8 Sept: Super 8s: Catalans Dragons v St Helens KO 5.30pm (UK time) (TV)

[bobbruce]

8 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

That's why players stand back behind the passing player. The passing player has arms and propels the ball.

Seriously watch the video.

[sentoffagain2]

1 hour ago, Old Frightful said:

It's not, ffs.

Read what I put, it's the direction of the movement of the player's hands relative to his body and the opposition try line that's important. After the ball leaves the hands the player has no control of the direction it goes.

Players running at full speed will find it very difficult to pass the ball in a direction that makes it travel backwards.

Not if they plant their leading foot and turn their shoulders inwards.Reason for most forward passes are too flat attack to gain advantage over defence.Player receiving the ball should aim to be at least two ft behind ball handler not flat as some players are.

[Rupert Prince]

9 minutes ago, Moove said:

Watch the video posted above. If that doesn't make you see that you're wrong then there's no hope. I bet you're a flat earther as well.

It's clear in the video the that the passes are not passed back. Irrespective of what the RU may say or intend. In the first instance the ball is propelled sideways and cleary swerved in a curve forward. In the second even more risible example it is just thrown up, and 'it fell to earth I know not where'.

The examples here are a pretence.  To paraphrase someone, 'If that's rugby I'm a banana.

[Moove]

1 minute ago, Rupert Prince said:

It's clear in the video the that the passes are not passed back. Irrespective of what the RU may say or intend. In the first instance the ball is propelled sideways and cleary swerved in a curve forward. In the second even more risible example it is just thrown up, and 'it fell to earth I know not where'.

The examples here are a pretence.  To paraphrase someone, 'If that's rugby I'm a banana.

Now I know you're just on the wind up. I'm out.

[bobbruce]

2 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

It's clear in the video the that the passes are not passed back. Irrespective of what the RU may say or intend. In the first instance the ball is propelled sideways and cleary swerved in a curve forward. In the second even more risible example it is just thrown up, and 'it fell to earth I know not where'.

The examples here are a pretence.  To paraphrase someone, 'If that's rugby I'm a banana.

Unfortunately for you Eric those are the rules/laws we play to. 

[Rupert Prince]

25 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

Seriously watch the video.

'I refer you to my answer earlier.'

The examples do not as they suggest propel the ball back.

A ball does not magically leave the players hand and act like a bomb leaving a plane. A movement is imparted by a human, and its a pretence to suggest they are cleanly moved back in the video.

In the first example the ball immediately curves forward.  

Even if by some risible notion you accept the possibility of fair movement of the ball then it makes a mockery of a human, ie the referee, for divining whether or not the passer either makes such a fair movement or alternatively a foul act of pushing the ball forward. Such a decision is virtually impossible. 

Please note that I do enjoy such interesting arguments, it is all grist to the mill, but let me be clear, I am not trolling. And of course  others can decide differently. But the best measure is whether the ball went back or forward.

 

[bobbruce]

1 minute ago, Rupert Prince said:

'I refer you to my answer earlier.'

The examples do not as they suggest propel the ball back.

A ball does not magically leave the players hand and act like a bomb leaving a plane. A movement is imparted by a human, and its a pretence to suggest they are cleanly moved back in the video.

In the first example the ball immediately curves forward.  

Even if by some risible notion you accept the possibility of fair movement of the ball then it makes a mockery of a human, ie the referee, for divining whether or not the passer either makes such a fair movement or alternatively a foul act of pushing the ball forward. Such a decision is virtually impossible. 

Please note that I do enjoy such interesting arguments, it is all grist to the mill, but let me be clear, I am not trolling. And of course  others can decide differently. But the best measure is whether the ball went back or forward.

 

You can but what you can’t do is change the rules/laws of the game     Which clearly state a forward pass should be judged against the players involved not the pitch. 

[ravens88]

I watched the last 20 minutes of this game and Catalans were back to their nonsense of poor ball control and terrible discipline.

Kenny Edwards should have been sent off for his antics. I see this kind of behaviour far too much in Rugby League.

In Union, that kind of behaviour would not be tolerated for long. 

However I don't see why the Video Referee can't intervene in forward passes when it CLEAR and OBVIOUS.

St Helen's last two tries were METRES forward. In addition you had the 10 metres line segment which made it look even worse.

It needs to be fixed so you can review such decisions.

[swann5]

So many foward passes let go again in a super league match .?

[Chris22]

Forward passes are very difficult to call. I was at the semi-finals at Bolton when Leeds had a try disallowed for a forward pass early in the second half. I was sat directly in line with Myler's pass, and it was clearly forward. Yet, when I watched it back, the BBC showed several angles and it didn't look forward on any angle. 

I'm just relieved we won last night. A lot suggested that we were awful/collapsing etc. and whilst there was an element of this, it does a disservice to a tough Catalans side. It's a weird time of year for us, because it makes no difference if we win or lose, but you don't want to got in to a semi-final in poor form. Being optimistic, I hope we will gain confidence from going to Perpignan and winning when it looked like the game was gone.

Interesting to see how Holbrook manages it from here. Aaron Smith would be fine covering at hooker for the next few weeks for Roby, with Morgan picking up 4 head injuries this year I'd be tempted to sit him out for the semi.

We also have a full back conundrum with Barba's lack of form. Arguably, we stand more of a chance by running with Lomax at 1 rather than Barba. But I imagine Holbrook with stick with Barba and hope he can rediscover the brilliance we saw earlier this year,

[GIANTSTRIDES]

32 minutes ago, swann5 said:

So many foward passes let go again in a super league match .?

Whats new ?  I did enjoy the game as i usually do and was not bothered who won, I have to say though that my overriding thought afterwards was that the ref found a way for Saints to win.

[Old Frightful]

32 minutes ago, Chris22 said:

We also have a full back conundrum with Barba's lack of form. 

[Rupert Prince]

3 hours ago, bobbruce said:

You can but what you can’t do is change the rules/laws of the game     Which clearly state a forward pass should be judged against the players involved not the pitch. 

We have moved on from Newtonian physics to Einsteinian relativity!

Best we give up otherwise we will be into the Many Universes Theory...

 

[Lowdesert]

51 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

We have moved on from Newtonian physics to Einsteinian relativity!

Best we give up otherwise we will be into the Many Universes Theory...

 

Good idea.  

Are you from RFLfans forum?

[RayCee]

A way around this issue is to make the rule that the ball has to be propelled backwards. Flat passes not acceptable.

The adjudication for a pass must still rest with onfield officials as it is now.

[Damien]

48 minutes ago, RayCee said:

A way around this issue is to make the rule that the ball has to be propelled backwards. Flat passes not acceptable.

The adjudication for a pass must still rest with onfield officials as it is now.

When did flat passes actually become allowed? All the way though my playing days a flat pass was a forward pass.

[Rupert Prince]

4 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

Good idea.  

Are you from RFLfans forum?

I am from 'a' RLF forum, one where Toronto is top of the super league and St Helens are in the MPG!

Mind you I am CEO of the RFL...! The trouble is in another universe so are you!!

[Rupert Prince]

47 minutes ago, Damien said:

When did flat passes actually become allowed? All the way though my playing days a flat pass was a forward pass.

A flat pass, even stood still, must inevitably go forward.  But if officials and rule makers are suggesting these sort of technical forward passes are being allowed then it's inevitable that loads of illegal and obvious forward passes are going to get let through. 

We are 'rugby unionising' the forward pass. For years I have laughed at RU over this. Is this what WE have been reduced to?

[johnh1]

'A flat pass, even if stood still, must inevitably go forward'. Please explain.

[Manx RL]

6 minutes ago, johnh1 said:

'A flat pass, even if stood still, must inevitably go forward'. Please explain.

 

[Lowdesert]

13 hours ago, Rupert Prince said:

I am from 'a' RLF forum, one where Toronto is top of the super league and St Helens are in the MPG!

Mind you I am CEO of the RFL...! The trouble is in another universe so are you!!

Carry on mate.  Your fast becoming a laughing stock.

[barnyia]

Apparently ganson told the refs that they where a disgrace to rugby league,  printed in the French paper today! 

[Human Punk]

I didn't think the ref was too bad. He didn't get everything right, obviously, and Saints benefitted more than the Catalans from those, but to suggest there was an agenda ignores the fact that Saints had 3 tries disallowed.

I've seen many far worse examples of refereeing decisions affecting the outcome of a game than that one. The Cats let themselves down, and both players and fans were looking for someone else to blame.

[audois]

Catalans have done OK in 2018 against runaway competition leaders St Helens. In the four hit-outs competitive with 81 points for and 89 against. Something to build on next year.

 

 

 

[Lowdesert]

1 hour ago, Human Punk said:

I didn't think the ref was too bad. He didn't get everything right, obviously, and Saints benefitted more than the Catalans from those, but to suggest there was an agenda ignores the fact that Saints had 3 tries disallowed.

I've seen many far worse examples of refereeing decisions affecting the outcome of a game than that one. The Cats let themselves down, and both players and fans were looking for someone else to blame.

Didn’t Thornley have one disallowed as well?  The video on the Cats website gives plenty of replays and the ball touched the line imo - or was there another infringement?