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11 hours ago, GeordieSaint said:

That would be amazing if true. An Argyle-type character would make London a powerhouse...

Was Richard Branson not such a character when he got involved with London in 1997? I don't know - maybe he didn't spend what Argyle would. There might be reasons why it didn't work out for Branson. I expect people here will know better than I do, because you've followed the game more closely.

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Richard Branson bought in on a whim, reputedly his son liked watching the sport on TV. He assumed he could sprinkle gold dust on the sport and it would work. Like several brands branded Virgin it didn't. Sorry but dragging a bored stupid Tiny Hadley to sing pre match and see him announce he wasn't watching the game but was off to the bar was hopeless. And that Virgin Records signed band who never had a hit only to walk out and say nice to see both of you to a crowd of 3,000. Far bigger than they ever pulled probably. He did invest money in players assuming locals would flood to watch Jason Hetherington and Ritchie Barnett etc. Sadly most people in London didn't have any idea who they were and no money was spent on marketing them in order to educate people.

There are people lurking. I hope they have done more research than Richard Branson. It's hard to over state how important the next year or so is to London RL.

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7 hours ago, Bob8 said:

They would have to work out what the local population of Ealiing would keenly buy into in an event that they do not have at the moment.  I am not sure that the answer is a higher standard of rugby league.

I agree though, Trailfinders is fine.  If they had 4,000 wealthy Ealing people attending, it would be one of the most lucrative clubs in Super League.

I only want a higher standard of rl from the Home team really!

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4 minutes ago, westlondonfan said:

I only want a higher standard of rl from the Home team really!

Good!

But we have the other 3,999 to worry about.

"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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On 10/13/2018 at 9:14 PM, Bob8 said:

The nearest equivalent to London Broncos that there has been in the North is Highfield RLFC.  They were not successful either.

There are five criteria for judging whether a club will be successful:
1. Finance.  They need backing.
2. Location.  You need a host town that has a big enough audience, either with a tradition or a large affluent potential audience.  e.g. not Bridgend.
3. Suitable ground.  A stable location, good price, and appropriate facilities. e.g. not as London Broncos has been.
4. Management team.  Having the basic sense to appeal to the audience you have (young professionals in Ealing) rather than the trying to market to your own youth.   
5. A reasonable owner.  He should not be more famous than any of the players.

Any team that tick all five of these will be successful.  

IS that Runcorn Highfield club the side that were perennially last in the 3rd division and moved all over Cheshire and Lancashire? there results had more in common with west wales in the modern era though. On the field London's Bronco's are a reasonably successful club making a challenge cup final & winning the million pound game.  There is at least one more factor to a sustainable successful club that is having an amateur participation in the area and pathway to for youth development pathway into the professional game, London Broncos ticks that box. 

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38 minutes ago, kiwis 13 6 said:

IS that Runcorn Highfield club the side that were perennially last in the 3rd division and moved all over Cheshire and Lancashire? there results had more in common with west wales in the modern era though. On the field London's Bronco's are a reasonably successful club making a challenge cup final & winning the million pound game.  There is at least one more factor to a sustainable successful club that is having an amateur participation in the area and pathway to for youth development pathway into the professional game, London Broncos ticks that box. 

You make good points about the comparison with Highfield.  However, I cannot think of another club in the north that has moved a few hours travel away every few years. 

I disagree with you about the addition of amateur participation.  At present, Toronto seem to be managing without and it will take a decade to see amateur participation filter through.  In american football, it makes very little difference and I am sure a London NFL franchise would go along quite happily.  While it is certainly advantageous, and I am thankful you raise it, I would say it correlates rather than is a requirement.

I first listed these criteria about two years ago in response to the tedious circular arguments.  In that time, no-one has been able to really refute them to my mind.  People are happy to ignore them and continue to be dull though, so no harm done.

"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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23 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

You make good points about the comparison with Highfield.  However, I cannot think of another club in the north that has moved a few hours travel away every few years. 

I disagree with you about the addition of amateur participation.  At present, Toronto seem to be managing without and it will take a decade to see amateur participation filter through.  In american football, it makes very little difference and I am sure a London NFL franchise would go along quite happily.  While it is certainly advantageous, and I am thankful you raise it, I would say it correlates rather than is a requirement.

I first listed these criteria about two years ago in response to the tedious circular arguments.  In that time, no-one has been able to really refute them to my mind.  People are happy to ignore them and continue to be dull though, so no harm done.

well there is some amateur participation in Toronto & Canada. But a local development system capable of producing local Super League players seems a long way off at present. You can get by without a development system but it means the club draws off other development and recruitment systems but then a club needs an excellent player Scouting & Recruitment team to succeed.

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Just now, kiwis 13 6 said:

well there is some ammeter participation in Toronto & Canada. But a local development system capable of producing local Super League players seems a long way off at present. You can get by without a development system but it means the club draws off other development and recruitment systems but then a club would needs a very good player Scouting & Recruitment team.

I certainly do not think it is an advantage.  It is also useful for community work.  I have been involved in community rugby for much of my life. 

Were I judging a club for Super League, I would use the five criteria I list as ones that will see failure in a few years if they are not met.  Those few years can provide enough time to scrape through, but have to be resolved to prosper as a top flight club.  I do not see the community game as being as important as that.  I do not like writing that, but it appears to be the case.

"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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21 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

I certainly do not think it is an advantage.  It is also useful for community work.  I have been involved in community rugby for much of my life. 

Were I judging a club for Super League, I would use the five criteria I list as ones that will see failure in a few years if they are not met.  Those few years can provide enough time to scrape through, but have to be resolved to prosper as a top flight club.  I do not see the community game as being as important as that.  I do not like writing that, but it appears to be the case.

What are your 5 criteria?

I'm not asking to shoot them down but I like to know other people's views. 

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9 minutes ago, JM2010 said:

What are your 5 criteria?

I'm not asking to shoot them down but I like to know other people's views. 

1. Finance.  They need backing (e.g. not Gateshead Thunder).
2. Location.  You need a host town that has a big enough audience, either with a tradition or a large affluent potential audience ( e.g. not Bridgend).
3. Suitable ground.  A stable location, good price, and appropriate facilities (e.g. not as London Broncos has been).
4. Management team.  Having the basic sense to appeal to the audience you have (young professionals in Ealing) rather than the trying to market to your own youth (e.g. not Paris St Germain or Celtic Crusaders).
5. A reasonable owner.  He should not be more famous than any of the players (e.g. not Celtic Crusaders).

"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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8 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

1. Finance.  They need backing (e.g. not Gateshead Thunder).
2. Location.  You need a host town that has a big enough audience, either with a tradition or a large affluent potential audience ( e.g. not Bridgend).
3. Suitable ground.  A stable location, good price, and appropriate facilities (e.g. not as London Broncos has been).
4. Management team.  Having the basic sense to appeal to the audience you have (young professionals in Ealing) rather than the trying to market to your own youth (e.g. not Paris St Germain or Celtic Crusaders).
5. A reasonable owner.  He should not be more famous than any of the players (e.g. not Celtic Crusaders).

I agree with all of those but I'd also add training facilities and a strong youth system. Maybe not full of local juniors but something that allows young players from wherever to have the best chance of progressing

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3 minutes ago, JM2010 said:

I agree with all of those but I'd also add training facilities and a strong youth system. Maybe not full of local juniors but something that allows young players from wherever to have the best chance of progressing

I agree those are important.  

We have also seem clubs manage without them.  You might also be surprised at how bad some of the training facilities are, though I accept that ie a benefit.

"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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London Broncos need cost effective marketing strategies for every home game. Broncos should work at getting London based supporters of Northern clubs to comeback & make London there 2nd team. Working with the clubs with bigger away followings to attract more fans to travel to London. With 200,000 Aussies and 50,000 kiwis in London probably half of them have some interest in Rugby League. Sign players they know eg: Manu Vatuvei would get Kiwis to attend. Celebrate Anzac day, invite London cultural group Ngati Ranana to perform have a BBQ & Hangi, Aussie & NZ beers, London kiwis Vs London Aussie's as the curtain raiser. For Catalans market the game to the 250,000 french who live in London get Eloi Plessier interviewed on a french community radio show, give away a few promotional tickets to French businesses in London. there are many possibilities...  

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On 10/14/2018 at 1:15 PM, kiwis 13 6 said:

London Broncos need cost effective marketing strategies for every home game. Broncos should work at getting London based supporters of Northern clubs to comeback & make London there 2nd team. Working with the clubs with bigger away followings to attract more fans to travel to London. With 200,000 Aussies and 50,000 kiwis in London probably half of them have some interest in Rugby League. Sign players they know eg: Manu Vatuvei would get Kiwis to attend. Celebrate Anzac day, invite London cultural group Ngati Ranana to perform have a BBQ & Hangi, Aussie & NZ beers, London kiwis Vs London Aussie's as the curtain raiser. For Catalans market the game to the 250,000 french who live in London get Eloi Plessier interviewed on a french community radio show, give away a few promotional tickets to French businesses in London. there are many possibilities...  

This always comes up, but they're not interested. I want us to be a club for Londoners and locals anyway, not drunk Aussies on a holiday. We can attract locals playing the sport, now we need to start attracting more fans. This issue is the players come from all over the South East and even the Midlands, so they can't keep travelling over for every game. Ealing is the third biggest borough in London and has no FL club or top flight Union, in fact Broncos are probably the most high profile team in the borough. That's 343k population, I realise a lot are non English speaking as a first language, so we have to target primary schools and secondary schools. Get the youngsters interested. 

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On 10/14/2018 at 1:15 PM, kiwis 13 6 said:

London Broncos need cost effective marketing strategies for every home game. Broncos should work at getting London based supporters of Northern clubs to comeback & make London there 2nd team. Working with the clubs with bigger away followings to attract more fans to travel to London. With 200,000 Aussies and 50,000 kiwis in London probably half of them have some interest in Rugby League. Sign players they know eg: Manu Vatuvei would get Kiwis to attend. Celebrate Anzac day, invite London cultural group Ngati Ranana to perform have a BBQ & Hangi, Aussie & NZ beers, London kiwis Vs London Aussie's as the curtain raiser. For Catalans market the game to the 250,000 french who live in London get Eloi Plessier interviewed on a french community radio show, give away a few promotional tickets to French businesses in London. there are many possibilities...  

Lobbygobbler will have a fit! 

You could go the whole hog and get Chris Warren to do the matchday presentation too.

 

- Adepto Successu Per Tributum Fuga -

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8 hours ago, londonrlfan said:

This always comes up, but they're not interested. I want us to be a club for Londoners and locals anyway, not drunk Aussies on a holiday. We can attract locals playing the sport, now we need to start attracting more fans. This issue is the players come from all over the South East and even the Midlands, so they can't keep travelling over for every game. Ealing is the third biggest borough in London and has no FL club or top flight Union, in fact Broncos are probably the most high profile team in the borough. That's 343k population, I realise a lot are non English speaking as a first language, so we have to target primary schools and secondary schools. Get the youngsters interested. 

It is a bit rough to describe all 250,000 Aussie & Kiwi's in London as being on a drunken holiday! For example my sister has been living and working in London for 10 years and now has UK citizenship! Aussie & Kiwis have made a big contribution to the Broncos an Anzac day game would recognize that. Have London Aussie vs KIwis as curtain raiser, some cultural performances, antipodean food and drinks, make a $1 donation per one off ticket sold to the Anzac war memorial. Then you make it an annual event and work on getting some back as regulars.  Getting Northerners now living in London to come to again after there team has played the broncos & getting more people to travel down from the north are all quick wins for the club. Obviously the Broncos need to create more awareness and  attract more support from Ealing were they are based.

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1 hour ago, kiwis 13 6 said:

It is a bit rough to describe all 250,000 Aussie & Kiwi's in London as being on a drunken holiday! For example my sister has been living and working in London for 10 years and now has UK citizenship! Aussie & Kiwis have made a big contribution to the Broncos an Anzac day game would recognize that. Have London Aussie vs KIwis as curtain raiser, some cultural performances, antipodean food and drinks, make a $1 donation per one off ticket sold to the Anzac war memorial. Then you make it an annual event and work on getting some back as regulars.  Getting Northerners now living in London to come to again after there team has played the broncos & getting more people to travel down from the north are all quick wins for the club. Obviously the Broncos need to create more awareness and  attract more support from Ealing were they are based.

One off events might be ok - but the basis of the fans should be people that live in and around the area and are likely to stay there for the foreseeable future.

You could spend money trying to attract Aussies/Kiwis/Northerners/etc who may come to a few games and then be in another country or city the next season

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1 hour ago, bazza_merged said:

One off events might be ok - but the basis of the fans should be people that live in and around the area and are likely to stay there for the foreseeable future.

You could spend money trying to attract Aussies/Kiwis/Northerners/etc who may come to a few games and then be in another country or city the next season

The Broncos need some quick wins to boost crowds as there current season average in the Championship is 861. Many rugby league following Aussies/Kiwis/Northerners now live in London permanently if you can get them to come once and then keep coming you can boost crowds. If anyone knows a few quick wins to boost crowds from the local Ealing area all power to them, but building following from local area could be a long term project.

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4 hours ago, bazza_merged said:

One off events might be ok - but the basis of the fans should be people that live in and around the area and are likely to stay there for the foreseeable future.

You could spend money trying to attract Aussies/Kiwis/Northerners/etc who may come to a few games and then be in another country or city the next season

I think both approaches are needed, long term strategies to locals as well as events to attract tourists. The more people the better the atmosphere and the more likely they are to return.

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On 10/10/2018 at 1:33 PM, scotchy1 said:

Trailfinders is a facility worse than 9th/10th tier football stadiums. We dont have a solution for that problem, we are just ignoring it and pretending that it doesnt matter. Its typical of the sport at the moment which has taken far too many decisions that arent to address problems but simply ignore them or give up.......(then you said)....

 Next season London will exist in a sub-par facility and one of the poorer squads in SL, they will rely on David Hughes subsidy and either go pop or get relegated.

You ranted on from you usual position on the sidelines about how the game should find London a modern ground to grow the club from, despite there being simply no money to do this. You criticised the game from the sidelines big style, then when pulled you backed straight off and said that they wouldn't last a season in Superleague.?........So why do you want to spend massive slabs of other peoples money when the club are probably only in SL temporarily?

They only got in because the championship fought off Lenegan's 10 club SL leaving two places to fill by clubs that have no money. One in London Broncos who exist because Mr. Hughes is still happy to bankroll them at a lowish level which is his business not yours, and seemingly Salford who may not get any more behind the scenes handouts from Koukash

On 10/13/2018 at 5:52 PM, 17 stone giant said:

Was Richard Branson not such a character when he got involved with London in 1997? I don't know - maybe he didn't spend what Argyle would. There might be reasons why it didn't work out for Branson. I expect people here will know better than I do, because you've followed the game more closely.

Branson was only half interested for his son's sake. Of course he is rich enough to buy or rent a nice stadium in London and fund a large player development programme for the capital, and buy the best players he can. People forget when London were flying high games against Paris, Wigan and Brisbane were 10,000 attendances. The London sporting public knew darn well they were there, it was still a loss maker so Branson left declaring the club as such.

On 10/13/2018 at 6:26 AM, GeordieSaint said:

That would be amazing if true. An Argyle-type character would make London a powerhouse...

Trouble with Fantasy RL is people ignore the reality. Superleague don't want TWP and those silly long haul trips to a country that has rejected RL for a third time as no other clubs have followed TWP. HOWEVER as Danny Lockwood pointed out they do want Argyle's money. They do want his offer to provide a solvent competitive club to make up the 12, they do want to keep TWP's SL money to share between themselves, and they do want the publicity that the press are still swallowing that RL is to explode around the globe with Scotchy your pilot to Perth W.A.

If there is a way forward for London it is in Argyle's hands to stop being stubborn and concede there is to be no Transatlantic league. Then they need him to buy into London on a serious level.........

Which has BTW already happened but it flew largely under the Radar because he was at the same time extolling the virtues of working class Philadelphia as the next NA stop on the bus to a Transatlantic League and a &Billion dollar TV deal with thousands of young North American RU players turning to league.

The Argyle  stake in London Skolars was not a full takeover and their current Chairman assured Skolars were not going to Philadelphia, but exactly what Argyle was up to nobody knew or really cared about discussing as they already had TWP, NY and Philadelphia in their fantasy bag - half way to the six required for the fantasy Transatlantic league.

It may be as Ngwati and Burroughs are at Skolars?? This is Argyles young player development offering, following his daft Manchester academy stunt to fend of the criticism TWP won't develop players. However that surely clashes with Broncos claim to be the club dealing with London player development. 

If anyone wants a more realistic dream that could become reality then it's one where globe trotting Argyle eventually (after letting the TWP fans down gently) takes a full stake in London RL and invests heavily to achieve his personal dream of owning a professional club at the top table.

He chose the ridiculous Perez plan and it's all a mess and a sham, had he just taken a stake in Skolars in the first place instead this would have given him what he wants (full membership) given him far more grass roots support here than 30 dreamers on a website, and a massive real life boost to the game here.......

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Yes but now Toronto are an actual RL Club with real fans, the sport cannot just abandon them, betray them, they are now in the same boat as all the rest of the clubs outside of Super League, only with much more massive operating costs needing to be covered. Losing Toronto would be a massive blow to the reputation of RL and a huge embarrassment, the union lot are waiting to pounce on this epic failure waiting to happen. That's why ppl on here are desperate to prop them up and give them a free run in SL without fear of relegation, we've made a rod for are own backs. 

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Who realistically would want to watch either live or on TV a 10 team competition, think back to the day's of 3 divisions, wasn't that rivetting viewing for the fan's of the middle division club's eh?  If you want another indication of what it would become take a look at speedway: Premier division, TV contract, but no income from it, small number of top clubs, getting smaller all the time, ageing spectator base,also getting smaller, and multiple fixtures against the same club's again and again and zero profile.   RL's already making it's way down the same pathway, but whilst a 10 team premier Division might give Lenaghan and his cronies a bigger slice of the pie now it would reduce the size of the whole pretty dam quick.

Whatever we may think RL isn't some big secret just waiting to be discovered by the rest of the world who will then lavish cash and untold praise on it, show me any other sport that's been in existence for over a hundred years and achieved that.  We are what we are and should take any opportunities eg TWP that come along whilst we can.

 

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