might take this information and then wonder why the council never tried to intervene when the Newcold developer shafted Trinity.

[David Shepherd]

Re mergers.  Said it before, the head thinks it's a good idea.  A combined WMDC area team would be an absolute beast, with all the local talent we have.  It's a genuine Rugby League hotbed.

The heart says no way will I join with those Cas and Wakey ###k##s

If it happened, I'd probably sulk for 15 years or so, but something would come along and re-spark my interest.  I guess I'll have grandchildren by then.

The only way I see it happening and working is if the three clubs remained, sat underneath the "big" club.  Being a member/ST Holder of one, would need to automatically make you a member/ST Holder of all.

In much the same way as Pontefract has shifted it allegiance towards Cas over the last 20 years, it'd probably take that long for there to be a critical mass that supported the joined team.

Will it happen?  Doubt it. 

 

[jpmc]

4 minutes ago, David Shepherd said:

The council doesn't have £25 Million.  It probably did before they lost the district's reserves in Iceland 10 years ago.

It'd be a tough sell to spend such an amount in these austere times.

Anyhow, dear leader is a big Cas fan (having worked at WMDC, I can think of a few more names for him too). A conspiracy theorist might take this information and then wonder why the council never tried to intervene when the Newcold developer shafted Trinity.

My understand was that the sale of land in Leigh payed for the LSV Stadium to be built,why cant the same be done in the Wakefield dtstrict ?

Anothe avenue would be to ask other councils for loans repayable at extraordinarily good rates,I believe wigan council do this instead of fixing potholes.

[David Shepherd]

3 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

They couldn't. Green bay are the team forms huge geographical area in a country used to driving vast distances for things like sports events Green bays market isn't green bay or even Wisconsin it's a large part if the Midwest. 

Fevs problem is almost entirely the opposite. They are a small town in an urban area surrounded by other bigger clubs with bigger catchements in bigger towns and cities.

Green bays problem was getting people from Milwaukee and the rest of the mid west to travel to green bay to watch the packers. 

Fevs problem isn't getting people to travel to fev anymore that Leeds is getting people.to travel to headingley or Wakefield to agbrigg. It's getting people who have no affiliation to Fev and have very little.other reason to go there, to go to Fev instead of Leeds or Wakefield or Cas 

Not often I agree with stuff you post Scotchy, but the comparison with The Packers is daft.

The only point of difference I have is with your small town assertion.  Traditionally, we are Pontefract's team.  When you add in Pontefract, Featherston, Ackworth and SESKU, our catchment is at least as large as Castleford's.  They seem to do OK.

If we'd managed to get into SL in 1998, I'm certain our crowds would now be in the same ballpark as theirs.

Small pit village is and always was a red herring.

 

[Man of Kent]

8 minutes ago, David Shepherd said:

Will it happen?  Doubt it. 

Nope. Wakey’s Wakey, Cas is Cas. The fans would stick a merger up their ass.

[David Shepherd]

7 minutes ago, jpmc said:

My understand was that the sale of land in Leigh payed for the LSV Stadium to be built,why cant the same be done in the Wakefield dtstrict ?

Anothe avenue would be to ask other councils for loans repayable at extraordinarily good rates,I believe wigan council do this instead of fixing potholes.

What land would WMDC sell?  None of the three stadiums are owned by WMDC.  The three combined stadiums and the land around will come nowhere near £25M.  Belle Vue is owned by Bank of Ireland, what's in it for them?

[Agbrigg]

3 minutes ago, David Shepherd said:

Not often I agree with stuff you post Scotchy, but the comparison with The Packers is daft.

The only point of difference I have is with your small town assertion.  Traditionally, we are Pontefract's team.  When you add in Pontefract, Featherston, Ackworth and SESKU, our catchment is at least as large as Castleford's.  They seem to do OK.

If we'd managed to get into SL in 1998, I'm certain our crowds would now be in the same ballpark as theirs.

Small pit village is and always was a red herring.

 

Yes, if but or whatever. You are where you are and since this thread has been running a mate of mine down cas tells me there is plenty of talk about mark Campbell pulling the plug. Puts another twist on things all together if true. Already mentioned on the cas forum ,just wondering what you have heard yourself.

[jpmc]

2 minutes ago, David Shepherd said:

What land would WMDC sell?  None of the three stadiums are owned by WMDC.  The three combined stadiums and the land around will come nowhere near £25M.  Belle Vue is owned by Bank of Ireland, what's in it for them?

Withe no evidence at all ill guarantee Wakefield council own literally acres and acres of land all over the district

[MZH]

1 hour ago, M j M said:

In terms of new vs old stadia and the empty seat factor it's worth remembering what the stadia criteria were in the original licensing system:

• Teams will get one point for having a stadium with a capacity of 12,000 or more.
• Another point will be awarded if the ground meets the standards of a premier competition in the 21st century.
• Another point will be awarded if stadiums are operating at 40 per cent capacity.

That third one was important, if not a bit underdone in my view (50% at least should be the target);  the gameday experience at places like Huddersfield is severely lacking because the ground is inappropriate to the size of the club and there is no doubt this has an impact both on whether people want to go there AND whether Sky want to televise games there.

The 40% thing just rewards clubs for having no ambition. Built small tin pot stadiums and try to make them look good on tv but dont do anything to actually grow attendances. As long as there arent many empty seats for the cameras to pick up then thats alright.

 

[jpmc]

2 minutes ago, Agbrigg said:

Yes, if but or whatever. You are where you are and since this thread has been running a mate of mine down cas tells me there is plenty of talk about mark Campbell pulling the plug. Puts another twist on things all together if true. Already mentioned on the cas forum ,just wondering what you have heard yourself.

Hr's opted to go with York then should they get promoted ?

[JohnM]

39 minutes ago, ojx said:

All I need is a standing spot to watch the game and relatively quick access to beer.

Its not about you, though, with respect. Its about those who dont go,

[David Shepherd]

2 minutes ago, Agbrigg said:

Yes, if but or whatever. You are where you are and since this thread has been running a mate of mine down cas tells me there is plenty of talk about mark Campbell pulling the plug. Puts another twist on things all together if true. Already mentioned on the cas forum ,just wondering what you have heard yourself.

Yep, heard it.  It was started by Fev fans who are naturally a bit worried about the future.  Especially as Mark has an interest in York too.

Reliably informed by a mate who's out in Toronto that chatting over several beers after Saturday's game with MC and Longo, we've nothing to worry about and it's very much business as usual next year.

We'll see what happens.

[M j M]

16 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

The new cold location is relatively easy for away fans being just off the motorway and would have opened up A lot of South Leeds to them.  

I find that hard to believe - I doubt many people in South Leeds would look to go to a field adjacent to the M62 for their sporting enjoyment, especially people who have a Leeds identity not a Wakefield one.

The ease for away fans is a bit irrelevant in my view - how convenient and appealing is it for home fans?

[M j M]

5 minutes ago, MZH said:

The 40% thing just rewards clubs for having no ambition. Built small tin pot stadiums and try to make them look good on tv but dont do anything to actually grow attendances. As long as there arent many empty seats for the cameras to pick up then thats alright.

If you say so. I think given that we know Sky don't like to televise games at deserted stadia it is an important consideration. The licencing criteria got you every way - average attendance, minimum stadium size, stadium quality and crowd percentage of capacity. Hit all four and you are a genuinely elite club adding to the comp.

[Padge]

27 minutes ago, jpmc said:

My understand was that the sale of land in Leigh payed for the LSV Stadium to be built,why cant the same be done in the Wakefield dtstrict ?

Anothe avenue would be to ask other councils for loans repayable at extraordinarily good rates,I believe wigan council do this instead of fixing potholes.

Leigh was a very complicated funding mix, with the former Horwich loco RMI soccer team, Leigh East BARLA team and Leigh RL using the land they had or leased to help fund it. The LSV project had a lot of EU funding and various government development grants and the Dept. of Education also throwing money into the pot. Add in a supermarket chain and hotel chain getting the rights to  build along side the stadium. The final piece of the jigsaw was a private housing development company being given permission to build along side. The council funding was mainly just down to be being a facilitator, then actually owning the facilities and leasing/renting back to the various sports clubs involved.

It was a very complicated deal that pulled it all together, but the final product is a very nice facility for amateur, semi-professional and professional sport in the town.

[MZH]

13 minutes ago, M j M said:

If you say so. I think given that we know Sky don't like to televise games at deserted stadia it is an important consideration. The licencing criteria got you every way - average attendance, minimum stadium size, stadium quality and crowd percentage of capacity. Hit all four and you are a genuinely elite club adding to the comp.

I Guess. I'm just not sure there should be any reward for clubs getting 5k in a 12k stadium. And if you are building a stadium at 12k it is just kind of condemning the club and the sport to always being small time. If you start selling it out, then what?

[M j M]

2 minutes ago, MZH said:

I Guess. I'm just not sure there should be any reward for clubs getting 5k in a 12k stadium. And if you are building a stadium at 12k it is just kind of condemning the club and the sport to always being small time. If you start selling it out, then what? 

I agree, I think the %age should have been higher. Although it would have started to catch Wigan out after a while so needed to be done with a bit of care

[Michael1812]

When I think about the possibility of Toronto getting promoted and the new grounds I could visit, my top pick would be the Jungle. 

Why do people dislike it so much?

[M j M]

7 minutes ago, Michael1812 said:

When I think about the possibility of Toronto getting promoted and the new grounds I could visit, my top pick would be the Jungle. 

Why do people dislike it so much? 

In part because they lost their own historic grounds to developers/bankruptcy, had to move to flatpacks/football stadia and are bitter that other clubs remain in theirs - and definitely get a competitive advantage from it.

And some people have real complaints about the toilets and stuff, which is fair enough.

[MADREDNIGE]

7 minutes ago, Michael1812 said:

When I think about the possibility of Toronto getting promoted and the new grounds I could visit, my top pick would be the Jungle. 

Why do people dislike it so much?

Cos it's run down and the main stand as asbestos in it, shame they can't do it up because overall it could be a decent ground and their history is there.