Is Nigel happy with what he left behind?

[Rupert Prince]

3 hours ago, JohnM said:

Agreed. Magic is rubbish. Really upsets me seeing all those fans enjoying themselves, meeting up with mates from other clubs, enjoying a weekend away, celebrating our sport. How dare they? This is rugby league - it's not meant to be fun.

Wigan v Saints at indeed a great game, no where it is played... whether it be Manchester or Miami.

But so what?  Be as smart alec as you like, but what benefit is does the wider game get out of it.  There was some talk (wasn't there?) that Magic would promote the game in the area it was played it.  But has it? Indeed by moving the game periodically it would seem to impede such efforts.  Certainly by playing both semis at Bolton it made a good occasion, not least on national tv. But what extra benefit or gloss accrues when we see the game behind a pay wall.

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

 

Woods biggest problem was he knew the price of everything and the value of nothing. There wasnt a penny he couldnt pinch. There wasnt a cost he couldnt cut. Wood struggled to see the value of in things that didnt immediately bring money back in. Everything he couldnt see as having a direct revenue we did cheaply if at all. We did dipped our toes rather than commit, we started small and presented small then when it wasnt big ditched it. Wood's RFL lacked ambition, it lacked inspiration, it lacked commitment and it lacked a clear idea of what it was.

This was ultimately my biggest issue with Wood, and having a finance guy in charge overall. I think they can make a decent 2nd in command, but a visionary in charge would provide a better balance.

The constant focus on ROI was a problem, particularly when things got a bit tighter.

[JohnM]

7 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

Wigan v Saints at indeed a great game, no where it is played... whether it be Manchester or Miami.

But so what?  Be as smart alec as you like, but what benefit is does the wider game get out of it.  There was some talk (wasn't there?) that Magic would promote the game in the area it was played it.  But has it? Indeed by moving the game periodically it would seem to impede such efforts.  Certainly by playing both semis at Bolton it made a good occasion, not least on national tv. But what extra benefit or gloss accrues when we see the game behind a pay wall.

A real "what have the Romans ever done for us" response, I have to say. Whatever was promised would not suffice. I was unable to go this year, but when i have been, I've had a great time and the event has played a part in maintaining my interest, support and enthusiasm for the sport.  

[Cowardly Fan]

21 minutes ago, Dave T said:

This was ultimately my biggest issue with Wood, and having a finance guy in charge overall. I think they can make a decent 2nd in command, but a visionary in charge would provide a better balance.

The constant focus on ROI was a problem, particularly when things got a bit tighter.

I agree with that, though it is quite common companies have people from finance backgrounds in the top role. 

One thing I'd note is Wood had to cope with a reduction in funding from the government. I'm sure his detractors would argue it was his responsibility to secure that funding, that's true to an extent but they reduced funding to sport overall so it would have been difficult to maintain funding. That reduction in funding made some cuts necessary, which was always going to make him unpopular - I'm not sure there was an alternative to cutting a large amount of development officers. 

[Damien]

3 hours ago, JohnM said:

Agreed. Magic is rubbish. Really upsets me seeing all those fans enjoying themselves, meeting up with mates from other clubs, enjoying a weekend away, celebrating our sport. How dare they? This is rugby league - it's not meant to be fun.

Is that the point of it? I always thought that the purpose of Magic was as expansion event to take the game to new audiences and expand the game. Has the event grown since the first year? Has it achieved those goals? Attendances are largely the same and the vast majority of people attending are people like yourself, not new people to the game. I don't also see any evidence in a great upsurge in development in places where Magic has taken place either. If the who point of Magic is for a weekend Jolly for ###### up Northerners then there is little point in it or the needless repeat fixture.

[JohnM]

15 minutes ago, Damien said:

Is that the point of it? I always thought that the purpose of Magic was as expansion event to take the game to new audiences and expand the game. Has the event grown since the first year? Has it achieved those goals? Attendances are largely the same and the vast majority of people attending are people like yourself, not new people to the game. I don't also see any evidence in a great upsurge in development in places where Magic has taken place either. If the who point of Magic is for a weekend Jolly for ###### up Northerners then there is little point in it or the needless repeat fixture.

Unecessary polarisation. Not the whole point, of course, for everyone, all the time. For me, a good enough point. 

[The Daddy]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

Is that the point of it? I always thought that the purpose of Magic was as expansion event to take the game to new audiences and expand the game. Has the event grown since the first year? Has it achieved those goals? Attendances are largely the same and the vast majority of people attending are people like yourself, not new people to the game. I don't also see any evidence in a great upsurge in development in places where Magic has taken place either. If the who point of Magic is for a weekend Jolly for ###### up Northerners then there is little point in it or the needless repeat fixture.

Absolutely agree. 

[JohnM]

Touthcing on his remuneration, and that of his successor, The Times notes that England Rugby Unions new  defence coach is expected to get paid £300k a year, and will not even be living in England.

[JohnM]

7 minutes ago, The Daddy said:

Absolutely agree. 

Have either of you ever been?

[bobbruce]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

Is that the point of it? I always thought that the purpose of Magic was as expansion event to take the game to new audiences and expand the game. Has the event grown since the first year? Has it achieved those goals? Attendances are largely the same and the vast majority of people attending are people like yourself, not new people to the game. I don't also see any evidence in a great upsurge in development in places where Magic has taken place either. If the who point of Magic is for a weekend Jolly for ###### up Northerners then there is little point in it or the needless repeat fixture.

In the early years the local area paid to host it I don’t think they do anymore but I’m not 100% on that. What we do get is 6 TV games at the same location with minimum set up costs for Sky as once the are set up that’s it for the weekend. So even if you take out the money saved on set up costs we still get four extra games than we would on a normal weekend. 

[Damien]

21 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Have either of you ever been?

Yes but that's irrelevant anyway to whether the event is a success, meets it's aims or serves a purpose.

[17 stone giant]

Do the positives of the Magic weekend outweigh the negatives? If they do, then overall it's a worthwhile event to have, irrespective of whether it meets its original objectives or not. The attendances seem pretty good and have been consistent over the years, so I'd have to conclude that people seem to enjoy going to it. I think it's a good idea, and I like that it's possible to move it to different venues. It's already been to Cardiff, Edinburgh, Manchester and Newcastle, so hopefully some non-regular fans from those areas will have gone along.

 

[JohnM]

2 hours ago, Damien said:

Yes but that's irrelevant anyway to whether the event is a success, meets it's aims or serves a purpose.

It's not irrelevant. It does, though, make your minority views even more irrational. For me and for many others in attendance, many more of them than post negative views on here, Magic Weekends have been  thoroughly memorable and enjoyable.

[The Daddy]

4 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Wood has some skills, and isnt a complete buffoon. He did manage to 'get things done' in some ways, unfortunately too many of the things he got done werent the right things to do.

Wood struggled with the more 'blue sky thinking' needed to move the game forward. He was fine at the politicking needed to heard cats at the RFL and accountancy was in his bones.

What Wood lacked was a vision for the sport, an idea of what he wanted it to look like in 5 years, in 10 years, in 15 years. He lacked the ability to foresee the changes in the broadcasting environment, he lacked the ability to create a vision and then implement a cogent plan to achieve that vision. Too often led, not enough leading.

Woods biggest problem was he knew the price of everything and the value of nothing. There wasnt a penny he couldnt pinch. There wasnt a cost he couldnt cut. Wood struggled to see the value of in things that didnt immediately bring money back in. Everything he couldnt see as having a direct revenue we did cheaply if at all. We did dipped our toes rather than commit, we started small and presented small then when it wasnt big ditched it. Wood's RFL lacked ambition, it lacked inspiration, it lacked commitment and it lacked a clear idea of what it was.

This all day long. Scotland playing games in Cumbria being one example, did he not see the potential long term benefit of showcasing premium games in Scotland itself? That was just criminal, what was even the point of including them in the comp without a long term plan, the game there is now almost non existent. Should've just focused on France.

Another example....outsourcing to consultants the league structure of the sport they came up with jeopardy and the 8s which commercially turned into a disaster just as I predicted, He outsourced the future of the sport to people who have next to no understanding of it. When the 8s was mooted Martyn Sadler who's opinion I respect said it was uninspiring and looked like an idea drafted up by an accountant and history has proved him to be absolutely right, viewing figures and attendances are down and we are back to where we started in terms of the league structure. This was the idea that he presented to the clubs. 

Nigel was a bureaucrat and not a blue sky thinker as has been rightly pointed out, alot of chickens coming home to roost coz of this guy in tandem with incompetent club owners. 

 

[The Daddy]

3 hours ago, JohnM said:

Have either of you ever been?

Rubbish as always, but I don't expect much from a seasoned troll. 

[JohnM]

22 minutes ago, The Daddy said:

Rubbish as always, but I don't expect much from a seasoned troll. 

Wrong. I have sincerely held evidence based views that this forum has a scattering of miserable naysayers who moan about anything and everything all the time.

[Damien]

53 minutes ago, JohnM said:

It's not irrelevant. It does, though, make your minority views even more irrational. For me and for many others in attendance, many more of them than post negative views on here, Magic Weekends have been  thoroughly memorable and enjoyable.

Minority? Have you the results of that poll or are you just resorting to making things up.

Also of course me going or not is irrelevant to whether the event is a success or has a purpose, just as is you deeming it a success because you like a weekend away with your friends. An event not growing one iota since it's inception and playing to the same set of fans who would just as readily go to the same match in Wigan or Leeds should not be deemed a success on anyone's CV. That is after all what this discussion was about, not whether you or I personally like it.

[TBone]

I think Magic is a marmite situation - you either like the idea of spending the weekend binging on RL or you don't. I'm very much in the don't category -  I once watched 3 premiership finals in a row at Old Trafford (was it?) and didn't really enjoy it that much.

However, as others have pointed out, it isn't really going anywhere. The crowd size doesn't seem to increase - they've probably got all the fans who want a 6 game RL binge. It doesn't seem to engage many local people (which newcomer would want to watch 6 games in a row?) other than to service the needs of the travelling RL fans. It is behind a paywall so the TV audience is pretty much stagnant, so few new viewers.

BUT it is an event that a fair few fans would like to keep (and the clubs share the revenue so they all get cash that weekend). No problem. But, rather than just carry on, the RFL/SLE should at least look at any potential there is to grow it and promote the hell out of it.

[17 stone giant]

42 minutes ago, TBone said:

It doesn't seem to engage many local people (which newcomer would want to watch 6 games in a row?)

I just looked at the website and for this years Magic, you could buy tickets starting at £12.50 for the day, or £20 for the weekend. Even if you just watched one match, or one match on each day, that's pretty good value.

[Kirmonds pouch]

On 9/19/2018 at 10:52 AM, Damien said:

Catalans was under Richard Lewis. Celtic Crusaders was under Wood's watch though.

The Magic Weekend isn't anything to shout about. It's a simple marketing gimmick that hasn't grown since Day 1 and still relies on the same fans that would go to watch their clubs at home anyway.

As for the rest it's pretty basic stuff in my book and any competent CEO would have achieved the same or better. Hopefully that would be without decimating the youth and amateur game and getting rid of development officers which happened with Wood.

I love magic weekend and so do many others and I think it’s a huge success and well worth shouting about. However in the insular myopic world that many so called fans on here live in they would rather put a downer on a couple of days that adds a bit of glamour and something different somewhere different.

Only RL fans could be stupid enough to dismiss something like this which amongst other things is a nice little earner for the game - a game in case you’re unaware is cronically short of dosh.

Give your head a shame.

[Damien]

52 minutes ago, Kirmonds pouch said:

I love magic weekend and so do many others and I think it’s a huge success and well worth shouting about. However in the insular myopic world that many so called fans on here live in they would rather put a downer on a couple of days that adds a bit of glamour and something different somewhere different.

Only RL fans could be stupid enough to dismiss something like this which amongst other things is a nice little earner for the game - a game in case you’re unaware is cronically short of dosh.

Give your head a shame.

Hold on a second. I'm quite easy when it comes to Magic, it really doesn't bother me if it stays or goes. 

This discussion started because some deem it a success and a notch on Wood's CV. I don't as the event hasn't grown, hasn't really been sold to a new audience and attendances and revenue are probably down on what the same set of fixtures would generate at their normal grounds anyway. Indeed it has been shuttled about to various venues where it has always seen a decline until moved again elsewhere. It also adds an extra repetitive fixture which granted will happen anyway whilst they persevere with loop fixtures.

If anything it is a typical Rugby League. A good initial idea that hasn't been grown or improved upon. Much like things like the video ref and how it is still only being used in televised games whilst someone like RU quickly stole the idea and improved it by using it in all games.

As for give your head a shame - Grow up. If you haven't a clue the discussion you are wading into and can't post like a grown up then don't bother.

[Kirmonds pouch]

45 minutes ago, Damien said:

Hold on a second. I'm quite easy when it comes to Magic, it really doesn't bother me if it stays or goes. 

This discussion started because some deem it a success and a notch on Wood's CV. I don't as the event hasn't grown, hasn't really been sold to a new audience and attendances and revenue are probably down on what the same set of fixtures would generate at their normal grounds anyway. Indeed it has been shuttled about to various venues where it has always seen a decline until moved again elsewhere. It also adds an extra repetitive fixture which granted will happen anyway whilst they persevere with loop fixtures.

If anything it is a typical Rugby League. A good initial idea that hasn't been grown or improved upon. Much like things like the video ref and how it is still only being used in televised games whilst someone like RU quickly stole the idea and improved it by using it in all games.

As for give your head a shame - Grow up. If you haven't a clue the discussion you are wading into and can't post like a grown up then don't bother.

Don't like being told you're wrong do you - expected as much.

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

Hold on a second. I'm quite easy when it comes to Magic, it really doesn't bother me if it stays or goes. 

This discussion started because some deem it a success and a notch on Wood's CV. I don't as the event hasn't grown, hasn't really been sold to a new audience and attendances and revenue are probably down on what the same set of fixtures would generate at their normal grounds anyway. Indeed it has been shuttled about to various venues where it has always seen a decline until moved again elsewhere. It also adds an extra repetitive fixture which granted will happen anyway whilst they persevere with loop fixtures.

If anything it is a typical Rugby League. A good initial idea that hasn't been grown or improved upon. Much like things like the video ref and how it is still only being used in televised games whilst someone like RU quickly stole the idea and improved it by using it in all games.

As for give your head a shame - Grow up. If you haven't a clue the discussion you are wading into and can't post like a grown up then don't bother.

I'm not sure I'd agree with some of your criticisms of the event. 

To address the specifics:

- The event hasn't grown - whilst I think there is far more we can do (use fresh grounds that excite people, live bands, create a festival buzz) - the event has grown, even if it is modest. Last year was 15% higher than year 1. The last 4 years in Newcastle have an average that is 10% higher than the previous 8 years.

- Revenue being down - not sure this would be the case, although difficult to quantify. This round has a title sponsor, contributes to the value of the TV deal, and all customers are paying. I don't think Super League would necessarily have 65k paying speccies in a regular round.

- New audience - I disagree, it has taken the game to Cardiff, Edinburgh, Newcastle, Manchester - I'd rather we rotated it more and took it to more places, but we have seen good things in Newcastle on the back of it, and Scotland had a far more engaged RL community when Magic was in Edinburgh. I still know a few people at work whose only exposure to RL was Magic at Murrayfield.

[Cowardly Fan]

I think one of the main benefits is it gives us visibility. A normal round of games doesn't do that. Sky seem like it as well, though hard to quantify any impact on TV contract.

Also, not sure if the host pays a fee? I know I've seen estimates of it bringing a few million to the local economy, so it's certainly possible.