Would any other buisness.............

[Harry Stottle]

............ that developed a product which was gaining momentum in interest, decide to ditch it whilst still in it's relative infancy, or would they sit round the table in the boardroom and the forward more dynamic thinking would say "you know what guy's we could really be on to something here, why not give it a good dose of looking at, promote it, invest in it, advertise it, give it a budget and a time scale to moniter and evaluate to see if we can grow it". And whilst it has been in process it has also prooved have encouraging knock on effects with our second tier products that could see them grow bigger and better and get more saleable to both the close and wider public.

Then we get the old Chairman and aged Board members set in their ways, averse to changing the company's tried and trusted but nevertheless tired ways of working, they are very protectionist of their products and set about policies and proceedures that will in the near future ringfence those commodities, they also intend to bring to the offer some add on's which are monotinously close to the catalogued items, and will limp along losing customers till they retire.

Sound familiar, this is present day Rugby League at work, the middle 8's with some work can be nurtured to flouish, it has improved in each of the years it has been in existance, the first season only Bradford and Leigh would be expected to make a small dent, this year the Championship has had six clubs vying for the top 4 spots, 5 of them up to the last day of the season, and that excitement/entertainment has not diminshed when joining the 4 from SL, who is to say that moneymen/financiers would not invest in other clubs in the Championship if a portfolio was produced to sell it.

But no, have the same old, with the inclusion of the energised, invigorating loop fixtures to top up the season (yawn), the auto P&R won't last long it will soon be a closed shop, the Championship will revert back to one maybe two strong clubs and decline as in the last round of licencing.

I can't help but think that the SLE and the RFL have missed a glorious opportunity to bring an energetic approch to the game - albeit some hard work would have to be done - but have decided to revert back to a tried format that failed the last time wherby they have decided to stand still, and we all know what happens to companies that stand still, they go backwards and eventually go out of business, good luck with that Leneghan and Co.

[Man of Kent]

We already have loop fixtures. They are called the Super 8s.

The Qualifiers are interesting to the cognoscenti but ultimately they are an act of self-harm. 

I’m looking forward to a month-long Top 5 play-off series in both divisions much more than another series of fixtures between the 9th-16th best clubs in British rugby league.

[GUBRATS]

Just now, Man of Kent said:

We already have loop fixtures. They are called the Super 8s.

The Qualifiers are interesting to the cognoscenti but ultimately they are an act of self-harm.

I’m looking forward to a month-long play-off series in both divisons much more than another series of fixtures between the 9th-16th best clubs in British rugby league.

And potentially a couple of 3/4 months of ' friendlies ' between the rest , rivetting

[Man of Kent]

Just now, GUBRATS said:

And potentially a couple of 3/4 months of ' friendlies ' between the rest , rivetting

An opportunity to blood young players in preparation for another crack next year. Same as in other sports.

[GUBRATS]

Just now, Man of Kent said:

An opportunity to blood young players in preparation for another crack next year. Same as in other sports.

Hope the fans turn out for it then

[Man of Kent]

Just now, GUBRATS said:

Hope the fans turn out for it then

That’s up to the clubs, isn’t it? Maybe have a heritage round or kids go free or £10 tickets. 

[Niels]

I think some way to keep the middle eights should have been found. It has generated a lot of media interest and been a great success this year. 

The games have been very exciting and dramatic. 

The million pound game was gaining momentum similar to the football league play off game to get to the premier league. 

 

[Man of Kent]

2 minutes ago, Niels said:

The million pound game was gaining momentum similar to the football league play off game to get to the premier league. 

 

They are keeping that but changing it to be between two Championship clubs. As it should be 

[Oliver Clothesoff]

Rugby League’s problem has always been patience, or the lack of. 

We’ve never given anything a chance for a long enough period for it to become a proper part of the game. That goes for formats of Super League too. 

Maybe all that needed to be done with the Super 8’s was a tweak that placed more interest in the fourth place for the play-off’s to give more meaning to games for the teams 6th, 7th and 8th. 

[GUBRATS]

4 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

They are keeping that but changing it to be between two Championship clubs. As it should be

It might well be this year , but we dont know yet , exciting innit

[Just Browny]

Each Middle 8s comp is interesting, but it is a whirlpool and, if you are are Hull KR or Salford, you can quite easily see yourself spending the next 20 years going through the same process. No stability, no progression, living week-to-week.

I am glad it's gone and that promoted teams now have a better chance of some stability.

[Harry Stottle]

18 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

That’s up to the clubs, isn’t it? Maybe have a heritage round or kids go free or £10 tickets. 

Even before the season starts you are finding ways of giving up income, is that because you expect the system will not produce the produce the required interest, I don't, and by the way the "loop" fixtures seemingly are already causing consternation, when the question was posed to Elstone by Brian Carney how they would be formated and who would play who either by finishing position in this years table or some other means, he simply answered "I don't know", brilliant, a concept has been thrown into the mix without any prior thought or deliberation, it is destined not to be a success, but as I eluded to before, it will not matter, anything predating the next TV contract is only a stop gap for the return of a closed shop. When that eventuates in the words of the panel on Dragon's Den "I'm out" and I do not think I will be on my own.

[Harry Stottle]

1 minute ago, Just Browny said:

Each Middle 8s comp is interesting, but it is a whirlpool and, if you are are Hull KR or Salford, you can quite easily see yourself spending the next 20 years going through the same process. No stability, no progression, living week-to-week.

I am glad it's gone and that promoted teams now have a better chance of some stability.

How will the promoted teams recruit Browny? 

It will be the last game of the season before promotion will be confirmed for any club, would you expect a Blake Austen to sign for a chamionship club? Likewise Bryson Goodwin signed for Leigh but jumped ship when they were relegated, how many SL quality players would sign for a champ club till promotion is secured, and by the lack of that type of quality being in abundance those players would have secured contracts elsewhere.

[PREPOSTEROUS]

Wasn't the championship grand final gaining momentum before it was ditched? A genuine finale to the lower tier which generated 20k crowd? Isn't that much better than two failed clubs playing out in front of 6-7k?

[Scubby]

Just now, PREPOSTEROUS said:

Wasn't the championship grand final gaining momentum before it was ditched? A genuine finale to the lower tier which generated 20k crowd? Isn't that much better than two failed clubs playing out in front of 6-7k?

Reward for winning and being successful? Why hasnt anyone thought of this idea before?

Why do we constantly attempt to place failure and bang average. With due respect to the likes of Halifax they should be aiming to win promotion through Championship play off not be striving to earn a few quid because a struggling Leeds and Salford comes to town.

[Just Browny]

15 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

How will the promoted teams recruit Browny? 

It will be the last game of the season before promotion will be confirmed for any club, would you expect a Blake Austen to sign for a chamionship club? Likewise Bryson Goodwin signed for Leigh but jumped ship when they were relegated, how many SL quality players would sign for a champ club till promotion is secured, and by the lack of that type of quality being in abundance those players would have secured contracts elsewhere.

Well you've certainly highlighted some of the right issues about P&R - I don't disagree with them. So I don't understand why your solution is to stick with the most extreme form of it, where at least eight teams are unable to recruit with any certainty until the end of the year.

[Harry Stottle]

22 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

Well you've certainly highlighted some of the right issues about P&R - I don't disagree with them. So I don't understand why your solution is to stick with the most extreme form of it, where at least eight teams are unable to recruit with any certainty until the end of the year.

Not strictly true Browny, firstly why would the SL clubs not be able to have an ongoing recruitment programme just as your club has recently undertook? all SL clubs are financed to be able to spend up to funding they recieve, nearly £2 M.

Secondly in this present system those Championship clubs with serious intentions of promotion equip their teams playing roster for their end of season spat with the SL clubs, in any new format they would only have to compete with other Championship clubs to gain promotion, and as already been mooted there may be both a leveling of funding i.e. no prize money applicable - which means a reduction in funding  for some - and also a reduced SC spend, taking them further away from being able to make the transition to SL to do as you say   "promoted teams now have a better chance of some stability" I honestly can't see how that would work, but I am open to being educated, fire away.

[Harry Stottle]

51 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Reward for winning and being successful? Why hasnt anyone thought of this idea before?

Why do we constantly attempt to place failure and bang average. With due respect to the likes of Halifax they should be aiming to win promotion through Championship play off not be striving to earn a few quid because a struggling Leeds and Salford comes to town.

Same question to your good self Scubby as I posed to Browny.

[The Blues Ox]

SL has become stale and boring, filled with robot players but you simply can't have a lower tier competition been more popular than what is considered to be the big show. The problem in our sport rather than think of ways to make SL more attractive they will cut off the legs of those below them to try and ensure they are never caught.

[nec]

1 hour ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Rugby League’s problem has always been patience, or the lack of. 

We’ve never given anything a chance for a long enough period for it to become a proper part of the game. That goes for formats of Super League too. 

Maybe all that needed to be done with the Super 8’s was a tweak that placed more interest in the fourth place for the play-off’s to give more meaning to games for the teams 6th, 7th and 8th. 

Not patience, more finance. If cash is being haemorrhaged by the current system, we cannot afford to sustain it until it gets better. Middle 8's are interesting this year, the other two competitions are moribund

 

[Scubby]

10 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Same question to your good self Scubby as I posed to Browny.

Well we could do something revolutionary like hold the Championship GF in early September. Or we could be even more revolutionary and play the Championship GF as a curtain raiser to the Challenge Cup final at Wembley late August - it would create an amazing buzz!

If you wanted more fixtures after that then have an old premiership style play-off or something. I don't really know.

[DavidM]

Middle 8s were great as they were from a level start . Pity they couldn’t find some way to do that in the top 8s and it’d be more interesting . There must be some way to reward league position but also not have it so potentially squewed from day 1

[GUBRATS]

10 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Well we could do something revolutionary like hold the Championship GF in early September. Or we could be even more revolutionary and play the Championship GF as a curtain raiser to the Challenge Cup final at Wembley late August - it would create an amazing buzz!

If you wanted more fixtures after that then have an old premiership style play-off or something. I don't really know.

That will come after 2021 , the British [ only ] National Championship GF played in August [ not as a curtain raiser to anything ] after the season starts on Boxing day , then leaving the franchised SL to get on with their totally seperate competition conclusion

 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

As I've said a few times, I s the merits in both and would like to have made adjustments for both. 

A Grand Final is very important for the Championship. It began attracting huge crowds. 

The MPG and the Qualifiers were getting lots of media interest and neutral interest. 

An earlier finish to the Championship season would give time for a Grand Final (and give the promoted team more time to recruit). Once the GF AND SL seasons have finished, a 3-week Qualifier series between 11th and 12th in SL and next two in Championship. Top team qualifies. Other 3 go into Championship. 

[Harry Stottle]

37 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

I'll be honest, the 8's have worked a lot better than I imagined. And they've definitely created excitement and some good contests. So I was wrong about that.

However, its still focussing on what's equally average rather than what's going on at the top end of the table - that seems to get scant coverage/comment. (And I know that's because the middle 8's are more exciting but it shouldn't be the case) For example, the relegation battles in the Premier League get a lot of coverage and it's emotional for the fans concerned - but it doesn't overshadow who wins the PL or gets into the Champions League. The main focus should be on the best teams, not the also rans.

If people are going to argue that it should be decided on the pitch, then Toronto should already be promoted.

 

I don't get this John, if championship clubs can invest to compete with SL clubs on their much reduced resources, why can that not be reversed to say SL clubs are given much much more funding so Championship clubs should get nowhere near them, as you must have thought originally given your first sentance.

Is the SC not working from its original concept of spreading around the available talent so no teams domineer the rest, the evidence says definatley not or tgere woukd be more and different names than just the 4 who gave won the Grand Final, it will not change (albeit I would love to see Cas victorious this year) by any great number of different teams for a long time if ever.

It is just an excuse and protectionism that it is stated there is no interest at the top, the system makes it that way, there will always be 3 divisions within SL those in the middle ground, the bottom dwellers, and the top will be competed for by the *usual suspects.

This is what makes the Super 8's boring if there had been say 4 points difference from top to 8th position in SL this season, we would have had two great thought and interest provoking competitions.

*Just yesterday Wigans financial returns for 2017 were revealed, it shows they had an opertaing loss of £430K an improvement on 2016 of 600K loss, a nice Million in 2 years, Leneghan says, it cost him to bring in new players to improve the team, BUT he can afford to do that, others can't, that is why those at the top will maintain the differential by on field success, for the SC to work all owners would have to be rich enough to really level the field out.