Marwan's fixture proposal

[Rupert Prince]

15 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Playing 6 sides 3 times and 6 sides 2 times boring, too repetitive. 

playing 8 sides 3 times and 4 sides 2 times, with three of them playing for nothing in the last third of the season as they have already qualified. Exciting. 

There are a million and one different options for the fixture format all with their positives and negatives, none of them addressing the actual problems the game faces. All of them attempting to cover cracks with paper. 

Yes.

[Rupert Prince]

15 hours ago, TboneFromTO said:

I'd go further and just reset to 0 ala the qualifiers, where the top teams just get the home turf advantage.  Proper second season stuff!

That or have a playoff bracket (1v8, 2v7, 3v6, 4v5). Maybe home and away series?  Highest remaining seed always plays the lowest remaining seed (keep the qualifiers for the bottom 4)

Did you used to work at Bletchley Park?

Get real people. 12(?) teams. Top 5 playoff.

[Rupert Prince]

1 hour ago, JM2010 said:

It's probably irrelevant anyway as it looks like the 8s aren't going to be around from next season

Correct. Wild card for Widnes?

[TboneFromTO]

25 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

Did you used to work at Bletchley Park?

Get real people. 12(?) teams. Top 5 playoff.

But I realllly like the qualifiers.  I don't particularly mind what happens at the top, although I have preferences obviously,. Just keep the middle 8s or some form of it!

[Rupert Prince]

1 hour ago, TboneFromTO said:

But I realllly like the qualifiers.  I don't particularly mind what happens at the top, although I have preferences obviously,. Just keep the middle 8s or some form of it!

Maybe you do like the qualifiers but the system that bankrupts the losers and cripples the game is a sick joke. 

And it is a sick joke when it's possible for all 4 bottom SL clubs to finish top 4 in these so called qualifiers, but still one of them has to play off with the team they have already beaten, a club which is by definition is in the bottom half of the table. All you are qualifying for is a game of Russian  Roulette .

Get rid.

[TboneFromTO]

1 hour ago, Rupert Prince said:

Maybe you do like the qualifiers but the system that bankrupts the losers and cripples the game is a sick joke. 

And it is a sick joke when it's possible for all 4 bottom SL clubs to finish top 4 in these so called qualifiers, but still one of them has to play off with the team they have already beaten, a club which is by definition is in the bottom half of the table. All you are qualifying for is a game of Russian  Roulette .

Get rid.

The competition doesnt bankrupt them irresponsible spending does.   

If Halifax can make the qualifiers spending a quarter of the super league salary cap then your theory doesn't sit quite right with me

[Rupert Prince]

29 minutes ago, TboneFromTO said:

The competition doesnt bankrupt them irresponsible spending does.   

If Halifax can make the qualifiers spending a quarter of the super league salary cap then your theory doesn't sit quite right with me

Turning over 33% potential teams is risible. And if its unlikely to be promoted because a team is inadequate then what is the point?

What is the point of a quick bit of gratification for a year  only to be replaced  by the one that was sent down the previous year.

This is just a 3 ring circus run by coco the clown.

[TboneFromTO]

Well I'm sure the theory is once your up you get more funding and can there for compete at the higher level. 

If the turn over is really that high (has there ever been a year where 4 switched?), then there must be enough room for more teams in the super league and for it to remain competitive. 

 To me, with the amount of money super league teams get over their championship competitors no one should be relegated ever (unless someone magically gets a rich backer ala twp). Teams who get relegated have only their executives, their coaches and their players to blame (and they should apologize to their fans profusely for it).  Your issues stem from bad ownership.

The exception for my never relegated theory would be from the MPG.

[Liverpool Rover]

Maybe it would be better if the super 8 teams just carried over the points they earned against the other teams in the super 8s.

Anyway it is a ridiculous system which creates too much uncertainty in terms of future planning and clubs have had to wait until last week in terms of selling hospitality packages etc for what is the business end of the season.

12 teams with top 5 playoffs at the end. It isn't rocket science.

[DEANO]

Whilst we’re been ridiculous why don’t the bottom four play off to join the middle four to play off to make the top five who can then play off to find a winner then everyone has a chance to win

[TboneFromTO]

3 minutes ago, DEANO said:

Whilst we’re been ridiculous why don’t the bottom four play off to join the middle four to play off to make the top five who can then play off to find a winner then everyone has a chance to win

Sounds like the plot to Inception! I like it 

 

Have you seen the movie "baseketball" (by the south park creators). Their play off bracket sounds like your idea

 

[Guest]

Its a part of RL history.. Lets all move on.

[Gorbals]

I don't mind MK's proposal. Can I throw my own in? Not worth a new thread but would appreciate feedback, or you can just abuse and deride me if you prefer.

An 18 team Superleague! But kind of with an intrinsic 8's element. The top 9 (based on the previous season finish) play each other H&A and each of the bottom 9 either H or A (and the reverse for the previous season's bottom 9). That's 25 (11 or 12 at home) games with a MW. Finish with a top 4,5,6 whatever playoff. 1 up 1 down with the "non league"

Would probably require a decent London and would have to accept clubs like Halifax, Featherstone etc. potentially. Ideally Bradford would get their s**t together too

There are top tier leagues in European football where there are massive discrepancies between the top and bottom clubs in terms of stadiums, attendances and likelihood of success. Sit a club like Halifax at the top table and they could turn in a 4 or 5k average fairly quickly I reckon. Within a few years, who knows?  

RL could do with a few more solid "filler" clubs and they could come from towns like Halifax, Rochdale and Oldham etc.

 

[Wholly Trinity]

I know I keep going on about this and it's most likely moot since the 8s seem destined to the history books, but one more time...

Saints get the league leaders shield after 23 round

The next 7 rounds decide the premiership

The top four play-off to reach the GF & a chance of the championship

To give a fresh start to the 8s, everything but the points advantage from the weekly rounds is zeroed (includng points difference), so Saints start with 21 points, Wakefield and Catalans on 0.

3 points for a win in each of the 7 rounds makes it possible to move up the table if you can perform against the top teams at the business end of the season, which I see as just reward.

I include the current table and the table with the proposed format.With 3 points for a win, top 4 and even Saints lead is not unassailable with a possible 18 points still up for grabs.. 

[DEANO]

9 hours ago, TboneFromTO said:

Sounds like the plot to Inception! I like it 

 

Have you seen the movie "baseketball" (by the south park creators). Their play off bracket sounds like your idea

 

Quality 

[bobbruce]

After 23 rounds reset all points to 0. Then have the reward for how high you finish is you play at home to every team that is below you at round 23. So Saints would play every game at home, Wigan would play every game except Saints at home. Warrington every game except Saints and Wigan at home. All the way down to Catalan who would play all their matches away. 

[M j M]

1 hour ago, bobbruce said:

After 23 rounds reset all points to 0. Then have the reward for how high you finish is you play at home to every team that is below you at round 23. So Saints would play every game at home, Wigan would play every game except Saints at home. Warrington every game except Saints and Wigan at home. All the way down to Catalan who would play all their matches away.  

Well that sounds like a recipe for a financially viable league.

[DEANO]

Just had a eureka moment. 12 teams. 22 matches. Top team crowned champions bottom team relegated. Nah far too easy

[Wholly Trinity]

Still looking at the proposed slight alteration. (points advantage carried over, points difference zeroed and 3 points for a win in the super 8s.

Saints would already be League leaders, crowned premiers if they are still top after the 8s and champions if they win the grand final.

No-one would have won all three titles using this system since the advent of the 8s.

Using proposed system:

With current system:

So, although the order is currently the same, the potential for change is more likely with Huddersfield within one win of Warrington and St. Helens needing to lose 3/5 (instead of 4/5 and a massive points loss) to enable Wigan to win the premiership.

[TBone]

Look, people, at the end of the day the SL clubs recon that they need  at least 14 revenue games per season to make ends meet. In the old days this achieved by 13 home games and the magic weekend.

Now, for some reason (maybe greed?) it was decided to reduce SL to 12 BUT that didn’t change the base requirement of 14 paying games per club. So, alleluia, management consultants were employed to sort it out. And sort it out they did - by perverting the whole way a league works. Only even they, with their sky high charges, couldn’t come up with level of perversion of some on here (are those guys mega management consultants in their day job?).

What is wrong with keeping it simple? Have a straight league to decide the League Leader (most consistent side). Hell, even make it a bit more juicy by stumping up a decent wedge for the winner. Follow this by some other competition, where there is reward for achieving highest league positions, to decide the season champions .

if there has to be PR (and I’m not a fan of that) then either straight one up, one down. OR, if you want a twist,  maybe a 1 or 3 game play off series between the bottom SL team and the top Championsip team; or a straight playoff with the bottom SL team and as many championship teams as you like.

All of which is fine and dandy but, as others have pointed out, it doesn’t address any of the real, underlying, problems that the game faces (and has done for some time) namely not enough revenue and not enough quality players to grow.

 

[Oliver Clothesoff]

Something controversial here, we don’t need any controversial, confusing or complex system to generate fixtures.

Twelve teams. 

22 Home and Away matches, three “loop” fixtures that are pre-determined before a hooter is blown on the opening day, and one Magic Weekend game = 26 League games. 

A top five play-off system that culminates in a Grand Final at Old Trafford. 

The Challenge Cup Final to revert to being played in May, making the season more evenly stacked, instead of being heavily stacked at the back end of the year as it is now. 

The Magic Weekend to move to a weekend in July/August. 

A dedicated International window (though this is dependant on the NRL playing ball) where England take on New Zealand in the US and England Knights play France in Frances. 

Promotion and Relegation to work on a three year cycle in which the Super League side with the lowest average points total over the past three years goes down and is replaced by the Championship side with the highest average points total over the past three years. 

[Saint Toppy]

I wish people would stop coming up with daft ideas that reward mediocrity. 

If don't win enough games after 23 rounds to put yourself in contention for the top 4, then tough s###! 

Why should a team finishing 8th and 20 points behind deserve a chance to be at OT? - They don't! 

It's professional sport not a pathetic school sports day.

I don't know why we ever adopted the NRL method of deciding the Champions,  there was nothing wrong with the 1st past the post system,  it's a far better reflection of who the best team is over the course of a season and the team most deserving of being called league champions.

[SilentAssassin]

38 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

I wish people would stop coming up with daft ideas that reward mediocrity. 

If don't win enough games after 23 rounds to put yourself in contention for the top 4, then tough s###! 

Why should a team finishing 8th and 20 points behind deserve a chance to be at OT? - They don't! 

It's professional sport not a pathetic school sports day.

I don't know why we ever adopted the NRL method of deciding the Champions,  there was nothing wrong with the 1st past the post system,  it's a far better reflection of who the best team is over the course of a season and the team most deserving of being called league champions.

there was nothing wrong with top 5 play offs which rewarded the top 2 with a second chance for their efforts and made it rightly very difficult to win it from outside the top 2. the GF is a great concept and the sell out show piece at OT every year is a success story for SL. the real problems started by going to top 8 play offs which Leeds exposed by winning from 5th twice. 14 teams, play each other twice, 5 team play off system, 1 up 1 down. that simple.

[Wholly Trinity]

On 8/20/2018 at 6:32 PM, Saint Toppy said:

I wish people would stop coming up with daft ideas that reward mediocrity. 

If don't win enough games after 23 rounds to put yourself in contention for the top 4, then tough s###! 

Why should a team finishing 8th and 20 points behind deserve a chance to be at OT? - They don't! 

It's professional sport not a pathetic school sports day.

I don't know why we ever adopted the NRL method of deciding the Champions,  there was nothing wrong with the 1st past the post system,  it's a far better reflection of who the best team is over the course of a season and the team most deserving of being called league champions.

For a start, a team finishing 8th and 20 points behind won't catch up 20 points on the leaders.

BUT, if it did happen, they would absolutely deserve a shot at the GF.

For this to happen, say Catalans would have had to win 9 games in a row against higher placed teams in consecutive weeks and Saints would have to lose 7 in a row. Why would the leaders after the first 23 rounds be more deserving of their place?

Everyone playing each other and giving a prize only to the team that wins the most is more like school sports I knew. 'A prize for everyone'  is a fairly new development.

RL is not soccer. We play fewer games, have smaller squads and more frequent injuries. This means you need luck with injuries and fixture timing as well as form. You could win games just by playing teams devastated by injury or backing up after a 5-day turn-around. Or like Cas, playing the cup finalists at home the week before and after the final. (We won't mention Hull).

Modern professional sport needs fans, viewers and sponsors (i.e. money). Teams need to keep hope alive and stay in the race for as long as possible. This would only be on merit, not a 'prize for all'. Given their start, Saints would always be favourites, but they would still have to prove it at the business end of the season. They can't afford to relax. Everyone knows the system at the start of the season.

The worthy champions should be tested at all stages of the season and be able to perform when the pressure is on.

Formula 1 is an example of how this works in modern professional sport. A race weekend comprises 3 free practice sessions, 3 qualifying sessions and a race.

You get nothing but kudos and airtime for free practice, but get chance to fine tune your team. Each of the qualifying sessions eliminates 5 drivers, but you get nothing for winning Q1 or Q2. The winner of Q3 gets to start on pole. However, the only prize that really counts is winning the race. Pole, fastest lap, fastest pit-stop, fastest in free practice, count for nothing. You have to perform at the big event. Everything builds to a crescendo.

Under the system below, Saints would have been given the LLS after 23 rounds and are a good bet for the 'premiership', giving them pole position for the GF, but they need to pick up their current form, they can't just coast to a semi-final spot. The challenge to win 'all four trophies' should be so difficult as to make it extremely rare.

After 3 rounds, positions are the same as the current system, but, with 3 points for a win, hope is still alive for more clubs to move, if they perform significantly better than the teams currently above them. It's not 'prizes for all' by any means, only the best performing teams can win at each stage, with the prizes increasing in value as the season progresses.

[Wholly Trinity]

Order still the same as current system, and top 4 decided (barring Huddersfield winning all 3 and Warrington losing all 3 by large margins), but the order of the top 4 and semi-final fixtures is still to play for. League leaders are not yet guaranteed to be premiers, or even get a home semi draw, if their form deteriorates, pressure is still on.