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Wayne Bennet tells Sam Burgess to sit out Autumn Tests


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Plus, Sam does seem a bit bullet proof when it comes to League fans (maybe it is the defensive mode from the idiots saying he failed in the other code).

If other forwards made half the errors he did (including his brothers) everybody would be calling for him to be dropped.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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25 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Plus, Sam does seem a bit bullet proof when it comes to League fans (maybe it is the defensive mode from the idiots saying he failed in the other code).

If other forwards made half the errors he did (including his no brothers) everybody would be calling for him to be dropped.

Couldn't agree more. I've only seen him excel in that one semi final in 2013 for England.

Most other times he is solid, offering good quality work.

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2 hours ago, Dunbar said:

Plus, Sam does seem a bit bullet proof when it comes to League fans (maybe it is the defensive mode from the idiots saying he failed in the other code).

If other forwards made half the errors he did (including his brothers) everybody would be calling for him to be dropped.

How many errors has he made?

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5 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

How many errors has he made?

I have pasted below my comment from the England squad thread (posted before we heard Burgess had withdrawn)

……………………………………………..

If we are talking about discipline then Sam Burgess is the bigger worry... he is 6th in the NRL this year on penalties conceded despite missing a few games.  Add to this the most errors of any forward in the league (28).

To put it into context, Sam made 28 errors in 23 games played while the much more maligned Tom Burgess made just 9 errors in 27 games played.

I love watching Sam Burgess play but it can be frustrating at times, the errors in particular are holding him back from being the best forward in the world today.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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3 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I have pasted below my comment from the England squad thread (posted before we heard Burgess had withdrawn)

……………………………………………..

If we are talking about discipline then Sam Burgess is the bigger worry... he is 6th in the NRL this year on penalties conceded despite missing a few games.  Add to this the most errors of any forward in the league (28).

To put it into context, Sam made 28 errors in 23 games played while the much more maligned Tom Burgess made just 9 errors in 27 games played.

I love watching Sam Burgess play but it can be frustrating at times, the errors in particular are holding him back from being the best forward in the world today.

Comoared to SL players who’ve had rave reviews this year it isn’t so catastrophic.

Some of his stats this year, playing injured at times, are amazing, compared to ours. 

Easy option to criticise on errors alone.  The blokes a colossus of the game.

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2 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Comoared to SL players who’ve had rave reviews this year it isn’t so catastrophic.

Some of his stats this year, playing injured at times, are amazing, compared to ours. 

Easy option to criticise on errors alone.  The blokes a colossus of the game.

I said discipline as well.

Come on, I am hardly tearing the guy to shreds, he has the poorest error rate in the NRL forwards and among the worst discipline.

Is saying he would be the best forward in the world if he sorted these out such a bad thing to say?

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

I said discipline as well.

Come on, I am hardly tearing the guy to shreds, he has the poorest error rate in the NRL forwards and among the worst discipline.

Is saying he would be the best forward in the world if he sorted these out such a bad thing to say?

No ones suggesting that, but errors are only part of the story.  Mark Percival has had a great year but I bet will be up there with thise with the most errors.  It’s an unbalanced view.

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

No ones suggesting that, but errors are only part of the story.  Mark Percival has had a great year but I bet will be up there with thise with the most errors.  It’s an unbalanced view.

 

 

 

Sorry, I have to respond to this.

How can it be an unbalanced view.  I have said that I believe Sam Burgess would be the best forward in the world if he were to improve two areas of his game - his error rate and his discipline.  This means that I must think that all the other parts of his game are worthy of 'world's best' status (which I do).  Surely that is a balanced view?

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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4 hours ago, Dave T said:

Couldn't agree more. I've only seen him excel in that one semi final in 2013 for England.

Most other times he is solid, offering good quality work.

I think there is a something in this.  Not sure how far to go with it though.  I have a feeling he pushes the pass too far, not quite the passer he thinks, not the timer of one maybe, not out of the tackle. Hence in the tight position we get an error.

But I am not sure if I am being unfair.  Certainly once the opposition tire then he ought to come in to his own.

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33 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Sorry, I have to respond to this.

How can it be an unbalanced view.  I have said that I believe Sam Burgess would be the best forward in the world if he were to improve two areas of his game - his error rate and his discipline.  This means that I must think that all the other parts of his game are worthy of 'world's best' status (which I do).  Surely that is a balanced view?

On balance, probably!  I think you know what I’m getting at regarding errors.  Take away his aggression and there’d be less errorss, but less dynamism, metres, Pro tackle metres, dominant tackles etc.  

Difficult to compare the SL stats with NRL, but some can be.  Not going to go through what I found but comparing his stats with our best performers is interesting.

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Sam has been clearly playing injured for a while. He was actually pretty poor through the finals, and looking in need of some running repairs. This series will be a good test of England's depth, with proven experienced world class players like Hall, Watkins, Widdop, Roby and Burgess all out. Good chance for Williams, Percival etc to really step up. 

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I was disappointed to learn that he won't be playing, but having read his comments, I can understand why he isn't. If by having the operations now, it means that we can have him playing at the top level for a few more years, then it's worth the sacrifice. He certainly doesn't come across as someone who would choose to miss matches, unless it was absolutely necessary. I wish him a speedy recovery and look forward to seeing him in an England shirt again next year.

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