Expressions Of Interest Sought For New 'Southern Premier League'.

[bbfaz]

The problem is, there was a deadline and then it was extended to allow teams more time.  The list I saw after the deadline was the above list plus Oxford, minus any Midlands clubs and Saltash.

As I recall, the original criteria were never going to be friendly to Bath RL.  They had to finish in the top 3 of their league to be considered and they didn't even make the West of England Super 5s this season.  Realistically, only three teams could've applied; All-Golds, Swindon and Reading, the latter of whom are only two years old.

The other side might be complicated too.  9 teams were targeted and now it has been all been announced to other clubs, there are issues and doubts from the clubs that have been left out because there's no backup plan for them.  From what I've seen, they feel cut adrift and relegated to a merit league format.

[MidlandsRugbyLeague]

"National Southern" ?

 

[CambridgeBlue]

Where are Hemel on the list of approved applicants for the League?

[Styx]

The only list published on here so far is the one for the West. Hemel will be in the East list which has not been made public as yet, to the best of my knowledge.

[Marauder]

On ‎11‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 6:55 PM, bbfaz said:

The problem is, there was a deadline and then it was extended to allow teams more time.  The list I saw after the deadline was the above list plus Oxford, minus any Midlands clubs and Saltash.

As I recall, the original criteria were never going to be friendly to Bath RL.  They had to finish in the top 3 of their league to be considered and they didn't even make the West of England Super 5s this season.  Realistically, only three teams could've applied; All-Golds, Swindon and Reading, the latter of whom are only two years old.

The other side might be complicated too.  9 teams were targeted and now it has been all been announced to other clubs, there are issues and doubts from the clubs that have been left out because there's no backup plan for them.  From what I've seen, they feel cut adrift and relegated to a merit league format.

You can make a case that the growth of the NCL doing this in areas that provide more than one club and also where kids have been directed by the service areas to leave one team to join another but I suppose when your at the top it's easy to say sink or swim.

[bbfaz]

17 hours ago, Marauder said:

You can make a case that the growth of the NCL doing this in areas that provide more than one club and also where kids have been directed by the service areas to leave one team to join another but I suppose when your at the top it's easy to say sink or swim.

This shouldn't really be an issue.  A couple of years ago, it probably wouldn't have been.  However, the game in the South is inherently transient.  We've all heard the stories going back for as long as the game has been played in London.  Things haven't changed that much.  OK, we're not marking out pitches with bags of flour but facilities are in short supply, local authorities aren't all that helpful (even the ones who should be) and everybody's position is a little bit tenuous at any given point.

But we're light on teams.  There need to be more teams but I can't magic them up.

[bbfaz]

20 hours ago, Styx said:

The only list published on here so far is the one for the West. Hemel will be in the East list which has not been made public as yet, to the best of my knowledge.

From last season:
London Premier plus London & SE Championship grand finalists plus East Premier grand finalists.

[Marauder]

3 hours ago, bbfaz said:

This shouldn't really be an issue.  A couple of years ago, it probably wouldn't have been.  However, the game in the South is inherently transient.  We've all heard the stories going back for as long as the game has been played in London.  Things haven't changed that much.  OK, we're not marking out pitches with bags of flour but facilities are in short supply, local authorities aren't all that helpful (even the ones who should be) and everybody's position is a little bit tenuous at any given point.

But we're light on teams.  There need to be more teams but I can't magic them up.

Take a look at the York league as an example or even Castleford district, before the rise of the NCL clubs in these areas you had plenty of pubs sides at all standards, the growth of the NCL clubs in both areas more or less coincided with the decline in the pub teams, you can look at this from both angles I suppose, while it has brought the standard up on the playing field and given the game a well run competition it also reduced the opportunities for the guys who simply can't make the grade.

[Marauder]

On ‎11‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 6:24 PM, DoubleD said:

Am surprised Bath didn’t make the cut. Disappointed Devon or Cornwall didn’t, particularly when travel was meant to be subsidised, they’re really out the loop down there now. 

Are Telford and Sherwood Forest the 2 Midlands ones?

I think West Wales should concentrate on getting a first team out first! A 2nd team could play friendlies as and when.....

Seems a bit odd, wasn't the RFL was touting Bath for the championship 1

[Impartial Observer]

1 hour ago, Marauder said:

Seems a bit odd, wasn't the RFL was touting Bath for the championship 1

No, that was someone from All Golds touting Bristol

[RoverBear]

Bristol and Bath are the same, right?

[bbfaz]

3 hours ago, RoverBear said:

Bristol and Bath are the same, right?

The same club or the same place?

[Celtic Rooster]

17 hours ago, RoverBear said:

Bristol and Bath are the same, right? 

No

[RoverBear]

20 hours ago, bbfaz said:

The same club or the same place?

Place...

[MidlandsRugbyLeague]

6 hours ago, RoverBear said:

Place...

If you mean, "In the same way that Bradford and Huddersfield are the same place", then yes.

[bbfaz]

To be fair, Bristol is probably closer to Bath than Bath RL's ground is.

Should have more info next week.

[Jasper]

On ‎11‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 11:53 AM, bbfaz said:

London Premier plus London & SE Championship grand finalists plus East Premier grand finalists.

Isn't it 8th December when they announce the new leagues?  If the above criteria is right, wonder if they will they just 'lump' all the remaining teams from London & SE Champ and East league together in a  league below the new NCL South ? 

[bbfaz]

12 hours ago, Jasper said:

Isn't it 8th December when they announce the new leagues?  If the above criteria is right, wonder if they will they just 'lump' all the remaining teams from London & SE Champ and East league together in a  league below the new NCL South ? 

I don't know when the teams are formally announced.  However, there is a meeting next Monday with the invited teams to make some initial decisions about it, such as season structure.

I don't think there is a plan for the remaining teams, certainly not right now.  I was told that the remaining London & SE teams, plus any 2nds, are expected to play in some sort of merit structure, which helped make a couple of minds up as to whether to go for this new league or not.  This doesn't represent a change for Richmond or Elmbridge and would likely suit the 2nds (who want to play double-headers anyway) but it represents relegation for Medway and Newham.  In the east, it would leave just St Ives, Brentwood and St Albans as the only "serious" teams.  Luton and Southend struggled for numbers and MK collapsed. 

I would make you right, with the situation with the remaining sides, there needs to be some sort of league smushed together from the remaining East Prem and L&SE Champ teams.   Give it a unique brand so it doesn't follow the Southern Premier branding they're going for at the moment.  I know Newham fancy they could still do a proper league and they'd fancy their chances against all of the East sides.  Brentwood and St Albans could do Newham and Medway (and whoever else) but it's a big ask for St Ives.

This is why I have said repeatedly, we need a new way to encourage the creation of new teams.  If it's offering expertise, if it's somebody trying to source playing fields.   I genuinely don't know the best way to approach it but there's no money to throw at the problem.  We need a creative solution to expansion.

[JM2010]

13 hours ago, bbfaz said:

I don't know when the teams are formally announced.  However, there is a meeting next Monday with the invited teams to make some initial decisions about it, such as season structure.

I don't think there is a plan for the remaining teams, certainly not right now.  I was told that the remaining London & SE teams, plus any 2nds, are expected to play in some sort of merit structure, which helped make a couple of minds up as to whether to go for this new league or not.  This doesn't represent a change for Richmond or Elmbridge and would likely suit the 2nds (who want to play double-headers anyway) but it represents relegation for Medway and Newham.  In the east, it would leave just St Ives, Brentwood and St Albans as the only "serious" teams.  Luton and Southend struggled for numbers and MK collapsed. 

I would make you right, with the situation with the remaining sides, there needs to be some sort of league smushed together from the remaining East Prem and L&SE Champ teams.   Give it a unique brand so it doesn't follow the Southern Premier branding they're going for at the moment.  I know Newham fancy they could still do a proper league and they'd fancy their chances against all of the East sides.  Brentwood and St Albans could do Newham and Medway (and whoever else) but it's a big ask for St Ives.

This is why I have said repeatedly, we need a new way to encourage the creation of new teams.  If it's offering expertise, if it's somebody trying to source playing fields.   I genuinely don't know the best way to approach it but there's no money to throw at the problem.  We need a creative solution to expansion.

There needs to be some kind of pyramid below the Southern Premier getting more regionalised the further down the pyramid it goes. This would require more teams to be created but would help expand the game in the south

[bbfaz]

On 12/7/2018 at 3:54 PM, JM2010 said:

There needs to be some kind of pyramid below the Southern Premier getting more regionalised the further down the pyramid it goes. This would require more teams to be created but would help expand the game in the south

I think we all understand what needs to be done but nobody knows how to do it, including the RFL, who've concentrated on "consolidation" and watched numbers dwindle.

[costa]

Some of my fave RL playing moments in London. Sad to see how far things have deteriorated since, only talking early 2000s.  

[bbfaz]

5 hours ago, costa said:

Some of my fave RL playing moments in London. Sad to see how far things have deteriorated since, only talking early 2000s.  

The big difference between now and then is that there used to be money and development officer resource.  Once that tap was turned off for open age clubs, it has been a struggle and a labour of love.  Furthermore, we're ten years removed from the credit crunch but sponsors are still reluctant to put money up.

A number of clubs didn't exist before they were announced by the RFL/RLC, who would then put development officer resource into creating a club and recruiting players.  Real cart-before-the-horse stuff.

[Impartial Observer]

 

6 hours ago, bbfaz said:

 

A number of clubs didn't exist before they were announced by the RFL/RLC, who would then put development officer resource into creating a club and recruiting players.  Real cart-before-the-horse stuff.

Which clubs were these?

[bbfaz]

19 hours ago, Impartial Observer said:

 

Which clubs were these?

The one I remember quite profoundly was Essex Eels.  Had a chat with a friend and he vaguely remembers them doing a similar astroturfing experiment in Northampton.  He thinks that perhaps Bristol Sonics came to be in a similar way but locals came along and took it on.

At junior level, most of the South London junior clubs at a certain point seemed to be created this way.  The ones that survived brought in local admins/parents who took it on.  Some of them seemed to exist in name only.

[bbfaz]

On 11/22/2018 at 1:40 PM, Wiltshire Rhino said:

Confirmed so far are

All Golds

Torfean Tigers

Valley Cougars

Cardiff Dragons

Swindon St George 

That will be it for 2019 apparently.  Five teams, triple round robin, teams that have been rejected have been encouraged to get their acts together and try again next year.