4 Nov: England v New Zealand KO 2.30pm (BBC TV)

[Rawschach]

That was brilliant.

Exciting game.  Brilliant tries.  Some fantastic defence.

England went up a couple of gears in the second half and the Kiwis went to pieces.

Hodgson, Connor, Lomax, Makinson were all great but just about everyone was.

[OMEGA]

1 minute ago, SilentAssassin said:

First time i have really watched Thompson this series and he is a cracking front rower, all the wraps he has been getting this year seem justified.would be surprised if he isn't in the NRL soon keeps playing like this.

Sts have a couple of very very good young forwards just breaking through, Thompson reminds me of Australia’s McGuire

[deluded pom?]

3 minutes ago, SilentAssassin said:

The first one early on Tomkins was, you can't allow 20stone forwards to clean out halves after the kick has gone even if it is tight.

So if it’s an England forward rather than a Kiwi you would be perfectly happy to see him hold off and not pressure the kicker?

[RSN]

1 minute ago, SilentAssassin said:

The first one early on Tomkins was, you can't allow 20stone forwards to clean out halves after the kick has gone even if it is tight.

The weight of the player is completely irrelevant. It's the force of the tackle and if he has time to pull out. 

The New Zealand players did not have time to pull out, they were aggressive hits but if you watch the footage they quite clearly went to tackle Tomkins before he began kicking the ball. 

Late tackles where the player starts the tackle after the ball has been passed and can see it has been passed (usually by this point the player is relaxed hence more damage to the attacker) should be an instant sin bin. This wasn't the case. 

[gingerjon]

Now that was decent. Even with the Kiwis ahead or with the scores level I was grinning. Proper no-quarter-asked-or-given football with some flashes of poetry amidst the battle. That's all you can ask for.

[Futtocks]

Nicked off Twitter, possibly from one of you lot.

Makinson and Thompson ran a combined 326m today. Yesterday the entire England Union team ran 319m. They can keep their kicks #EngvNz

[SilentAssassin]

Just now, deluded pom? said:

So if it’s an England forward rather than a Kiwi you would be perfectly happy to see him hold off and not pressure the kicker?

I'm not saying that, just that flying in at a half back like a WWE wrestler when he has clearly put boot to ball is not acceptable in my book 

[Dave T]

10 minutes ago, deluded pom? said:

Do you expect Bromwich to put the air brakes on and stop in mid air?

No, get there quicker. It wasn't a surprise that Tomkins was going to kick/pass.

[CiderWire]

Whilst Makinson was phenomenal in attack and defence, our left side attack in genereral was fantastic. However, I think that McGilvary was superb in carrying the ball out over on the right edge, he ran like a man twice his size all day. Great result and a great team effort

[OMEGA]

Shame that England don’t play Australia soon, I genuinely beleive wed see a series win by England. I’ll say again, look at the players who were unavailable for England: Watkins, Hall, Gale, Roby, S Burgess 

[deluded pom?]

Just now, SilentAssassin said:

I'm not saying that, just that flying in at a half back like a WWE wrestler when he has clearly put boot to ball is not acceptable in my book 

Clearly put boot to ball!!!! It was a split second from boot hitting ball to Bromwich hitting Tomkins. He can’t suddenly stop in mid air or fly backwards. 

[mt smart]

Well deserved series win by England. Pretty tough going staying up till three AM for coverage to start here...but the quality of the tests have made it worth it,

I think this England side would take out the new look Aussie Line up, real shame we dont get to see it.

I thought England would be too strong at home for my lot before this series started, and that didnt change after NZ beat the Roos.

England are a very frustrating side to play, they grind well....are patient...and have the class in their backline to hurt you on the edges with rappid shifts.

Would love to see some of these guys play NRL.

 

 

[deluded pom?]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

No, get there quicker. It wasn't a surprise that Tomkins was going to kick.

So you want any player shaping to kick to be allowed to do as he wants?

[JonM]

3 minutes ago, RSN said:

The New Zealand players did not have time to pull out, they were aggressive hits but if you watch the footage they quite clearly went to tackle Tomkins before he began kicking the ball.

That's irrelevant though. The law is there to protect the kicker from injury. Tackle him after the ball has gone and it's a penalty. Same thing if you tackle round the head when the player sidestepped.

[OMEGA]

3 minutes ago, deluded pom? said:

So if it’s an England forward rather than a Kiwi you would be perfectly happy to see him hold off and not pressure the kicker?

I don’t think you can argue that Bromwich is going to make some kind of contact but he follows through as though Tomkins still holds possession of the ball. 

[DavidM]

3 minutes ago, OMEGA said:

Shame that England don’t play Australia soon, I genuinely beleive wed see a series win by England. I’ll say again, look at the players who were unavailable for England: Watkins, Hall, Gale, Roby, S Burgess 

Maybe they’re thinking that . For the first time in decades we’d be massively confident . And Widdop the most important 

[Tex Evans Thigh]

What a game! First half a bit stop start but still a good contest.

2nd half top class, proper test match rugby. What a shame our sport isn’t more popular.

Makinson is world class, can’t believe his selection was in doubt. He won that game for England.

Some great performances by Thompson, Hodgson, burgesses, Whitehead.

lets not forget we were missing probably our best three players.

cant wait for the next England games in 2021

[Oxford]

7 minutes ago, Oxford said:

I thinks it's time to big up Super League production lines too.

 

[Northern Eel]

What excites me most is that we are capable of playing better. Where are those Aussies hiding?

[deluded pom?]

I called one from Graham last week in the first few minutes which went unpunished. I can’t recall any uproar on here and that was much later than Bromwich’s effort.

[Futtocks]

4 minutes ago, OMEGA said:

Shame that England don’t play Australia soon, I genuinely beleive wed see a series win by England. I’ll say again, look at the players who were unavailable for England: Watkins, Hall, Gale, Roby, S Burgess 

I reckon Australia will be making plenty of excuses not to play us 'til their next generation are well bedded-in.

[OMEGA]

England’s last 5 games include 3 wins over NZ, a demolition of France and a very very close 6-0 World Cup Final defeat to Australia, just an ankle tap away from something special.

 

[Denton Rovers RLFC]

2 minutes ago, SilentAssassin said:

The first one early on Tomkins was, you can't allow 20stone forwards to clean out halves after the kick has gone even if it is tight.

It's difficult, you can't presume that the player is going to pass, by the time they have, you often cannot process that information quick enough and then physically be able to pull out from a committed tackle, there's simply not enough time between ball release and your brain being able to make a decision and then turn that into a physical action. Liken it to how crash investigators understand motorvehicle crashes. Reactions to unexpected occurrences take at the very least 0.7 seconds and in certain high stress situations can easily be 1.5s or longer, to then adjust your momentum/committed action is very difficult if not impossible until it's too late. Hence why slowing drivers down so they have more time to react to unexpected events is one of the biggest solutions.

Also  It's the turning the back (to the tackler) of the passing player combined with a committed hit that makes it look bad without it being against the rules, Gareth Ellis had one in 2017 that put him out for a while and was similar, I think Sam Moa was the tackler. 

in the NFL they've decided that roughing the passer when a hit could be half pulled out of isn't is the right call, sometimes you might have a point but then that would be a late hit where it would be obvious to all including players that it's late. Being able to stop your committed tackle halfway through is nigh on impossible, being asked to second guess what will/won't unfold is unfair on the would be tackler. Sometimes a hit a split second later after the ball has gone is just something you have to accept, or you reduce how players completely think in terms of tackling any player at any time. Oh I won't go in in case he passes, sorry but that's billhooks.

I don't think the hits were late and were unfairly punished.

[metallithrax]

Two excellent games so far, shame I probably won't be able to watch next weeks game until Monday or maybe even Tuesday, but I will watch it.

[DavidM]

Good on ya Wayne ‘ you’ve got to enjoy the moment ‘ . Indeed . But we haven’t really been hiding Tommy away !