Harry Stottle Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 How good would that be to really ratchet up the interest and fascination for the rounds that follow, even better should they meet in the MPG, before I get jumped on as being some kind of heritic or dissident may I say that I subscribe to Sky, and I do so to be entertained, should this game take place I would really want to watch it, I would not travel to Leeds and definatley not to Canada to view it, next best thing on the TV, delicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 21 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said: How good would that be to really ratchet up the interest and fascination for the rounds that follow, even better should they meet in the MPG, before I get jumped on as being some kind of heritic or dissident may I say that I subscribe to Sky, and I do so to be entertained, should this game take place I would really want to watch it, I would not travel to Leeds and definatley not to Canada to view it, next best thing on the TV, delicious. On this point, I am with you - I am getting a bit fed up of being told that you are some sicko for wanting to watch engaging sport that really means something to those involved. As fans I don't think the repercussions are for us to worry about - it is up to the administrators to bring in enough money to cover whatever format they have. I'm with you (not particularly about these two losing) but about the overall point of wanting to see some blockbuster games where the underdogs mix it up. I'm as interested in the business side of the game as anyone, but I also feel sport has heartbreak and jubilation that nothing else does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derwent Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 7 minutes ago, Dave T said: On this point, I am with you - I am getting a bit fed up of being told that you are some sicko for wanting to watch engaging sport that really means something to those involved. As fans I don't think the repercussions are for us to worry about - it is up to the administrators to bring in enough money to cover whatever format they have. I'm with you (not particularly about these two losing) but about the overall point of wanting to see some blockbuster games where the underdogs mix it up. I'm as interested in the business side of the game as anyone, but I also feel sport has heartbreak and jubilation that nothing else does. Quite. I often read posts by a small bunch of usual suspects on here and think "you're not really a sports fan are you ?" I don't understand how these people can view sport without any emotional attachment. I’m not prejudiced, I hate everybody equally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrispmartha Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 I agree that sport should be entertaining and the sense of jeopardy does invoke this but (and I may be biased as my side is one of those you mention) I detest the middle 8s and I have from the start, the interest and exciting games should be at the pinnacle of the sport not at the bottom, I agree with promotion and relegation but disagree with this way of deciding it and I think the uncertainty is ultimately bad for the clubs involved, take Leeds for example we have had a shocker of a year but finished 9th in a 12th team league, so under the current system rightly involved in a relegation battle - Leeds have some new excellent corporate facilities which they need to sell, which they cannot do whilst the future is uncertain, any teams involved can't properly plan for anything beyond the next few games, its not sustainable. Look at Widnes, they been terrible for a few years and finished bottom, they could have easily done a Salford and sign some decent players and look great in the middle 8s only to prop up SL again next year when those short term signings leave. Conversely what if the team finishing 9th (leeds in this instance) suddenly get a run of injuries that depletes the team and manage to get relegated, is that good for the sport as a whole, I don't think so, we as a sport cannot afford to be losing so called top clubs because they have a poor run of form (IMO) and I would say the same even if Leeds were not involvedI have nothing against Widnes and I feel for their club and supporters but it's been obvious for a while that they are not up to SL standard and I feel a straight one up one down whilst not creating the drama would be a much fairer system for both the clubs and RL in general as both Widnes and Toronto this year could be planning properly for their futures rather than throwing everything at a 7 game league with nothing set for the following year, Surely its also not very good for players who haven't got a clue what contract they will have for next season. It might be great in a rubber necking shaudenfraude tip of way but it's not good for the sport in general, amp IMHO of course It was interesting listening to Jackson Hastings on the SL show because he is used to the NRL system he couldn't get his head around the SL system and found it strange that a team finishing 8th has no chance of competing in the Grand Final, whereas over here we find it odd that a team finishing 8th has a chance at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iangidds Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 Absolutely agree , having games meaning a lot is what pro sport is all about ; that’s why we pay to watch either on tv or in person. We need more money in the game for sure so it does ruin the club that try’s and fails because in sport there are always losers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrispmartha Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 9 minutes ago, iangidds said: Absolutely agree , having games meaning a lot is what pro sport is all about ; that’s why we pay to watch either on tv or in person. We need more money in the game for sure so it does ruin the club that try’s and fails because in sport there are always losers Personally I think its shortsighted though. Take Catalans, was the 'excitement' of them being in the MPG better for the game than them winning the Challenge Cup this year? I f you want to create excitement create it at the top not the bottom, why not create an exciting playoff system in the championship to find a replacement for the bottom SL team who is relegated. Dragging teams in from SL who could in theory be in the qualifiers on points difference to teams finishing 2-3 places above them seems ridiculous to me. And you don't bring more money ito the game by potentially relegating clubs that bring in a lot of money (Warrington, Catalans, Hull KR, Leeds etc) just because they have had a bit of a poorer season than the teams finishing in 6th, 7th and 8th in a 12 team league. As I say it's short term thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 18 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said: I agree that sport should be entertaining and the sense of jeopardy does invoke this but (and I may be biased as my side is one of those you mention) I detest the middle 8s and I have from the start, the interest and exciting games should be at the pinnacle of the sport not at the bottom, I agree with promotion and relegation but disagree with this way of deciding it and I think the uncertainty is ultimately bad for the clubs involved, take Leeds for example we have had a shocker of a year but finished 9th in a 12th team league, so under the current system rightly involved in a relegation battle - Leeds have some new excellent corporate facilities which they need to sell, which they cannot do whilst the future is uncertain, any teams involved can't properly plan for anything beyond the next few games, its not sustainable. Look at Widnes, they been terrible for a few years and finished bottom, they could have easily done a Salford and sign some decent players and look great in the middle 8s only to prop up SL again next year when those short term signings leave. Conversely what if the team finishing 9th (leeds in this instance) suddenly get a run of injuries that depletes the team and manage to get relegated, is that good for the sport as a whole, I don't think so, we as a sport cannot afford to be losing so called top clubs because they have a poor run of form (IMO) and I would say the same even if Leeds were not involvedI have nothing against Widnes and I feel for their club and supporters but it's been obvious for a while that they are not up to SL standard and I feel a straight one up one down whilst not creating the drama would be a much fairer system for both the clubs and RL in general as both Widnes and Toronto this year could be planning properly for their futures rather than throwing everything at a 7 game league with nothing set for the following year, Surely its also not very good for players who haven't got a clue what contract they will have for next season. It might be great in a rubber necking shaudenfraude tip of way but it's not good for the sport in general, amp IMHO of course It was interesting listening to Jackson Hastings on the SL show because he is used to the NRL system he couldn't get his head around the SL system and found it strange that a team finishing 8th has no chance of competing in the Grand Final, whereas over here we find it odd that a team finishing 8th has a chance at all. You are just doing exactly what is being referred to in this thread. Refusing to enjoy good sport because of some off-field stuff. If we don't have enough capacity to be excited by the battle for the top and bottom then that is a rather major issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrispmartha Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Dave T said: You are just doing exactly what is being referred to in this thread. Refusing to enjoy good sport because of some off-field stuff. If we don't have enough capacity to be excited by the battle for the top and bottom then that is a rather major issue. I'm not enjoying the middle 8s at all, they are just not enjoyable when my team is involved so I fully admit my view may be slightly tainted. I care about the sport (as I'm sure we all do on here) so whilst I can easily find a game entertaining I can't put the wider picture to the back of my mind, maybe I'm just too much of a worry wart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Tonks Sidestep Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 What should also be pointed out is that despite being in the Middle 8s (for the second time), and running the risk of relegation, the Leeds Club still seem keen on maintaining the 8s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrispmartha Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said: What should also be pointed out is that despite being in the Middle 8s (for the second time), and running the risk of relegation, the Leeds Club still seem keen on maintaining the 8s. And it's one of things I think GH is totally wrong on, along withe the reserve team situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_57 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 54 minutes ago, Dave T said: On this point, I am with you - I am getting a bit fed up of being told that you are some sicko for wanting to watch engaging sport that really means something to those involved. As fans I don't think the repercussions are for us to worry about - it is up to the administrators to bring in enough money to cover whatever format they have. I'm with you (not particularly about these two losing) but about the overall point of wanting to see some blockbuster games where the underdogs mix it up. I'm as interested in the business side of the game as anyone, but I also feel sport has heartbreak and jubilation that nothing else does. I agree somewhat but I think some people get a bit too obsessed with the notion that every game has to have something major on the line to be entertaining. We are fans of a sport, not fans of a ladder, the appeal of the actual game seems to get lost on people if "nothing is on the line". If two teams play each other near the end of the season with no chance of silverware/promotion or relagation/wooden spoon they can still put on a great couple of hours entertainment which is what sport is about. The theatre of a season is a great part of any sport but sometimes it seems we are heading to a position where the results and consequences are the main focus and nobody much cares about watching the 80 minutes of Rugby League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrispmartha Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, jim_57 said: I agree somewhat but I think some people get a bit too obsessed with the notion that every game has to have something major on the line to be entertaining. We are fans of a sport, not fans of a ladder, the appeal of the actual game seems to get lost on people if "nothing is on the line". If two teams play each other near the end of the season with no chance of silverware/promotion or relagation/wooden spoon they can still put on a great couple of hours entertainment which is what sport is about. The theatre of a season is a great part of any sport but sometimes it seems we are heading to a position where the results and consequences are the main focus and nobody much cares about watching the 80 minutes of Rugby League. Yes I agree totally, I have enjoyed friendlies more than some games where there is jeopardy, our sport is entertaining to watch we do not need gimmicks to make it more meaningful to the detriment of the game as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 4 minutes ago, jim_57 said: I agree somewhat but I think some people get a bit too obsessed with the notion that every game has to have something major on the line to be entertaining. We are fans of a sport, not fans of a ladder, the appeal of the actual game seems to get lost on people if "nothing is on the line". If two teams play each other near the end of the season with no chance of silverware/promotion or relagation/wooden spoon they can still put on a great couple of hours entertainment which is what sport is about. The theatre of a season is a great part of any sport but sometimes it seems we are heading to a position where the results and consequences are the main focus and nobody much cares about watching the 80 minutes of Rugby League. I agree. I enjoy most games, you wont hear me bag the game just so I can get a dig in on the structure because it isn't exactly how I like it. I accept whatever structure the game puts in place, those guys are paying the bills, and if they don't want Super 8's I will live with it. Just like I was happy to watch the game with 2 up 2 down, 1 up 1 down, licensing. Whatever the structure I will watch it. And I won't spend every second telling people how bad it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 Sky should ignore the super 8s and concentrate on the qualifiers . Just a load of meaningless games while the really key games are going on elsewhere. Three on to one this weekend , should be other way round Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted September 5, 2018 Author Share Posted September 5, 2018 18 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said: I agree that sport should be entertaining and the sense of jeopardy does invoke this but (and I may be biased as my side is one of those you mention) I detest the middle 8s and I have from the start, the interest and exciting games should be at the pinnacle of the sport not at the bottom, I agree with promotion and relegation but disagree with this way of deciding it and I think the uncertainty is ultimately bad for the clubs involved, take Leeds for example we have had a shocker of a year but finished 9th in a 12th team league, so under the current system rightly involved in a relegation battle - Leeds have some new excellent corporate facilities which they need to sell, which they cannot do whilst the future is uncertain, any teams involved can't properly plan for anything beyond the next few games, its not sustainable. Look at Widnes, they been terrible for a few years and finished bottom, they could have easily done a Salford and sign some decent players and look great in the middle 8s only to prop up SL again next year when those short term signings leave. Conversely what if the team finishing 9th (leeds in this instance) suddenly get a run of injuries that depletes the team and manage to get relegated, is that good for the sport as a whole, I don't think so, we as a sport cannot afford to be losing so called top clubs because they have a poor run of form (IMO) and I would say the same even if Leeds were not involvedI have nothing against Widnes and I feel for their club and supporters but it's been obvious for a while that they are not up to SL standard and I feel a straight one up one down whilst not creating the drama would be a much fairer system for both the clubs and RL in general as both Widnes and Toronto this year could be planning properly for their futures rather than throwing everything at a 7 game league with nothing set for the following year, Surely its also not very good for players who haven't got a clue what contract they will have for next season. It might be great in a rubber necking shaudenfraude tip of way but it's not good for the sport in general, amp IMHO of course It was interesting listening to Jackson Hastings on the SL show because he is used to the NRL system he couldn't get his head around the SL system and found it strange that a team finishing 8th has no chance of competing in the Grand Final, whereas over here we find it odd that a team finishing 8th has a chance at all. Chris, lets for the moment work on a completely hypothetical situation, fast forward to next season, Widnes are gone to be replaced with a stronger team than one who losses 17 or whatever games on the trot, we have got rid of the 8's and Leeds along with Hull FC are as now the recent worst performing clubs in the league, the league has got to round 23 and we are entering the 'loopy' season of 6 more fixtures, assuming Leeds finish in 9th position in a much more competitive League they would be competing against only one team the 11th ranked (in an odds and evens set up from the previous year) who could be deemed not as good as Leeds and 4 better teams deemed better than Leeds, in a system in which finishing bottom = relegation, in this set up of the Q8's they are playing against 6 teams deemed not being as good, on that scenario which do you think is the better system for giving the opportunity for a SL club to avoid relegation? I am waiting in earnest for the end of the regular season next year, and the cries of foul, or it isn't fair that clubs should be subjected to this uncertainty, do not not for one minute think that it is beyond one of the 'big' clubs to find themselves in this situation, read, over the last three seasons Leeds, Wire, Leeds, the loopy fixtures will make the trap door so much bigger than the Qualifying 8's for the SL teams within arms length of jeopardy, I would relish it happening to one of the 'big' clubs. And if we are at the same part of the season and in the same predicament as now for any SL team who might find themselves in this predicament, do you expect a clamour for the next seasons hospitality sales you state are essential, I suspect the uncertanty would be just the same as this season and people, organisations would hold back in exactly the same manner as now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Prince Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 57 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said: I agree that sport should be entertaining and the sense of jeopardy does invoke this but (and I may be biased as my side is one of those you mention) I detest the middle 8s and I have from the start, the interest and exciting games should be at the pinnacle of the sport not at the bottom, I agree with promotion and relegation but disagree with this way of deciding it and I think the uncertainty is ultimately bad for the clubs involved, take Leeds for example we have had a shocker of a year but finished 9th in a 12th team league, so under the current system rightly involved in a relegation battle - Leeds have some new excellent corporate facilities which they need to sell, which they cannot do whilst the future is uncertain, any teams involved can't properly plan for anything beyond the next few games, its not sustainable. Look at Widnes, they been terrible for a few years and finished bottom, they could have easily done a Salford and sign some decent players and look great in the middle 8s only to prop up SL again next year when those short term signings leave. Conversely what if the team finishing 9th (leeds in this instance) suddenly get a run of injuries that depletes the team and manage to get relegated, is that good for the sport as a whole, I don't think so, we as a sport cannot afford to be losing so called top clubs because they have a poor run of form (IMO) and I would say the same even if Leeds were not involvedI have nothing against Widnes and I feel for their club and supporters but it's been obvious for a while that they are not up to SL standard and I feel a straight one up one down whilst not creating the drama would be a much fairer system for both the clubs and RL in general as both Widnes and Toronto this year could be planning properly for their futures rather than throwing everything at a 7 game league with nothing set for the following year, Surely its also not very good for players who haven't got a clue what contract they will have for next season. It might be great in a rubber necking shaudenfraude tip of way but it's not good for the sport in general, amp IMHO of course It was interesting listening to Jackson Hastings on the SL show because he is used to the NRL system he couldn't get his head around the SL system and found it strange that a team finishing 8th has no chance of competing in the Grand Final, whereas over here we find it odd that a team finishing 8th has a chance at all. An extremely cogent comment. I would add that the NRL have 16 teams not 12 and it suits them to have a top 8 rather than what would be a top 5 or 6 for us. 5 for me. As I have said before, small boys might get fun out of puling of the wings from flies but managing a professional Rugby League system out to be a grown up business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrispmartha Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said: Chris, lets for the moment work on a completely hypothetical situation, fast forward to next season, Widnes are gone to be replaced with a stronger team than one who losses 17 or whatever games on the trot, we have got rid of the 8's and Leeds along with Hull FC are as now the recent worst performing clubs in the league, the league has got to round 23 and we are entering the 'loopy' season of 6 more fixtures, assuming Leeds finish in 9th position in a much more competitive League they would be competing against only one team the 11th ranked (in an odds and evens set up from the previous year) who could be deemed not as good as Leeds and 4 better teams deemed better than Leeds, in a system in which finishing bottom = relegation, in this set up of the Q8's they are playing against 6 teams deemed not being as good, on that scenario which do you think is the better system for giving the opportunity for a SL club to avoid relegation? I am waiting in earnest for the end of the regular season next year, and the cries of foul, or it isn't fair that clubs should be subjected to this uncertainty, do not not for one minute think that it is beyond one of the 'big' clubs to find themselves in this situation, read, over the last three seasons Leeds, Wire, Leeds, the loopy fixtures will make the trap door so much bigger than the Qualifying 8's for the SL teams within arms length of jeopardy, I would relish it happening to one of the 'big' clubs. And if we are at the same part of the season and in the same predicament as now for any SL team who might find themselves in this predicament, do you expect a clamour for the next seasons hospitality sales you state are essential, I suspect the uncertanty would be just the same as this season and people, organisations would hold back in exactly the same manner as now. It's not that I think it's unfair I just don't think it's the best system for the game overall. It's perfectly fair because that's what the teams know before a ball is kicked at the beginning of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrispmartha Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said: An extremely cogent comment. I would add that the NRL have 16 teams not 12 and it suits them to have a top 8 rather than what would be a top 5 or 6 for us. 5 for me. As I have said before, small boys might get fun out of puling of the wings from flies but managing a professional Rugby League system out to be a grown up business. The top 5 system we had was the best system I think we had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 4 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said: As I have said before, small boys might get fun out of puling of the wings from flies but managing a professional Rugby League system out to be a grown up business. We have a winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Prince Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 22 minutes ago, jim_57 said: I agree somewhat but I think some people get a bit too obsessed with the notion that every game has to have something major on the line to be entertaining. We are fans of a sport, not fans of a ladder, the appeal of the actual game seems to get lost on people if "nothing is on the line". If two teams play each other near the end of the season with no chance of silverware/promotion or relagation/wooden spoon they can still put on a great couple of hours entertainment which is what sport is about. The theatre of a season is a great part of any sport but sometimes it seems we are heading to a position where the results and consequences are the main focus and nobody much cares about watching the 80 minutes of Rugby League. Quite right, in the good olden days it was called 'winning pay'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted September 5, 2018 Author Share Posted September 5, 2018 Just now, Chrispmartha said: It's not that I think it's unfair I just don't think it's the best system for the game overall. It's perfectly fair because that's what the teams know before a ball is kicked at the beginning of the season. On your second point, I really expect there will be murmurings of such a team has got the easier fixtures, the most logical way of selecting the make up of the 'loopy's' is in their finishing positions 1 - 6 and 7 - 12 but that would be the same as the present fornat without the Championship clubs involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted September 5, 2018 Author Share Posted September 5, 2018 14 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said: An extremely cogent comment. I would add that the NRL have 16 teams not 12 and it suits them to have a top 8 rather than what would be a top 5 or 6 for us. 5 for me. As I have said before, small boys might get fun out of puling of the wings from flies but managing a professional Rugby League system out to be a grown up business. One team is not getting relegated in the NRL, the theme is about the bottom clubs, Chris decided to expand it to the NRL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damp squib Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 Of course the middle 8s are entertaining but if you aren't worried about the prospect of a club like Leeds or Catalans being relegated then you're either incapable of seeing beyond the next fixture or you're deluded as to how strong RL is. I think the middle 8s are entertaining but risk far too much damage to the sport. I think it is possible to have a system that is equally entertaining but which does not risk the sport as much. I fail to see why that is so controversial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 8 minutes ago, scotchy1 said: No sport focuses as much on losers as RL. The middle 8s are for losers it's s competition without winners a competition to find losers. I watch sport for winners. I want see teams that win not ones that avoid losing. The sport has the top 8 all playing each other. Root out the weaker teams so we see better games for the last quarter of the season. Much of the obsession on the Middle 8's is from the haters. The majority of games are between top teams, crack on and enjoy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidey Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 I am 100% behind Leeds losing for obvious reasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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