Sports Prophet Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 Can’t believe the audacity of Serena to play a sexism card. She was completely out of control and even in the post match conference she proclaims she will continue to “fight for women”. You call a match official “a thief”, expect there to be ramifications. She should be fined, not given a platform to slander. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnM Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 6 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said: Can’t believe the audacity of Serena to play a sexism card. She was completely out of control and even in the post match conference she proclaims she will continue to “fight for women”. You call a match official “a thief”, expect there to be ramifications. She should be fined, not given a platform to slander. Yeh, what a role model. She should have been ejected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futtocks Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 I have nothing but respect for Serena's playing talent; she's an all-time great. But this isn't her first meltdown, especially at the US Open. The combination of her behaviour and that of the crowd (almost as nasty as the Roland Garros mob), overshadowed and tarnished a superb first Grand Slam title for her opponent Naomi Osaka. Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. Ralph Waldo Emerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckn Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 36 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said: Can’t believe the audacity of Serena to play a sexism card. She was completely out of control and even in the post match conference she proclaims she will continue to “fight for women”. You call a match official “a thief”, expect there to be ramifications. She should be fined, not given a platform to slander. I may have missed it but... wasn’t the other player a woman as well? Makes sexism a bit of a daft call to make "When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 I have no doubt that Serena puts up with a lot of nonsense on the WTA tour. Being a black player from a poor background surrounded by the Henriettas of this world - who you beat remorselessly and consistently - is probably going to make everyone paranoid. But, as far as I can tell, she gets no more or less violations than anyone else when actually playing. She went off on one against a woman line judge when losing to Clijsters a while back so it's not like it's out of character or new since she became a mum. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futtocks Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 36 minutes ago, gingerjon said: I have no doubt that Serena puts up with a lot of nonsense on the WTA tour. Being a black player from a poor background surrounded by the Henriettas of this world - who you beat remorselessly and consistently - is probably going to make everyone paranoid. But, as far as I can tell, she gets no more or less violations than anyone else when actually playing. She went off on one against a woman line judge when losing to Clijsters a while back so it's not like it's out of character or new since she became a mum. Outside the British scene (which hasn't had a major tournament winner in decades), I'd hardly call the majority of female Tennis players "Henriettas", especially those from the former Eastern Bloc. A lot of them have got to the top the hard way too. The incident in the Clijsters match was particularly unpleasant. However, when Serena's playing and not erupting, she's fantastic to watch. Everyone bangs on about her power and aggression, but she has a better all-round, all-court, all-surface game than her rivals, and has done for years. A lot of that comes from being one of the few top stars (male or female) who plays regular doubles. Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. Ralph Waldo Emerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedford Roughyed Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 The sexism part is reference to would a judge dock a game off a male player for a similar rant, not her opponent. Plenty of those involved in tennis are suggesting that she may be right on that point. With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidey Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, Bedford Roughyed said: The sexism part is reference to would a judge dock a game off a male player for a similar rant, not her opponent. Plenty of those involved in tennis are suggesting that she may be right on that point. You cannot be serious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futtocks Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, Bedford Roughyed said: The sexism part is reference to would a judge dock a game off a male player for a similar rant, not her opponent. Plenty of those involved in tennis are suggesting that she may be right on that point. And plenty are pointing out that Patrick Mouratoglou admitted he was coaching her from the sidelines, which (when it is spotted, which isn't always) carries a penalty for any player. And she smashed her racquet, which carries a penalty for any player. And she verbally abused the umpire, which carries a penalty for any player. Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. Ralph Waldo Emerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedford Roughyed Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Decimus Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 For me this is the fundamental problem with identity politics. She played the sex card, she could just as easily played the race card. As RL fans we are all well too aware of the problems of officiating games. There are many one-eyed RL fans who think that referees are biased for teams and against their teams. It is usually laughed off and dismissed. When it comes to IdPol it isn't just taken seriously, it is very difficult to argue against because of the toxic atmosphere surrounding it. A large proportion of people will simply presume she is right and a significant number will not want to say she might be wrong. It could be sexism, it could also be 100 other things. Give it a couple of days and you'll have one side saying its sexism and the other side getting called sexist for disagreeing. It's a rabbit hole that will have no ending. A Widnesian in Ireland blog What is the best system for Super League? An honest appraisal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Decimus Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 25 minutes ago, Bedford Roughyed said: Is this supposed to be a good piece? If I wrote a piece about how Wayne Rooney has suffered prejudice all his life for being rough/ugly/scouse/working class so it's understandable that he has a go at refs would it be a good piece? A couple of years ago Widnes played Saints in a tight game. There was a melee towards the end and Child sent off two Widnes players and no Saints players. Widnes fans were livid and there were the inevitable accusations of corruption and bias towards the bigger sides. It was soon forgotten. Imagine if Widnes had a squad exclusively of players of African descent and the coach came out and called it racism. It would've been big news and there'd have been pieces proving how Widnes are treated differently from other sides. Few people would question it even if they thought it was rubbish. The result would be forever used as proof of racism in RL. A Widnesian in Ireland blog What is the best system for Super League? An honest appraisal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleEyePie Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 It seems like yet another situation where people (mainly on social media) can use it to justify what they want to believe and see it in black and white terms rather than acknowledge various shades of grey. Just because the umpire correctly applied the laws of the game in this case doesn't mean that there aren't double standards related to sexism in tennis - after all, the same umpire has repeatedly allowed male players to throw sustained verbal abuse at him with nothing more than a warning. I fail to see why one occasion of abuse could result in a warning but another incident within the same game doesn't warrant another, so surely there are questions to be asked. The incident with Alize Cornet has already highlighted that there are double standards in the game. However, the Serena supporters will be completely unwilling to accept that she has flaws, and that just because there may be double standards in tennis doesn't mean that the umpire was wrong to punish her the way he did, or that her outburst was justified. It absolutely wasn't. You cannot call the umpire a 'thief' and a 'liar' for applying the rules then take the moral high ground. If he punishes female players more harshly than male then I don't see why the issue shouldn't be raised, but you can be right about something and completely wrong in your actions at the same time. Also, this isn't the first time that Serena has abused an umpire and the language she uses doesn't paint her in a particularly appealing light. This is what she said to Eva Asderaki at the US Open in 2012: Quote "Are you the one that screwed me over the last time here? You're nobody. You're ugly on the inside. We were in America last time I checked, you're totally out of control. You're a hater and you're unattractive inside. What a loser." No one can justify abuse like that towards officials in any sport, and her most recent outburst is also unacceptable. So while she may be inspirational for many reasons, and be completely valid in calling out sexism in tennis, the attitude, sense of entitlement and contempt towards officials that she's shown on more than one occasion should not be condoned simply because she is a legend of the game, or has been fighting for a valid cause throughout her life/career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrone Shoelaces Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 Are tennis players subject to drug tests ? Just asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedford Roughyed Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said: Are tennis players subject to drug tests ? Just asking. Yes. With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Decimus Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 23 minutes ago, EagleEyePie said: It seems like yet another situation where people (mainly on social media) can use it to justify what they want to believe and see it in black and white terms rather than acknowledge various shades of grey. Just because the umpire correctly applied the laws of the game in this case doesn't mean that there aren't double standards related to sexism in tennis - after all, the same umpire has repeatedly allowed male players to throw sustained verbal abuse at him with nothing more than a warning. I fail to see why one occasion of abuse could result in a warning but another incident within the same game doesn't warrant another, so surely there are questions to be asked. The incident with Alize Cornet has already highlighted that there are double standards in the game. However, the Serena supporters will be completely unwilling to accept that she has flaws, and that just because there may be double standards in tennis doesn't mean that the umpire was wrong to punish her the way he did, or that her outburst was justified. It absolutely wasn't. You cannot call the umpire a 'thief' and a 'liar' for applying the rules then take the moral high ground. If he punishes female players more harshly than male then I don't see why the issue shouldn't be raised, but you can be right about something and completely wrong in your actions at the same time. Also, this isn't the first time that Serena has abused an umpire and the language she uses doesn't paint her in a particularly appealing light. This is what she said to Eva Asderaki at the US Open in 2012: No one can justify abuse like that towards officials in any sport, and her most recent outburst is also unacceptable. So while she may be inspirational for many reasons, and be completely valid in calling out sexism in tennis, the attitude, sense of entitlement and contempt towards officials that she's shown on more than one occasion should not be condoned simply because she is a legend of the game, or has been fighting for a valid cause throughout her life/career. The problem I have with this incident is that she went straight to sexism. Others will then only accept sexism as the answer. She then tried to tie her example in spuriously to other actual examples as if she was just making a point, completely overshadowing her opponent's victory. As I said earlier there are 100 reasons that could explain the umpire's behaviour. Even if we accept that there was wrong-doing and there was a double standard, I will narrow it down two: 1) He was being sexist 2) He lost his cool and lost control of a big event As RL fans we know number 2 can happen. We've all seen refereeing performances where it looks like they've lost it and act erratic in a vain attempt and get the game back under control. How are some people so certain it can only be 1? It being unprecedented isn't enough on its own. I'm not sure James Child had ever sent 2 players off from one side and none from the other side during a flare up. It didn't mean Widnes were being oppressed. A Widnesian in Ireland blog What is the best system for Super League? An honest appraisal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleEyePie Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said: The problem I have with this incident is that she went straight to sexism. Others will then only accept sexism as the answer. As I said earlier there are 100 reasons that could explain the umpire's behaviour. Even if we accept that there was wrong-doing and there was a double standard, I will narrow it down two: 1) He was being sexist 2) He lost his cool and lost control of a big event As RL fans we know number 2 can happen. We've all seen refereeing performances where it looks like they've lost it and act erratic in a vain attempt and get the game back under control. How are some people so certain it can only be 1? It being unprecedented isn't enough on its own. I'm not sure James Child had ever sent 2 players off from one side and none from the other side during a flare up. It didn't mean Widnes were being oppressed. I agree. This incident surely warrants a discussion and maybe an investigation rather than a witch hunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Decimus Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 12 minutes ago, EagleEyePie said: I agree. This incident surely warrants a discussion and maybe an investigation rather than a witch hunt. As ever actual evidence is the way forward. If there was a study that proved women were penalised more for similar actions then they could go from there. One isolated incident proves nothing. Gender is a convenient excuse that has successfully distracted from her quite appalling behaviour. Nobody celebrates footballers for having a go at refs, this is probably worse. Serena is being treated as a martyr in many quarters. The irony is if they were RL fans they'd no doubt be the type laughing at say Leigh fans for thinking the referees are against them because they don't want them in SL. It's essentially the same thing. A Widnesian in Ireland blog What is the best system for Super League? An honest appraisal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrone Shoelaces Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 48 minutes ago, Bedford Roughyed said: Yes. Are the tests any good ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said: Are the tests any good ? They follow the WADA code, https://www.itftennis.com/antidoping/rules/wada-code.aspx i suppose it depends on whether you think WADA is any good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 27 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said: As ever actual evidence is the way forward. If there was a study that proved women were penalised more for similar actions then they could go from there. One isolated incident proves nothing. Gender is a convenient excuse that has successfully distracted from her quite appalling behaviour. Nobody celebrates footballers for having a go at refs, this is probably worse. Serena is being treated as a martyr in many quarters. The irony is if they were RL fans they'd no doubt be the type laughing at say Leigh fans for thinking the referees are against them because they don't want them in SL. It's essentially the same thing. I think this is right. I heard many people support her, but didn't see them present clear examples. They used the umpire coaching the crazy Aussie guy, but those situations are not the same thing and the umpire got a roasting after it. We need examples where male players have been allowed to get away with receiving coaching, and examples where they were allowed to smash their racquet without punishment. I also would like examples where a male player has got away with calling an umpire a liar and a thief. She seemed like a nasty piece of work on the clip I saw tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbruce Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, Dave T said: I think this is right. I heard many people support her, but didn't see them present clear examples. They used the umpire coaching the crazy Aussie guy, but those situations are not the same thing and the umpire got a roasting after it. We need examples where male players have been allowed to get away with receiving coaching, and examples where they were allowed to smash their racquet without punishment. I also would like examples where a male player has got away with calling an umpire a liar and a thief. She seemed like a nasty piece of work on the clip I saw tbh. Yeah I also felt for the winner who’s had her first grand slam win ruined by Serena being a bad loser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedford Roughyed Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 23 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said: Are the tests any good ? Yes. With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 7 hours ago, Dave T said: I think this is right. I heard many people support her, but didn't see them present clear examples. They used the umpire coaching the crazy Aussie guy, but those situations are not the same thing and the umpire got a roasting after it. We need examples where male players have been allowed to get away with receiving coaching, and examples where they were allowed to smash their racquet without punishment. I also would like examples where a male player has got away with calling an umpire a liar and a thief. She seemed like a nasty piece of work on the clip I saw tbh. There's an almost overwhelming body of evidence to show that any other player, male or female, would have received the exact three penalties she received. The only even vaguely controversial one is the coaching one which, incidentally, the coach admitted to doing. And she has form for reacting exactly the same way when losing big games. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Decimus Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 7 hours ago, Dave T said: I think this is right. I heard many people support her, but didn't see them present clear examples. They used the umpire coaching the crazy Aussie guy, but those situations are not the same thing and the umpire got a roasting after it. We need examples where male players have been allowed to get away with receiving coaching, and examples where they were allowed to smash their racquet without punishment. I also would like examples where a male player has got away with calling an umpire a liar and a thief. She seemed like a nasty piece of work on the clip I saw tbh. I think we would need examples from across men's and women's tennis with a clear difference either way. Even if he did go way further than he had before, one incident isn't proof of sexism or racism. Bad refereeing performances happen all the time in all sports. A Widnesian in Ireland blog What is the best system for Super League? An honest appraisal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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