Would It Help Leeds To Be Relegated?

[Harry Stottle]

16 minutes ago, Wolford6 said:

Me too.

However, the game needs the big clubs to keep afloat and in the public eye.

In another place, Burnley are in Europe. Great for the club and for many fans in Yorkshire, but I don't suppose they'll shift many shirts in China and India.

In Yorkshire, OK forgot no footballl teams (of note) in your county.

[Spidey]

4 minutes ago, Scubby said:

You say that but when Rangers imploded everyone had a good laugh for a while. Then when the reality kicked in and the top division struggled and the sponsorship failed to flow, everyone got a dose of reality. Now Rangers are back it has been one step forward and three steps back for the sport up there.

Basically they are trying to recoup the millions lost across the game from one massive side eating humble pie. SL simply cannot afford to do that with its richest clubs.

I think Scottish Football isn’t a realistic comparison where there are only 2 big clubs

So if SL can’t afford to lose them and Leeds finished in a relegation spot after the 8s should SL give them a reprieve? What would do more damage Leeds being relegated or changing the rules to suit and damaging the integrity of the competition?

[Harry Stottle]

6 minutes ago, Scubby said:

You say that but when Rangers imploded everyone had a good laugh for a while. Then when the reality kicked in and the top division struggled and the sponsorship failed to flow, everyone got a dose of reality. Now Rangers are back it has been one step forward and three steps back for the sport up there.

Basically they are trying to recoup the millions lost across the game from one massive side eating humble pie. SL simply cannot afford to do that with its richest clubs.

Maybe not, but it don't half make it very entertaining, can't see them myself going down, but as I have said throughout the 8's structure any SL team that gets relegated have only themselves to blame, they should not be cosseted ir pampered.

[Scubby]

7 minutes ago, Spidey said:

I think Scottish Football isn’t a realistic comparison where there are only 2 big clubs

So if SL can’t afford to lose them and Leeds finished in a relegation spot after the 8s should SL give them a reprieve? What would do more damage Leeds being relegated or changing the rules to suit and damaging the integrity of the competition?

Nope I am not saying pull up the draw bridge. What I am saying is that for two years running the game and its formula has created the possibility of the two clubs with the highest turnovers falling out of the league. If Catalans had gone last year that is 13 Saturday home games lost to Sky viewers aside for the damage to the game in France. If Leeds go that is 200,000 fans lost to SL and tonnes in hospitality and corporate sponsorship.

When we have clubs like Salford and Wakefield existing purely on TV money, the game hasn't got any like for like replacement. Imagine trying to sell a Leeds-less SL to Sky in a negotiating round and see what figure they come up with. Leigh averaged 6k last year and now they will be a part time team rather than trying to fill LSV as a SL club.

It is what is it but the game is trying extremely hard to kick itself in the nuts at present. 

[DavidM]

There’s no big clubs football wise in Scotland . There’s a dominant club who’s a big fish in a tiny puddle 

[Wolford6]

21 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

In Yorkshire, OK forgot no footballl teams (of note) in your county.

Most people in Keighley and Skipton support Burnley.

Last season, I stopped supporting Cardiff (not that I'd been to watch them for over 20 years) because they appeared on the telly without a single Welsh player in the eighteen. Naturally, they immediately got to the Premiership.

I now count myself as an honorary Burnley supporter. A very close friend who was a Turf Moor fanatic died a few years ago, so I've picked up his baton.

[Forever Trinity]

12 hours ago, Scubby said:

No, SL simply cannot afford to lose 200,000 spectators. It wouldn't be good for anyone. You could have said exactly the same about Catalans last season. A new coach and some shrewd signings can change everything.

We are falling behind rival competitions as it is. We don't need to punish the game further just because it humbles the competition's highest grossing team.

So if Leeds are relegated you expect a rule change then? No problem for any other SL team to be relegated then? esp Salford or Widnes. Bradford went and HKR have gone previously if Leeds aint good enough they aint good enough. Its not often they find themselves struggling but the rules are rules, Anyway for what it is worth I think they are in for some real battles in the Qualifiers for Super League, its not a given they will stay up if I was a Leeds fan on current form I would be very worried.

[Scubby]

15 minutes ago, Forever Trinity said:

So if Leeds are relegated you expect a rule change then? No problem for any other SL team to be relegated then? esp Salford or Widnes. Bradford went and HKR have gone previously if Leeds aint good enough they aint good enough. Its not often they find themselves struggling but the rules are rules, Anyway for what it is worth I think they are in for some real battles in the Qualifiers for Super League, its not a given they will stay up if I was a Leeds fan on current form I would be very worried.

Read my last post I am not saying that. Wakefield and Salford and Widnes get £1.9m Sky money a year because Catalans (13 home games), Leeds/Wigan/Saints/Warrington/Hull provide high profile fixtures and feel to SL.

Do you not accept that the £200m Sky deal is directly correlated to the value that the likes of Leeds, Wigan and Saints bring to SL? If Wigan, Leeds and Catalans were in the Championship, replaced by Halifax, Featherstone and Leigh and the TV negotiations were coming around - how much would be on the table? People just need to smell the coffee rather than simply think through the lens of how it will affect my club.

Losing Leigh from SL cost the game £500k in parachute money which ultimately got ###### away on players who didn't perform. That is 8 development officers for 2 years.

[Spidey]

25 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Nope I am not saying pull up the draw bridge. What I am saying is that for two years running the game and its formula has created the possibility of the two clubs with the highest turnovers falling out of the league. If Catalans had gone last year that is 13 Saturday home games lost to Sky viewers aside for the damage to the game in France. If Leeds go that is 200,000 fans lost to SL and tonnes in hospitality and corporate sponsorship.

When we have clubs like Salford and Wakefield existing purely on TV money, the game hasn't got any like for like replacement. Imagine trying to sell a Leeds-less SL to Sky in a negotiating round and see what figure they come up with. Leigh averaged 6k last year and now they will be a part time team rather than trying to fill LSV as a SL club.

It is what is it but the game is trying extremely hard to kick itself in the nuts at present. 

My point would be that it’s not the system causing this but the clubs themselves. With all their resources why are Leeds finishing in the bottom four? 

Its easy to point the finger at the system, but clubs need to be accountable for their own performances. Blame Leeds for being rubbish, not the system or the RFL etc. Up to the rest to fill the void, not to be so reliant on other clubs

[Forever Trinity]

in all honesty the game needs to look outside of Sky I binned it off years ago and have no interest in getting it back, I listen to games on the radio which for me is much more enjoyable, Eddie Hemmings et al are killing the game.

The lazy bone idle leaders in the game need to get off their backsides and get selling the game wider instead of keeping in the Sky trough its done more damage than good to the game. As for the sky money the game would reflect the cash available if that meant part time so be it.

[Scubby]

3 minutes ago, Spidey said:

My point would be that it’s not the system causing this but the clubs themselves. With all their resources why are Leeds finishing in the bottom four? 

Its easy to point the finger at the system, but clubs need to be accountable for their own performances. Blame Leeds for being rubbish, not the system or the RFL etc. Up to the rest to fill the void, not to be so reliant on other clubs

I don't know if it is true, but if the answer to your first question was that they were cutting their cloth to invest 10s of millions on their stadium to help generate millions in the future - how would that sit? Especially with some clubs just existing with Sky money to pay for their squads and not spending a penny of infrastructure.

I am no Leeds fan or a fan of any SL club for that matter. I just want the game I love to be as big as it can be. From the outside we are contriving to contract it. Just an opinion.

[Wolford6]

2 minutes ago, Forever Trinity said:

in all honesty the game needs to look outside of Sky I binned it off years ago and have no interest in getting it back, I listen to games on the radio which for me is much more enjoyable, Eddie Hemmings et al are killing the game.

 

Channel 4 is moving up north. What better way to announce the shift than by screening the Greatest Game.

[Tommygilf]

47 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Thanks for the honesty Tommy.

No problem. I don't know what really lies behind it. Perhaps its snobbery - as by contrast I can see plenty of Leeds fans travelling to Toronto as they already do for Catalans. By contrast selling a Sunday afternoon or trans M62 on a friday night at *insert northern English town team* just isn't as appealing to a lot of Leeds' demographic.

 

[Tommygilf]

3 minutes ago, Forever Trinity said:

in all honesty the game needs to look outside of Sky I binned it off years ago and have no interest in getting it back, I listen to games on the radio which for me is much more enjoyable, Eddie Hemmings et al are killing the game.

The lazy bone idle leaders in the game need to get off their backsides and get selling the game wider instead of keeping in the Sky trough its done more damage than good to the game. As for the sky money the game would reflect the cash available if that meant part time so be it.

I don't think thats realistic though. What I do think is realistic is Selling Sky 4 SL games a week, whilst the other 2 are on FTA or another broadcaster. Our problem with sky has been our lack of dynamic thinking when it comes to contracts. Plus we should be pushing sky to advertise the game more. The amount of adverts i see for "summer of sport" showcasing 3 union games, English cricket and golf. Super League should be a premium summer product for Sky.

[Oxford]

Would It Help Leeds To Be Relegated?

 

No, because being relegated never helps any club.

[jpmc]

17 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Would It Help Leeds To Be Relegated?

 

No, because being relegated never helps any club.

I disagree with this.

HKR are a  better club now compared to the last few years because it helped to refocused Hudgells mind.

Bradford are now a much more stable club compared to the last decade or more.

It didnt do Cas,Huddersfield or Salford any harm either

[fevtom]

Would Bradford v Leeds in the championship be the biggest crowd of the regular season? I imagine it would be bigger than 99% of Super League games.

[Roy Haggerty]

Look, as a Saints fan, I enjoy Leeds' strife, naturally.

But if we lost them from the top flight there is no disguising it would be an absolutely catastrophic disaster for the game of rugby league. Our biggest, richest, best-supported, most high-profile club. One of only two high-profile big cities in the top flight (Hull being the other). Also one of our very few hotbeds of talent production. We'd put all that at risk?

I'm a fan of expansion, and I would love to see Toronto, London and Toulouse all joining the top flight. But at the expense of Leeds? Not a chance. 

Top-flight RL needs MORE clubs the size of Leeds. Not fewer.
 

[Scubby]

19 minutes ago, jpmc said:

I disagree with this.

HKR are a  better club now compared to the last few years because it helped to refocused Hudgells mind.

Bradford are now a much more stable club compared to the last decade or more.

It didnt do Cas,Huddersfield or Salford any harm either

Credit to them but, with respect, neither you nor I have seen Hull KR's balance sheet. They turnover less than half of what Leeds do and, guess what, they could be back in the Championship in a couple of months.

[Spidey]

52 minutes ago, Scubby said:

I don't know if it is true, but if the answer to your first question was that they were cutting their cloth to invest 10s of millions on their stadium to help generate millions in the future - how would that sit? Especially with some clubs just existing with Sky money to pay for their squads and not spending a penny of infrastructure.

I am no Leeds fan or a fan of any SL club for that matter. I just want the game I love to be as big as it can be. From the outside we are contriving to contract it. Just an opinion.

I think we all want the game to do well, but if the game can’t afford to have a certain team relegated maybe the that consequence needs to be removed. It’s all well and good saying Salford, Widnes, Wakefield etc can go down, but it’s a sporting competition, any club should be a winner or loser, regardless of anything else

[Oxford]

20 minutes ago, jpmc said:

or Salford any harm either

Yes it has and continues to do so, but disagreement in any family is the way things move forward.

[Scubby]

17 minutes ago, Spidey said:

I think we all want the game to do well, but if the game can’t afford to have a certain team relegated maybe the that consequence needs to be removed. It’s all well and good saying Salford, Widnes, Wakefield etc can go down, but it’s a sporting competition, any club should be a winner or loser, regardless of anything else

I don't think anyone should go down if you want my honest opinion mate. The system stinks, SL should be nurturing and growing. Salford, Widnes and Hull KR being in this car crash every year is doing nothing to grow these clubs. Even finishing 9th/10th is now considered a disastrous season - which is nuts in a 12-team comp!

[Chrispmartha]

4 minutes ago, Scubby said:

I don't think anyone should go down if you want my honest opinion mate. The system stinks, SL should be nurturing and growing. Salford, Widnes and Hull KR being in this car crash every year is doing nothing to grow these clubs. Even finishing 10th is now considered a disastrous season - which is nuts in a 12-team comp!

Totally agree and not just because my club is in the middle 8s. IMHO its creating jeopardy for too many clubs just for the sake of trying to make the sport seem competitive across the board, all it does is create uncertainty for 8 teams in the middle of the season resulting in panic buying, which not many clubs can afford and clubs not being able to plan correctly for the future.

If we have to have P&R then it should be either bottom team down top team up, it may not have been as exciting but both Widnes and Toronto would know their situation in advance and plan accordingly.

If the MPG (way to undersell our sport by the way) has to stay could it not be a straight playoff between top and bottom or have the top 4 championship to haves semifinals and then the winner meets the bottom of SL.

 

Personally I don't mind franchising but I can see why in this country that's not a popular option.

 

What must happen is any SL team should run a reserve side as standard, DR is a stupid idea and doesn't help anyone in the long run.

[jpmc]

14 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Yes it has and continues to do so, but disagreement in any family is the way things move forward.

How are you making the connection with Salford being relegated over a decade ago and their problems today? 

[Oxford]

11 minutes ago, jpmc said:

How are you making the connection with Salford being relegated over a decade ago and their problems today? 

Okay, you have to connect all the dots on this one including the Stadium, the way they were cheated over the SL rules etc that insisted on everyone but some having one. And they are all connected to SL being the only place to be and everything else being discounted all of it has affected SRD's relationship with the City and with its supporters. Other clubs are and have been affected in other, but no less tangible ways. not all of which are apparent.

Bit of a Tuesday must be Belgium ride there, trying to avoid going over board in old hat stuff.