Smudger06 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Or are they stopped from knocking on the door by security in the garden, because they don't have a sexy enough name? Let's face it, it comes down to putting up artificial barriers to destroy sporting success and achievements on field to protect existing privileged positions. Shouldn't matter where a clubs home ground is or what they are called, if a club is committed to playing the sport at the highest levels possible and can gather the resources to do so, that is really all that should matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudger06 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 1 minute ago, scotchy1 said: Halifax have lost 14 super 8s games in a row and have lost 19 out of 21. They aren't knocking on the door of anything. Leigh' s record in SL is absolutely woeful and are on the brink of going pop, Widnes have just lost about 1.2million games in a row and Fev have never been an SL level club. No point pretending these clubs are something they aren't. Not pretending anything, one of those clubs has absolutely every chance of earning promotion against it's top Chsmpionship rivals. That's nothing but absolute and pure fact. Give it time to run and the dedicated clubs will rise to the top. Always. But no, artificial barriers will come crashing down once more.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwis 13 6 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 29 minutes ago, Smudger06 said: And Leigh, Widnes, Halifax, Featherstone & probably Bradford knocking on the door? Yes they are knocking on the door as well. My point was relegation for Catalans and potentially Toulouse & Toronto could be devastating due to the distance involved and negatively impact TV rights & Sponsorship finances available. Toronto has no Local semi pro comp to return to so relegation likely means the death of any form of professional or semi professional form of the sport in Canada. Widnes, Halifax, Featherstone etc are impacted by relegation but only have to travel down the road 300 miles at most making it easy to continue at a lower economy of scale and with enough teams in the UK it wont effect TV rights value for other UK clubs if they are relegated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBone Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 It’s one thing getting into SL, another to stay there - ask HKR and Leigh. Once a team rises to the top of the championship they need extra ‘bouyancy’ (more/better players) to rise above the bottom of SL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Shepherd Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 11 hours ago, kiwis 13 6 said: Being from outside the UK/Europe P & R is a weird thing to have in Professional sports club competitions. Just a point of order. Apart from a few noisy outliers on this forum, the majority of Brits think that an invitation only closed shop is a weird thing to have in a professional sports league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudger06 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 We are talking about TV rights money that doesnt exist. And if it came to fruition in several years of letting teams in on promises and stuff, the money from Canada would be sufficient to give Toronto a nice slice and the rest, nowt, the money from France may give those 2 Clubs enough to play, the rest, again, nowt. Maybe in 20 years they may or may not have extra money from telly so all can benefit.... If a club is committed to play the sport, and can gather the required resources then let em play, shouldn't matter where there home ground is or what they call themselves..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudger06 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, TBone said: It’s one thing getting into SL, another to stay there - ask HKR and Leigh. Once a team rises to the top of the championship they need extra ‘bouyancy’ (more/better players) to rise above the bottom of SL. That's a fact of life though ain't it, let's not have a fair and simple system because some clubs may not do better than others from time to time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwis 13 6 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, David Shepherd said: Just a point of order. Apart from a few noisy outliers on this forum, the majority of Brits think that an invitation only closed shop is a weird thing to have in a professional sports league. point taken. but the reason why i think it is weird is it takes years to build a fan base, sponsorship portfolio, get your ground up to standard, develop junior talent pathways. Plus TV rights and sponsors want to reach certain markets. relegation can jeopardize all that in one season. Smudger obviously French or American TV rights $$$ are hypothetical at this stage but the potential does seem possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEANO Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Man of Kent said: Controversial. I’d have Wakey in but only if they have a new/upgraded ground. Hahahaha sometimes you have to take a step backwards to move forward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoneslessBishop Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 There is no harm in changing the format again in 2021, if there is strong justification for doing it, and the format is easy to understand, which 14 would be. Might need a return to 6 or even 8 team play-off though that might be less popular. As Jouffret suggests, new TV deals would be key, but targeting that now gives the opportunity to develop these possibilities. In terms of player pool, Toulouse are mostly French, and the likes of a Toronto or especially an NYC team in SL could attract NRL players like no other team, so shouldn’t impact wider quality. Just has to be part of a wider plan. Mr Elstone has to be the man who can create and deliver one. Should be with milestones that need to be met before we move to the next phase. If we are serious about really breaking the North American market, end game should be Heritage and Transatlantic Conferences in 2025 after another 4 year contract. We know there are interested parties out there. But they need to have proof of real benefit before we take big steps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluded pom? Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 2 hours ago, kiwis 13 6 said: I can assure you that P & R is alive and well in almost all NZ & Australian semi pro & amateur sports competitions but is found in none of the fully professional competitions. P & R obviously works in English soccer/football as all teams are within 500 miles of each other & they have a fully professional 2nd tier to play in if relegated. Super League is different as it involves Catalan dragons with Toulouse & Toronto knocking on the door. If relegated the 2nd tier of competition is semi professional. The second tier is full time and part time. There would be nothing to stop any relegated team staying full time except their own finances and aspirations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarey71 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 30 minutes ago, scotchy1 said: Then the most likely outcome is the over spend, lose loads of money and go pop. But isn't that a bit of a red herring? Bradford went pop during licencing? Whether there is P&R or not some clubs will overspend to get to the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpmc Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 A 14 team league would be fantastic for the sport if we can get London Scholars,Newcastle,Manchester,Toulouse,Toronto and a couple more North American clubs in there to join Catalans and the Broncos,failing that im not really sure of the point of increasing the league,you might as well just leave it alone to meander along as it does now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Clothesoff Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 The only side knocking at SL’s door at present is Toronto. They have spoken of a five year plan, their ideas for when they’re in Super League and they’ve spent big thus far. I don’t think Toulouse are that close. They’d love to get into Super League but what’s going on with their ground? What sort of academy system do they have? And they don’t have the money of others. To say Widnes, Fev, Halifax etc are knocking on the door is a pipe dream. It would be great if we had a Championship of well run ‘big’ names battling it out for promotion but I don’t think we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Clothesoff Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, jpmc said: A 14 team league would be fantastic for the sport if we can get London Scholars,Newcastle,Manchester,Toulouse,Toronto and a couple more North American clubs in there to join Catalans and the Broncos,failing that im not really sure of the point of increasing the league,you might as well just leave it alone to meander along as it does now Skolars are a million miles from thinking about Super League. It’s nothing short of a pipe dream and they’d need a mega money backer to help them even think about promotion from League One let alone promotion from Super League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarey71 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 ...and the mythical Manchester dead horse doesn't even exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fevtom Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 I hope rugby league is successful in expanding beyond the M62 but we have to think about the player pool. I would love Toronto, London, New York etc to all be developing Super League standard players eventually but the reality is for the forseeable future their teams will be made up of Aussies and lads from Cas, Warrington, Hull etc. If top level professional rugby disappeared in these places you can expect participation to drop too. All this talk of suddenly replacing Huddersfield, Wakefield with New York, Philadelphia etc is ambitious but a little premature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpmc Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said: Skolars are a million miles from thinking about Super League. It’s nothing short of a pipe dream and they’d need a mega money backer to help them even think about promotion from League One let alone promotion from Super League. As are Newcastle but if you finance them properly it wouldnt take long to the build the clubs up,all the infrastructure is in place for them to kick on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Clothesoff Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 13 minutes ago, jpmc said: As are Newcastle but if you finance them properly it wouldnt take long to the build the clubs up,all the infrastructure is in place for them to kick on. Newcastle and Skolars aren’t at all comparable. Newcastle are far ahead of where Skolars are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Picture Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Smudger06 said: We are talking about TV rights money that doesnt exist. And if it came to fruition in several years of letting teams in on promises and stuff, the money from Canada would be sufficient to give Toronto a nice slice and the rest, nowt, the money from France may give those 2 Clubs enough to play, the rest, again, nowt. Maybe in 20 years they may or may not have extra money from telly so all can benefit.... If a club is committed to play the sport, and can gather the required resources then let em play, shouldn't matter where there home ground is or what they call themselves..... A better way would be to put all the TV money into one pot and divide it equally, like the NFL has done for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpmc Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said: Newcastle and Skolars aren’t at all comparable. Newcastle are far ahead of where Skolars are. I think that is nonsense tbh, It would be good if people associated with both clubs would comment on why you think that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Clothesoff Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 10 minutes ago, jpmc said: I think that is nonsense tbh, It would be good if people associated with both clubs would comment on why you think that I follow Skolars and probably watch 4-6 Home games a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonM Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said: I follow Skolars and probably watch 4-6 Home games a year. Me too - and I'm in complete agreement with what you said. Thunder play in a ground with 10k capacity & modern stands, better than several SL grounds. New River is probably better than Trailfinders, but really not up to SL standard. Even if you take out the one-off games (the 4000+ on Magic Weekend for Newcastle, half that for FNL for Skolars), Thunder already have much bigger crowds - can't see Skolars getting 900 odd for a game against Coventry for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleftherios Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 30 minutes ago, jpmc said: I think that is nonsense tbh, It would be good if people associated with both clubs would comment on why you think that Been to a few Thunder games, better team than Skolars, Better ground than Skolars, better crowds than Skolars. Nicely developing as a club, leave them to it though none of this fast tracking rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westside Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 4 hours ago, Smudger06 said: Riddle me this...... Paris, London, Toronto, New York, Montreal, Chicago, Philadelphia & Jacksonville... Why on earth would they make the time and effort to come play in medium sized Northern English Towns? After just a few seasons, guess what, Wigan, Saints & Warrington would find themselves in exactly the same position as Widnes, Halifax, Featherstone & Leigh. I joined TRL 3 years ago, I've only just started contributing, I followed this thread because I knew all this Mega-city League stuff would resurface, as it does time and time again. Jacksonville....crops up all the time, jeeez, if ppl knew anything, you'd be a million times better off with Orlando, many more flights from Manchester etc, more familiar with the British public, brand new soccer specific stadium, could combine a match with a holiday. Well you could buy a Watch NRL app and a Watch Super Mega City League app to replace the live game experience. To be honest though, ya better off just getting into the NFL, all your problems would be solved. It’s pretty simple. Two divisions. One with the new markets, one with the heartland teams. They buy into SL because it is an established product with a fan base and TV deals already, and brands like Leeds, Wigan, St Helens are well known. Metropolitan Toronto Toulouse Paris Catalans London Montreal Philadelphia NYC Heartland Leeds St Helens Wigan Hull x 2 Warrington Huddersfield Bradford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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