Death to the Rah Rah's Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 Can anyone highlight the last time Town or Reds were averaging over 5,000 to watch their games? I would hazard a guess that it was the 1950's when pro RL was relatively new to the area and Reds had just been admitted to the Football League. Which begs the question, does the area need an 8,000 capacity stadium and what cost savings would be made by reducing the capacity to a more manageable 5,000? There has been a huge shift in the way people watch sport and the next big thing is streaming games for subscribers. Bradford Bulls have started to do this, the Championship stream all midweek games which allows away supporters to follow their team from the comfort of their own home. The demand for modern stadia with large capacities will decrease as clubs look for income streams which are cheaper to run and potentially increase audiences globally with exiled Town supporters over the world able to sign up to watch games, as well as the local 'armchair supporters which have slightly more than a passing interest in Town or Reds, but can't be arsed to go to the stadium on matchdays. In all fairness I think Mark is getting a bit of a 'digging' on here for highlighting concerns which in all fairness should have been part of any initial proposal. Basic things like 'how the stadium will be financed' affects all of the rate payers in the Borough, unless funding is being raised by selling off Council land to make the project cost neutral. West Cumbria is a backwater and the stadium certainly would be an asset to the area, indeed the only modern stadium in the county, but it as to be paid for and needs to be sustainable. I would hope the Council have already carried out due diligence to ensure this is the case, but at the minute it all seems a very rushed process purely in the hope of bringing a RL World Cup game to the county in a couple of years time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 8 minutes ago, The Voodooguru said: Of course nobody can see into the future ( Well maybe GT can...) But hand on heart David taking into account both teams current situations, also if you like using both supeleague and Carlisle United attendances as a yardstick, and the state of RL in general can you see a scenario where an 8000 capacity stadium in Workington is full on a regular basis? Currently no but this is for a long time , decades , so no one knows . Any investor down the line will be much more amenable seeing this kind of stadium and development in front of them . It’s a major and optimistic step forward and great for the whole area . Many other events can be attracted , and fill this kind of stadium , and the whole area gets the benefits . I think we have to look at the upsides , the benefits and the possibilities over the long term for the club and beyond . Many new stadia don’t get filled but better surroundings is a better attraction for potential fans to turn up and us long suffering fans ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voodooguru Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 13 minutes ago, DavidM said: Currently no but this is for a long time , decades , so no one knows . Any investor down the line will be much more amenable seeing this kind of stadium and development in front of them . It’s a major and optimistic step forward and great for the whole area . Many other events can be attracted , and fill this kind of stadium , and the whole area gets the benefits . I think we have to look at the upsides , the benefits and the possibilities over the long term for the club and beyond . Many new stadia don’t get filled but better surroundings is a better attraction for potential fans to turn up and us long suffering fans ! I love your optimism and agree with much of it, at the back of my mind it niggles me that the only reason it is an 8k stadium is for this WC game. If that is true then it is ridiculous, if it is because they are planning to hold a host of events in there to utilise it to pay for it then I have no issue. The race is not always to the swift nor the battle to the strong, but thats the way to bet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onreport Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, The Voodooguru said: I love your optimism and agree with much of it, at the back of my mind it niggles me that the only reason it is an 8k stadium is for this WC game. If that is true then it is ridiculous, if it is because they are planning to hold a host of events in there to utilise it to pay for it then I have no issue. Fantastic asset for the whole of the west and of course If we have any ambitions of moving up the leagues, it is at least 1 box ticked off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 11 minutes ago, The Voodooguru said: I love your optimism and agree with much of it, at the back of my mind it niggles me that the only reason it is an 8k stadium is for this WC game. If that is true then it is ridiculous, if it is because they are planning to hold a host of events in there to utilise it to pay for it then I have no issue. I sincerely thank you for those opening words . Must be a first ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Route66 Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 Realistically reducing the capacity to 5000 won't save much money unless it involves leaving a full end empty,I would say the designs are great and will produce a stadium to be proud of,town should aim for super league and reds for the football league, there is too much small minded ,little Englander thinking and not enough people with vision in the area,just wish all parties could unite on this matter instead of trying to derail things just because they might not benefit or get praise. As for wasting public money that Mr Jenkinson is so concerned about,he may need to consider his campaining with Ukip and the £142 million pounds cost just to run the ballot and the mess it has made since Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
town4me Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 An 8k stadium is for the purpose of staging events. RLWC and gigs etc. Its about having the facility in our town to stage bigger things. Correct me if i am wrong bit isn't The whole concept a multi use stadium. Why cut it to 5k if it can be 8k? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieTownie Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 I don’t know what all the fuss is about. If it self financed through office rental and then provides the council with a further income stream once the loan is repaid I can’t see why anyone would be against it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeandawayer Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 I remember when Dewsbury built their new stadium and the first time I went the lack of ambition hit me in the face. We shouldn't fall into that trap, DP holds about 6k so we need to have the facilities to attract big games but not be empty and lacking atmosphere like Donny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockerlad Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 it's more than just a stadium for town and reds and I'd guess we will only be a small part of it. conference facilities, offices community use, concerts the list is endless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voodooguru Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 4 hours ago, DavidM said: I sincerely thank you for those opening words . Must be a first ! What that we agree? And there was me thinking we shared a kinship on here..... The race is not always to the swift nor the battle to the strong, but thats the way to bet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 50 minutes ago, The Voodooguru said: What that we agree? And there was me thinking we shared a kinship on here..... Ha , me being optimistic . Being a town fan tries to knock that out of you ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
town4me Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 1 hour ago, rockerlad said: it's more than just a stadium for town and reds and I'd guess we will only be a small part of it. conference facilities, offices community use, concerts the list is endless Exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unicorn106 Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 5 hours ago, Route66 said: Realistically reducing the capacity to 5000 won't save much money unless it involves leaving a full end empty,I would say the designs are great and will produce a stadium to be proud of,town should aim for super league and reds for the football league, there is too much small minded ,little Englander thinking and not enough people with vision in the area,just wish all parties could unite on this matter instead of trying to derail things just because they might not benefit or get praise. As for wasting public money that Mr Jenkinson is so concerned about,he may need to consider his campaining with Ukip and the £142 million pounds cost just to run the ballot and the mess it has made since Money well spent if they deliver the wishes of the 17.4 million majority and get us out........sorry about that, but I couldn't help myself. This is not a political forum and I should know better. won't happen again....honest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Frisky Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 Money in a new stadium is in the prep and the panning - to go from 5000 to 8000 is minimal All those who are asking the last time town or reds got over 7K - who knows but I do know that for the RL WC and the RL 4 Nations we got around 7K for each match so to have any chance of matching that we need a decent stadium. What chance do we have of attracting investors if we only have a small 5K stadium? Just because we are in West Cumbria doesn't mean we have to give up all hope of some ambition - even though by the look of things most marras want us yo give up. Let's just leave things as they are then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
town4me Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 Some of the negativity towards this project on forums and social media is astounding. I'd agree (like other pro stadium people) that it has to be sustainable,viable and cost effective or it shouldn't go ahead. It will be the death of both clubs apparently. Isn't thats whats slowly happening as things stand now. Too many looking at it as the stadium just being for town and reds (two clubs with poor support) full stop. when if you look at it in detail thats not the case. Some pre-historic attitudes showing through i think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derwent Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 If every club built their new stadium based on their average attendance we'd have some pretty small ones. St Helens have an 18k capacity but average 12k, Warrington have a 15k capacity stadium but average 9k (were only averaging 5k when they built the HJ), Widnes have a 13k capacity stadium but average 5k etc etc. The key to these new stadiums is to have infrastructure that allows the stadium to be self-funding. I've mentioned this before but Warrington's stadium generates more income from non-RL activities than it does from the RL side of things through things like the NHS facilities and conference suites etc which are built into the infrastructure. If done properly a new stadium can be a real asset to the community and the clubs involved. I’m not prejudiced, I hate everybody equally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miaow Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 I think its a fantastic opportunity for the area to host sports vents concerts the list goes on if we are smart in the planning phase there is no reason why we cant build a stadium that is sustainable, for me the drawings look great I would like to think we can build a state of the art stadium and consider our environmental footprint there are some fantastic schemes out there that can reduce the cost of stadiums PIR lighting (office spaces) rain water harvesting (storage of rainwater to flush toilets etc) solar panels (rather than taking form the grid) own wind turbine reduced pricing on bring your own cup schemes (reducing waste and packaging) thinking ahead to the future electric car charging stations wont be long before were all driving them apologies for the earthy green in me appearing but it is a fantastic opportunity to lead the way looking after the environment in the sporting world some off the wall ideas but well worth considering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanMac Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 The crux of the success or otherwise of a new stadium will be how the facilities are used outside its primary use as a sports complex. If the stadium is affordable it is a no brainer to develop it as it can only raise the profile of an area that has been in the doldrums far to long. The section below is from a report regarding a stadium build in York. It clearly shows that if the right decisions are taken with regard to lettable space and you get the right partners on board it is possible to have a stadium that is self funding. We can only hope that the correct decisions are being made and that the rush to meet the deadline of the rlwc doesn’t bring on board poor decision making. “In summary the broad brush information provided within this report demonstrates that the design of any stadium can result in a viable business in terms of:- • The stadium with respect to its capital cost being largely funded by the income generating tenants who are incorporated within and around the stadium complex. • It is also clear that the greater accommodation provided (as was the case with Fig. 3 and at Preston and Oldham) the more the deficit between cost and value (income) is reduced. • In fact, in simplistic terms the new £9M East Stand at Preston generates an income from the local PCT of approximately £500K per annum. The “funding” of £9M for the stand is totally funded by this £500K p.a. income over a 25 year period (because no profit element is required by the developer/owner). In comparison therefore to the “traditional model” a tenant driven stadium is the basis upon which many modern stadia (particularly for those clubs at lower level) are developed. There are good and bad examples of this but the undeniable conclusion must be that if done correctly a new stadium can be largely self funding and create excellent lettable space which is sustainable for a number of user types.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
townie88 Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 Agree. The stadium needs to be one that is used outside of a Saturday and Sunday afternoon. And it looks Like it will! A decent size function room would provide valuable income outside of the town and reds games. Hosting corporate nights, charity evenings, private functions with a bar would be great. Not many new, modern function rooms in the town now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unicorn106 Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 12 hours ago, town4me said: Some of the negativity towards this project on forums and social media is astounding. I'd agree (like other pro stadium people) that it has to be sustainable,viable and cost effective or it shouldn't go ahead. It will be the death of both clubs apparently. Isn't thats whats slowly happening as things stand now. Too many looking at it as the stadium just being for town and reds (two clubs with poor support) full stop. when if you look at it in detail thats not the case. Some pre-historic attitudes showing through i think. Which forums are being negative ? It's hard to believe there are people out there who don't want this. Only in West Cumbria, it wad the same last time when they held a referendum on the combined stadium and sports centre, no other area in the country would have voted against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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