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London in Superleague

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8 hours ago, londonrlfan said:

This always comes up, but they're not interested. I want us to be a club for Londoners and locals anyway, not drunk Aussies on a holiday. We can attract locals playing the sport, now we need to start attracting more fans. This issue is the players come from all over the South East and even the Midlands, so they can't keep travelling over for every game. Ealing is the third biggest borough in London and has no FL club or top flight Union, in fact Broncos are probably the most high profile team in the borough. That's 343k population, I realise a lot are non English speaking as a first language, so we have to target primary schools and secondary schools. Get the youngsters interested. 

It is a bit rough to describe all 250,000 Aussie & Kiwi's in London as being on a drunken holiday! For example my sister has been living and working in London for 10 years and now has UK citizenship! Aussie & Kiwis have made a big contribution to the Broncos an Anzac day game would recognize that. Have London Aussie vs KIwis as curtain raiser, some cultural performances, antipodean food and drinks, make a $1 donation per one off ticket sold to the Anzac war memorial. Then you make it an annual event and work on getting some back as regulars.  Getting Northerners now living in London to come to again after there team has played the broncos & getting more people to travel down from the north are all quick wins for the club. Obviously the Broncos need to create more awareness and  attract more support from Ealing were they are based.

Edited by kiwis 13 6
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1 hour ago, kiwis 13 6 said:

It is a bit rough to describe all 250,000 Aussie & Kiwi's in London as being on a drunken holiday! For example my sister has been living and working in London for 10 years and now has UK citizenship! Aussie & Kiwis have made a big contribution to the Broncos an Anzac day game would recognize that. Have London Aussie vs KIwis as curtain raiser, some cultural performances, antipodean food and drinks, make a $1 donation per one off ticket sold to the Anzac war memorial. Then you make it an annual event and work on getting some back as regulars.  Getting Northerners now living in London to come to again after there team has played the broncos & getting more people to travel down from the north are all quick wins for the club. Obviously the Broncos need to create more awareness and  attract more support from Ealing were they are based.

One off events might be ok - but the basis of the fans should be people that live in and around the area and are likely to stay there for the foreseeable future.

You could spend money trying to attract Aussies/Kiwis/Northerners/etc who may come to a few games and then be in another country or city the next season

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1 hour ago, bazza_merged said:

One off events might be ok - but the basis of the fans should be people that live in and around the area and are likely to stay there for the foreseeable future.

You could spend money trying to attract Aussies/Kiwis/Northerners/etc who may come to a few games and then be in another country or city the next season

The Broncos need some quick wins to boost crowds as there current season average in the Championship is 861. Many rugby league following Aussies/Kiwis/Northerners now live in London permanently if you can get them to come once and then keep coming you can boost crowds. If anyone knows a few quick wins to boost crowds from the local Ealing area all power to them, but building following from local area could be a long term project.

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4 hours ago, bazza_merged said:

One off events might be ok - but the basis of the fans should be people that live in and around the area and are likely to stay there for the foreseeable future.

You could spend money trying to attract Aussies/Kiwis/Northerners/etc who may come to a few games and then be in another country or city the next season

I think both approaches are needed, long term strategies to locals as well as events to attract tourists. The more people the better the atmosphere and the more likely they are to return.

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On 10/10/2018 at 1:33 PM, scotchy1 said:

Trailfinders is a facility worse than 9th/10th tier football stadiums. We dont have a solution for that problem, we are just ignoring it and pretending that it doesnt matter. Its typical of the sport at the moment which has taken far too many decisions that arent to address problems but simply ignore them or give up.......(then you said)....

 Next season London will exist in a sub-par facility and one of the poorer squads in SL, they will rely on David Hughes subsidy and either go pop or get relegated.

You ranted on from you usual position on the sidelines about how the game should find London a modern ground to grow the club from, despite there being simply no money to do this. You criticised the game from the sidelines big style, then when pulled you backed straight off and said that they wouldn't last a season in Superleague.?........So why do you want to spend massive slabs of other peoples money when the club are probably only in SL temporarily?

They only got in because the championship fought off Lenegan's 10 club SL leaving two places to fill by clubs that have no money. One in London Broncos who exist because Mr. Hughes is still happy to bankroll them at a lowish level which is his business not yours, and seemingly Salford who may not get any more behind the scenes handouts from Koukash

On 10/13/2018 at 5:52 PM, 17 stone giant said:

Was Richard Branson not such a character when he got involved with London in 1997? I don't know - maybe he didn't spend what Argyle would. There might be reasons why it didn't work out for Branson. I expect people here will know better than I do, because you've followed the game more closely.

Branson was only half interested for his son's sake. Of course he is rich enough to buy or rent a nice stadium in London and fund a large player development programme for the capital, and buy the best players he can. People forget when London were flying high games against Paris, Wigan and Brisbane were 10,000 attendances. The London sporting public knew darn well they were there, it was still a loss maker so Branson left declaring the club as such.

On 10/13/2018 at 6:26 AM, GeordieSaint said:

That would be amazing if true. An Argyle-type character would make London a powerhouse...

Trouble with Fantasy RL is people ignore the reality. Superleague don't want TWP and those silly long haul trips to a country that has rejected RL for a third time as no other clubs have followed TWP. HOWEVER as Danny Lockwood pointed out they do want Argyle's money. They do want his offer to provide a solvent competitive club to make up the 12, they do want to keep TWP's SL money to share between themselves, and they do want the publicity that the press are still swallowing that RL is to explode around the globe with Scotchy your pilot to Perth W.A.

If there is a way forward for London it is in Argyle's hands to stop being stubborn and concede there is to be no Transatlantic league. Then they need him to buy into London on a serious level.........

Which has BTW already happened but it flew largely under the Radar because he was at the same time extolling the virtues of working class Philadelphia as the next NA stop on the bus to a Transatlantic League and a &Billion dollar TV deal with thousands of young North American RU players turning to league.

The Argyle  stake in London Skolars was not a full takeover and their current Chairman assured Skolars were not going to Philadelphia, but exactly what Argyle was up to nobody knew or really cared about discussing as they already had TWP, NY and Philadelphia in their fantasy bag - half way to the six required for the fantasy Transatlantic league.

It may be as Ngwati and Burroughs are at Skolars?? This is Argyles young player development offering, following his daft Manchester academy stunt to fend of the criticism TWP won't develop players. However that surely clashes with Broncos claim to be the club dealing with London player development. 

If anyone wants a more realistic dream that could become reality then it's one where globe trotting Argyle eventually (after letting the TWP fans down gently) takes a full stake in London RL and invests heavily to achieve his personal dream of owning a professional club at the top table.

He chose the ridiculous Perez plan and it's all a mess and a sham, had he just taken a stake in Skolars in the first place instead this would have given him what he wants (full membership) given him far more grass roots support here than 30 dreamers on a website, and a massive real life boost to the game here.......

Edited by The Parksider
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Yes but now Toronto are an actual RL Club with real fans, the sport cannot just abandon them, betray them, they are now in the same boat as all the rest of the clubs outside of Super League, only with much more massive operating costs needing to be covered. Losing Toronto would be a massive blow to the reputation of RL and a huge embarrassment, the union lot are waiting to pounce on this epic failure waiting to happen. That's why ppl on here are desperate to prop them up and give them a free run in SL without fear of relegation, we've made a rod for are own backs. 

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2 hours ago, The Parksider said:

You ranted on from you usual position on the sidelines about how the game should find London a modern ground to grow the club from, despite there being simply no money to do this. You criticised the game from the sidelines big style, then when pulled you backed straight off and said that they wouldn't last a season in Superleague.?........So why do you want to spend massive slabs of other peoples money when the club are probably only in SL temporarily?

They only got in because the championship fought off Lenegan's 10 club SL leaving two places to fill by clubs that have no money. One in London Broncos who exist because Mr. Hughes is still happy to bankroll them at a lowish level which is his business not yours, and seemingly Salford who may not get any more behind the scenes handouts from Koukash

Branson was only half interested for his son's sake. Of course he is rich enough to buy or rent a nice stadium in London and fund a large player development programme for the capital, and buy the best players he can. People forget when London were flying high games against Paris, Wigan and Brisbane were 10,000 attendances. The London sporting public knew darn well they were there, it was still a loss maker so Branson left declaring the club as such.

Trouble with Fantasy RL is people ignore the reality. Superleague don't want TWP and those silly long haul trips to a country that has rejected RL for a third time as no other clubs have followed TWP. HOWEVER as Danny Lockwood pointed out they do want Argyle's money. They do want his offer to provide a solvent competitive club to make up the 12, they do want to keep TWP's SL money to share between themselves, and they do want the publicity that the press are still swallowing that RL is to explode around the globe with Scotchy your pilot to Perth W.A.

If there is a way forward for London it is in Argyle's hands to stop being stubborn and concede there is to be no Transatlantic league. Then they need him to buy into London on a serious level.........

Which has BTW already happened but it flew largely under the Radar because he was at the same time extolling the virtues of working class Philadelphia as the next NA stop on the bus to a Transatlantic League and a &Billion dollar TV deal with thousands of young North American RU players turning to league.

The Argyle  stake in London Skolars was not a full takeover and their current Chairman assured Skolars were not going to Philadelphia, but exactly what Argyle was up to nobody knew or really cared about discussing as they already had TWP, NY and Philadelphia in their fantasy bag - half way to the six required for the fantasy Transatlantic league.

It may be as Ngwati and Burroughs are at Skolars?? This is Argyles young player development offering, following his daft Manchester academy stunt to fend of the criticism TWP won't develop players. However that surely clashes with Broncos claim to be the club dealing with London player development. 

If anyone wants a more realistic dream that could become reality then it's one where globe trotting Argyle eventually (after letting the TWP fans down gently) takes a full stake in London RL and invests heavily to achieve his personal dream of owning a professional club at the top table.

He chose the ridiculous Perez plan and it's all a mess and a sham, had he just taken a stake in Skolars in the first place instead this would have given him what he wants (full membership) given him far more grass roots support here than 30 dreamers on a website, and a massive real life boost to the game here.......

Jesus Christ that's a lot of effort to make yourself look silly. 

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Who realistically would want to watch either live or on TV a 10 team competition, think back to the day's of 3 divisions, wasn't that rivetting viewing for the fan's of the middle division club's eh?  If you want another indication of what it would become take a look at speedway: Premier division, TV contract, but no income from it, small number of top clubs, getting smaller all the time, ageing spectator base,also getting smaller, and multiple fixtures against the same club's again and again and zero profile.   RL's already making it's way down the same pathway, but whilst a 10 team premier Division might give Lenaghan and his cronies a bigger slice of the pie now it would reduce the size of the whole pretty dam quick.

Whatever we may think RL isn't some big secret just waiting to be discovered by the rest of the world who will then lavish cash and untold praise on it, show me any other sport that's been in existence for over a hundred years and achieved that.  We are what we are and should take any opportunities eg TWP that come along whilst we can.

 

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A ten team Super League with 18 fixtures followed by a top 5 playoff gives a real opportunity to have a three or four week international window mid-season, and an opportunity to do something with the Challenge Cup. The game is in the state its in because it's not seen as valuable enough for Sky to pay at the level that would sustain a fully professional all teams spending the cap competition, or as a viable sport for another terrestrail broadcaster to get behind. Keep doing the same thing and you'll keep getting the same results. Shifting emphasis to Tests is our best chance of increased national profile and relevance, and thus corporate and TV income streams.

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3 hours ago, The Parksider said:

You ranted on from you usual position on the sidelines about how the game should find London a modern ground to grow the club from, despite there being simply no money to do this. You criticised the game from the sidelines big style, then when pulled you backed straight off and said that they wouldn't last a season in Superleague.?........So why do you want to spend massive slabs of other peoples money when the club are probably only in SL temporarily?

They only got in because the championship fought off Lenegan's 10 club SL leaving two places to fill by clubs that have no money. One in London Broncos who exist because Mr. Hughes is still happy to bankroll them at a lowish level which is his business not yours, and seemingly Salford who may not get any more behind the scenes handouts from Koukash

Branson was only half interested for his son's sake. Of course he is rich enough to buy or rent a nice stadium in London and fund a large player development programme for the capital, and buy the best players he can. People forget when London were flying high games against Paris, Wigan and Brisbane were 10,000 attendances. The London sporting public knew darn well they were there, it was still a loss maker so Branson left declaring the club as such.

Trouble with Fantasy RL is people ignore the reality. Superleague don't want TWP and those silly long haul trips to a country that has rejected RL for a third time as no other clubs have followed TWP. HOWEVER as Danny Lockwood pointed out they do want Argyle's money. They do want his offer to provide a solvent competitive club to make up the 12, they do want to keep TWP's SL money to share between themselves, and they do want the publicity that the press are still swallowing that RL is to explode around the globe with Scotchy your pilot to Perth W.A.

If there is a way forward for London it is in Argyle's hands to stop being stubborn and concede there is to be no Transatlantic league. Then they need him to buy into London on a serious level.........

Which has BTW already happened but it flew largely under the Radar because he was at the same time extolling the virtues of working class Philadelphia as the next NA stop on the bus to a Transatlantic League and a &Billion dollar TV deal with thousands of young North American RU players turning to league.

The Argyle  stake in London Skolars was not a full takeover and their current Chairman assured Skolars were not going to Philadelphia, but exactly what Argyle was up to nobody knew or really cared about discussing as they already had TWP, NY and Philadelphia in their fantasy bag - half way to the six required for the fantasy Transatlantic league.

It may be as Ngwati and Burroughs are at Skolars?? This is Argyles young player development offering, following his daft Manchester academy stunt to fend of the criticism TWP won't develop players. However that surely clashes with Broncos claim to be the club dealing with London player development. 

If anyone wants a more realistic dream that could become reality then it's one where globe trotting Argyle eventually (after letting the TWP fans down gently) takes a full stake in London RL and invests heavily to achieve his personal dream of owning a professional club at the top table.

He chose the ridiculous Perez plan and it's all a mess and a sham, had he just taken a stake in Skolars in the first place instead this would have given him what he wants (full membership) given him far more grass roots support here than 30 dreamers on a website, and a massive real life boost to the game here.......

Hang fire Parky. Do you like TWP or not?

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Inspired by the recent NFL thread, and the couple of pints that I've just had at lunchtime, I now have another suggestion for the league structure.

Split the teams into two conferences of four divisions, NFL style.

Western conference

North America - Toronto, New York, Los Angeles, Vancouver

Lancashire - Wigan, St Helens, Warrington, Salford

Eastern conference

Yorkshire - Leeds, Bradford, Hull, the other Hull

South/France - London, Catalan, Toulouse, Paris

I know I'm missing a few teams, so apologies if your team isn't mentioned. I either couldn't remember their name, or I couldn't find a place for them, so they've had to be omitted. All in the name of expansion though, so that makes it ok.

Anyway, you play everyone in your division home and away, and then you play matches against some teams from other divisions, all determined by a formula that I haven't yet determined. This means much less travelling across the Atlantic, hopefully.

After the regular season matches, there's a play offs, culminating in two conference finals, and then a Grand final.

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50 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

Inspired by the recent NFL thread, and the couple of pints that I've just had at lunchtime, I now have another suggestion for the league structure.

Split the teams into two conferences of four divisions, NFL style.

Western conference

North America - Toronto, New York, Los Angeles, Vancouver

Lancashire - Wigan, St Helens, Warrington, Salford

Eastern conference

Yorkshire - Leeds, Bradford, Hull, the other Hull

South/France - London, Catalan, Toulouse, Paris

I know I'm missing a few teams, so apologies if your team isn't mentioned. I either couldn't remember their name, or I couldn't find a place for them, so they've had to be omitted. All in the name of expansion though, so that makes it ok.

Anyway, you play everyone in your division home and away, and then you play matches against some teams from other divisions, all determined by a formula that I haven't yet determined. This means much less travelling across the Atlantic, hopefully.

After the regular season matches, there's a play offs, culminating in two conference finals, and then a Grand final.

What were you drinking?


- Adepto Successu Per Tributum Fuga -

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Parky - You wrote - 

Quote

They only got in because the championship fought off Lenegan's 10 club SL leaving two places to fill by clubs that have no money. One in London Broncos who exist because Mr. Hughes is still happy to bankroll them at a lowish level which is his business not yours, and seemingly Salford who may not get any more behind the scenes handouts from Koukash

  Then spend the rest of the post suggesting Mr Argyle spend his money on London.

  Why denigrate clubs and then suggest other club/clubs survive by exactly the same means?

   I was also under the impression that Toronto have more than just a couple of very rich people backing them.

   I get the impression that one or two of the elite clubs aren't exactly swimming in the money - despite over a century of time in the heartlands.


     No reserves,but resilience,persistence and determination are omnipotent.                       

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5 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

A bit of the old Expansion ale. Very popular round these parts.

expansion.jpg

Travels well but needs handling with care. Not to be mistaken for bitter.


- Adepto Successu Per Tributum Fuga -

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On 10/16/2018 at 9:20 AM, Smudger06 said:

Now Toronto are an actual RL Club with real fans, the sport cannot just abandon them, betray them......

Losing Toronto would be a massive blow to the reputation of RL and a huge embarrassment, we've made a rod for are own backs. 

Nigel Wood and nobody else made that rod for Superleagues back. Also remember that the "betrayal" is all Perez's. He promised more players and more North American clubs and then proposed a transatlantic league that would kill clubs here. Do you not recall Superleague clubs Paris being abandoned? Do you not recall Wales being abandoned, do you not recall the first Gateshead being abandoned? 

Yet somehow the Canadians are "special"? As for the "Massive blow" Smudger, as above the rest of the Sporting World have seen RL expansion fail again and again for many years why do you think anyone outside our game give a monkeys? How do you see this disadvantaging us? It hasn't before?

20 hours ago, zorquif said:

Hang fire Parky. Do you like TWP or not?

This is irrelevant. Yes I like all RL people of course I do, why would I not, even though I've had over two years of abuse from some of their fans on here!! All this is a matter of is what is best for Superleague. Do you think it's best for Superleague that it goes Transatlantic and TWP and five more alleged NA clubs replace six SL clubs here and 180 players here are transferred to Canada as they won't produce any players in the timescale suggested probably never as RU grows apace there. That is the plan which Perez is following as simple as.

Why can't you question that? Why can't you question Perez? Is he a messiah to you?

18 hours ago, Angelic Cynic said:

Parky -  Why denigrate clubs and then suggest other club/clubs survive by exactly the same means? (suggesting)  Mr Argyle spend his money on London.

I was also under the impression that Toronto have more than just a couple of very rich people backing them.   I get the impression that one or two of the elite clubs aren't exactly swimming in the money - despite over a century of time in the heartlands.

I'm not denigrating anyone AC. When it comes to Mr. Hughes's London remember the lad has been putting his families money in since 1996. We should all thank him for that. In 2005 when Virgin left he was about to close the club when he and Tony Rea decided to carry on and carry on they did. By 2014 he was struggling having lost Ian Lenegan along the way, and his family had concerns about how much he personally was losing. He's now found a ground he can afford and settle into and he can afford Championship full time wages, plus with RFL help he keeps the academy going. All respect to this legendary RL man. For people like Scotchy to demand even more of the man is intolerable and disrespectful.

The "means" by which London Broncos survive would be dwarfed by the means by which London Skolars could survive and prosper if David Argyle pumped  his $Millions of dollars in there. Argyle has a very real stake in the club and so we are not talking fantasy RL here, as the Skolars chairman states Skolars WILL stay in London and WILL NOT move to Fantasyland.

David Lawrenson wrote the piece on Bronco's 2005 resurrection and he took the view that "We need a Superleague club in London try selling priceless sponsorships and advertising to a major international company when the sport is only played at top level along the M62" 

This is very much the Perez argument, but the means by which he wants to make the game more expansive is actually destructive if you take six SL clubs out of Superleague and replace them with six North  American clubs. This is where you get your "impressions" from. Perez's two years plus of big talk that has seen no more big investors actually following TWP.

Why do you not get it that they are not really there?  

And so in the real world as opposed to Perez's fantasy world (which I would say to Smudger is not challenged by anyone in the game here because that will be an embarrassment if the reality was realised) we can expand Superleague to make the game more viable, with TWO clubs in London and TWO clubs in France. in the top two divisions.

People can scoff all they like but that is a bigger reality than a Transatlantic league and in addition we can increase the player development straight away with clubs like London Skolars and Toulouse Olympic rather than waiting 20 years!!

You choose? The reality of an expanded European League or the Fantasy of a Transatlantc League

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We’re back to the “what’s the best format” discussion, are we? No wonder we’re changing formats every few years if Rugby League’s decision makers are as indecisive and bipolar as the game’s fans. 

We’ve got a “new” format and whether we as a collective like it or not, we as a game have to run with it and hope it works out, giving it more than three years to ‘work’.  

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All the Broncos need do is to win something (BIG) to kickstart RL fans coming back with some consistency.

A year of being tonked weekly next season by SL clubs would spell disaster as the 8 seasons between 2007 -2014 showed.  The Broncos were bottom 4 in each of the years & the crowds dwindled. Being relegated to the Championship has done the club a power of good.  It was certainly absolute raw courage getting back into SL but can't help feeling this promotion has taken London Broncos a little by surprise - along with a lot of others.  The League Leaders Shield, the Challenge Cup or Grand Final winners will now be ours!!! ;)  

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7 minutes ago, londonbronco said:

All the Broncos need do is to win something (BIG) to kickstart RL fans coming back with some consistency.

A year of being tonked weekly next season by SL clubs would spell disaster as the 8 seasons between 2007 -2014 showed.  The Broncos were bottom 4 in each of the years & the crowds dwindled. Being relegated to the Championship has done the club a power of good.  It was certainly absolute raw courage getting back into SL but can't help feeling this promotion has taken London Broncos a little by surprise - along with a lot of others.  The League Leaders Shield, the Challenge Cup or Grand Final winners will now be ours!!! ;)  

For the last twenty years, we have been hearing appeals to gather all the rugby league fans from across London.  This is clearly stupid, as St Helens fans move to Humberside to not suddenly start supporting Hull FC or KR and there is no reason why London should be different.

The mission is to identify a large audience in Ealiing that is not catered to.  It is not rugby fans, there are not that many.

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"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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We went to the Broncos game this season,couple of mates had Leigh shirts on, we was in a pub in Ealing Broadway before the game, couple of locals asked which team we supported ,and we asked them if they went to any games, they replied no as they thought of it as a northern game.

On the walk to the ground ,we must have took a wrong turning along the way, so we asked a couple if they knew where London Broncos played,we might as well have spoken in Chinese,when we mentioned Ealing Trailfinders ,they knew straight away.

Do Londoners see the game as a northern sport and that is why they don't bother?.

If London are going to stay at Ealing for the foreseeable future,would they be not better calling themselves Ealing Broncos ,to identify themselves with the local people.

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23 minutes ago, red rose said:

We went to the Broncos game this season,couple of mates had Leigh shirts on, we was in a pub in Ealing Broadway before the game, couple of locals asked which team we supported ,and we asked them if they went to any games, they replied no as they thought of it as a northern game.

On the walk to the ground ,we must have took a wrong turning along the way, so we asked a couple if they knew where London Broncos played,we might as well have spoken in Chinese,when we mentioned Ealing Trailfinders ,they knew straight away.

Do Londoners see the game as a northern sport and that is why they don't bother?.

If London are going to stay at Ealing for the foreseeable future,would they be not better calling themselves Ealing Broncos ,to identify themselves with the local people.

The whole country sees it as a northern sport. Except those parts of the north where the game isn't played.

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"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."

Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

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If that is the case,then we might as well tell clubs such as Coventry,Hemel etc to shut down and save RL some money.

Surely one of the first jobs of the likes of Rimmer and Elstone is to change that view

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2 minutes ago, Monkey Lover said:

Give Skolars, Newcastle, Hemel, North Wales etc the help they need to become well supported sides with pathways from school age to first team. This was all in place until the RFL made several community officers redundant. 

Not wishing to derail the thread, but we have a pathway up here, it (rightly) got some mention on here when announced earlier this year. It's also produced a couple of players into Cru's 1st team...and covers Anglesey to the Cheshire border :)

 

On-topic....I really hope Jaz stays at London for the coming season. Immediate impact when he joined Cru and is still one of my favourite players 

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cru....Cru.....CRUSADERS!!!!!!

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