swann5 Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 How can St Helens pull out Grace and Knowles from Wales squad when season over , they would not pull playes out of England squads ? Must be a rule there some where stopping this ????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 Is that definitely the case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolford6 Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Like Swann5, I can't think that the two boys don't want to play in the tournament. By the same token, I can't see Saints wanting to cause animosity with its players. If Saints have pulled their players out, maybe it's an insurance issue, maybe it's a political issue, maybe it's a contractual issue. I would have thought that maybe: - young players won't be able to demand a contractual right to play for their country in the way that experienced ones can. - bigger nations perhaps have better insurance policies and will pay clubs a match fee for selected players. - there's a mandate on eligibility for World Cup games that doen't apply to home internationals. Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Coast Tiger Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Because clubs don’t care about the sport beyond them winning and if they can get away with ###### like this they will (and they do). Guyra Super Spuds website Guyra Super Spuds Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluded pom? Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Wolford6 said: young players won't be able to demand a contractual right to play for their country in the way that experienced ones can. It’s not a contractual thing. All players are supposed to be made available for their country if selected and they want to play. I believe it’s an RLIF mandate or similar. Why do you think so many players suddenly need closed season operations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Clothesoff Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Maybe it’s a duty of care issue. Grace and Knowles have played 117 times for Saints over the past two years. Then off the back of the 2017 Super League season, they were both selected in the Wales squad for the World Cup in Australia, playing three games each. They then would have had a shorter or significantly reduced rest and pre-season before the start of the 2018 season. We as a sport can’t just expect players to play game after game, year after year without having any sort of duty of care for our players. They need a rest sometimes and if this is the reason for them not being called up, that’s fine with me. I’d argue for “rest years” or at the very least, periods of sustained rest, within an International calendar to preserve our players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Coast Tiger Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said: Maybe it’s a duty of care issue. Grace and Knowles have played 117 times for Saints over the past two years. Then off the back of the 2017 Super League season, they were both selected in the Wales squad for the World Cup in Australia, playing three games each. They then would have had a shorter or significantly reduced rest and pre-season before the start of the 2018 season. We as a sport can’t just expect players to play game after game, year after year without having any sort of duty of care for our players. They need a rest sometimes and if this is the reason for them not being called up, that’s fine with me. I’d argue for “rest years” or at the very least, periods of sustained rest, within an International calendar to preserve our players. Must only be Welsh players who require this. Guyra Super Spuds website Guyra Super Spuds Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Clothesoff Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 5 minutes ago, East Coast Tiger said: Must only be Welsh players who require this. Would I rather it include those selected by England? Definitely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearNothing Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 It can be really frustrating being a Welsh fan sometimes...just as we get Lloyd White and Gil Dudson back, we've got Kopczack retired from internationals, Kear won't pick Ben Flower, and now the Saints boys not playing....anyone would think that someone, somewhere just doesn't want us to qualify for the WC cru....Cru.....CRUSADERS!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Coast Tiger Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Like I said, clubs only care about themselves. And most fans do too. How about forcing clubs to only allow players to play a maximum number of club games? Nah let’s just ruin international footy, even though it’s the only part of the game anyone’s takes any notice of. Guyra Super Spuds website Guyra Super Spuds Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Clothesoff Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, East Coast Tiger said: Like I said, clubs only care about themselves. And most fans do too. How about forcing clubs to only allow players to play a maximum number of club games? Nah let’s just ruin international footy, even though it’s the only part of the game anyone’s takes any notice of. Who are these “anyone” and what happens as a direct result of them “taking notice” of Rugby League? We saw directly the implications of non-stop, never ending Rugby League and very short periods of rest and pre-season on the Catalans Dragons in the early part of 2018 from having so many players selected for the France World Cup squad. The same French lads are now expected, after a 2017 season that saw them play in the Qualifiers, then go to a World Cup before another full 2018 Super League season and a Cup Final and now expected to play three International games at the back of this year before doing it all again in 2019. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Coast Tiger Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said: Who are these “anyone” and what happens as a direct result of them “taking notice” of Rugby League? We saw directly the implications of non-stop, never ending Rugby League and very short periods of rest and pre-season on the Catalans Dragons in the early part of 2018 from having so many players selected for the France World Cup squad. The same French lads are now expected, after a 2017 season that saw them play in the Qualifiers, then go to a World Cup before another full 2018 Super League season and a Cup Final and now expected to play three International games at the back of this year before doing it all again in 2019. Like I said, make clubs reduce their games. How many more club games and how many fewer internationals do you propose? Maybe Saints need to play Wigan another six times a year and we can dispense with tests altogether. That’ll grow the game. So apparently Catalans couldn’t handle early season games because they were too tired after six weeks off but then miraculously that fatigue disappeared afterward playing 15 games or more? Lol. What a load of utter ####. Guyra Super Spuds website Guyra Super Spuds Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Clothesoff Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 45 minutes ago, East Coast Tiger said: Like I said, make clubs reduce their games. How many more club games and how many fewer internationals do you propose? Maybe Saints need to play Wigan another six times a year and we can dispense with tests altogether. That’ll grow the game. So apparently Catalans couldn’t handle early season games because they were too tired after six weeks off but then miraculously that fatigue disappeared afterward playing 15 games or more? Lol. What a load of utter ####. Maybe we do but this is the structure we have and we need to work with it. Given the likes of Steve McNamara, the bloke who actually coaches the Dragons, has said it means it may have some truth to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Coast Tiger Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 22 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said: Maybe we do but this is the structure we have and we need to work with it. Given the likes of Steve McNamara, the bloke who actually coaches the Dragons, has said it means it may have some truth to it. So you’re sticking to the theory that Catalans played badly early in the season because of fatigue after last year’s World Cup but after playing even MORE games they started playing well and winning? Seems legit. Almost none of the Catalans top 17 even played in the WC. How many Melbourne Storm or Sydney Roosters players do you reckon played in the WC? I’ll bet a lot more than Catalans. Guyra Super Spuds website Guyra Super Spuds Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolford6 Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 2 hours ago, FearNothing said: It can be really frustrating being a Welsh fan sometimes...just as we get Lloyd White and Gil Dudson back, we've got Kopczack retired from internationals, Kear won't pick Ben Flower, and now the Saints boys not playing....anyone would think that someone, somewhere just doesn't want us to qualify for the WC Why won't Kear pick Flower? Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluded pom? Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Is "duty of care" the latest buzz expression? I'm sick of reading it on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Clothesoff Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 1 hour ago, East Coast Tiger said: So you’re sticking to the theory that Catalans played badly early in the season because of fatigue after last year’s World Cup but after playing even MORE games they started playing well and winning? Seems legit. Almost none of the Catalans top 17 even played in the WC. How many Melbourne Storm or Sydney Roosters players do you reckon played in the WC? I’ll bet a lot more than Catalans. No, I’m taking the word of a bloke who’s involved in the game over your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhw Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 3 hours ago, East Coast Tiger said: Like I said, clubs only care about themselves. And most fans do too. How about forcing clubs to only allow players to play a maximum number of club games? Nah let’s just ruin international footy, even though it’s the only part of the game anyone’s takes any notice of. Even if there were no International games at all, clubs should be doing this anyway in coordination with their governing bodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearNothing Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Wolford6 said: Why won't Kear pick Flower? Apparently after he made himself unavailable for a game a couple of years back (don't know the full story)...bl00dy shame, we could do with him up front... cru....Cru.....CRUSADERS!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swann5 Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 4 hours ago, Oliver Clothesoff said: Maybe it’s a duty of care issue. Grace and Knowles have played 117 times for Saints over the past two years. Then off the back of the 2017 Super League season, they were both selected in the Wales squad for the World Cup in Australia, playing three games each. They then would have had a shorter or significantly reduced rest and pre-season before the start of the 2018 season. We as a sport can’t just expect players to play game after game, year after year without having any sort of duty of care for our players. They need a rest sometimes and if this is the reason for them not being called up, that’s fine with me. I’d argue for “rest years” or at the very least, periods of sustained rest, within an International calendar to preserve our players. So Saints are going to pull all England players out of New Zealand tests on same grounds ,I dought it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolford6 Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Kear v Flower Nose Face Spite. Mind you, it's what a Welshman would do anyway. Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolford6 Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 If there's one thing we're good at, it's bearing grudges. Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolford6 Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Yes, Chris Joynt. I still haven't forgotten. Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Clothesoff Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 28 minutes ago, swann5 said: So Saints are going to pull all England players out of New Zealand tests on same grounds ,I dought it No. Because each player’s circumstances is completely different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 2 hours ago, FearNothing said: Apparently after he made himself unavailable for a game a couple of years back (don't know the full story)...bl00dy shame, we could do with him up front... To be fair I like that. Too many players only play for the smaller countries when it is a glamorous game or when there is a World Cup on the horizon. Fair play to Kear sticking by players that stay loyal to the cause and don't pick and choose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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