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Suicide/Mental Issues


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3 hours ago, graveyard johnny said:

are the rates seasonal? do these winter early January dark dull cold days intensify peoples situations or is it the same in summer?

This is Wikipedia but it's interesting all the same.

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8 hours ago, Damien said:

This is Wikipedia but it's interesting all the same.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasonal_effects_on_suicide_rates

"Research on seasonal effects on suicide rates suggests that the prevalence of suicide is greatest during the late spring and early summer months,[1] despite the common belief that suicide rates peak during the cold and dark months of the winter season"

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"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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Of the people I've known who have committed suicide, the ages range from 18 to mid 50's. It's never 'ok' but if someone is in their 50's, you can at least see some sort of logic to the 'can't take anymore' aspect. Not that it makes it less devastating for those affected of course. But someone who is 18? How low must they feel to not want to go on? 

So I think the answer is extremely complicated and one of brain chemicals. Many people can be saved from ending it all and we should all try to help if we can. But I think many are simply unavoidable as the person concerned has 100% made their mind up and genuinely cannot take anymore. Not by way of a cry for help or anything but because they are going to do it as they can't go on. 

All I would say to anyone reading this and feeling like ending it all, is that it will get better. Yes, today might be carp - and tomorrow might be garbage too. And even next week! But it WILL pass.

Trust me, I'm a doctor. (Ok that bit is cobblers) 

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2 hours ago, Bob8 said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasonal_effects_on_suicide_rates

"Research on seasonal effects on suicide rates suggests that the prevalence of suicide is greatest during the late spring and early summer months,[1] despite the common belief that suicide rates peak during the cold and dark months of the winter season"

Thanks, sorry I didn't realise I had forgotten to actually post the link in my post!

To be honest I looked it up thinking there is bound to be a link between winter, short days with less sunlight, SAD, low mood etc and suicide. Then every link I saw, and studies from countries such as Finland, proved otherwise. I found it really surprising.

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40 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Talking saves lives.

There’s people who can listen and there is help out there.

Even just the simplest conversation can break a train of thought for somebody.

Strangely, talking doesn't help me and I don't find it helps. But that's just me. 

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1 minute ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Do you bottle up your problems?

No. I can say exactly what is on my mind and always have done. I have no problem standing out from the crowd or whatever. 

I've tried actual therapists and found it to be not for me. That's just how it is. I appreciate it might help others though. 

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6 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

No. I can say exactly what is on my mind and always have done. I have no problem standing out from the crowd or whatever. 

I've tried actual therapists and found it to be not for me. That's just how it is. I appreciate it might help others though. 

Sounds like you do talking and plenty of it! 😉

When I say ‘talking saves lives’ I don’t necessarily mean booking yourself in with a therapist - just the act of talking and sharing with others.

There’s another aspect to this which is to also showing empathy to others who may benefit from even a minor conversation at a critical time - looking out for others in other words.

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29 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Strangely, talking doesn't help me and I don't find it helps. But that's just me. 

Training your brain to react differently is a big part of the battle. If current methods aren't working for you, try understanding why the brain functions as it does and how to make it more resilient.

There's a wonderful book that's also fun to read called 'The Chimp Paradox'. It's not specifically aimed at Depression, but helps you work on controlling how your brain responds to negative stuff. I'd recommend the audio book, personally. It's narrated by the Psychologist himself, Steve Peters, and he has a nice down to earth Geordie tone which makes it more relatable (than say an American professional narrator). It's not technical, it's very easy to understand with all the analogies he uses.

Some other useful stuff to look at (if you can stomach it) is the subject of ACT (acceptance and commitment therapy). A guy called Stephen C Hayes (who I think has done some TED talks and the like) has published some good workbooks on the subject. 

A big part of the chimp and ACT stuff is also accepting that life can and will be poop, despite the apparent perfect lives of everybody else on TV and Facebook etc . It's all about helping your brain handle the poop so you can enjoy appreciate the good times. Getting off social media a bit more wouldn't do any harm!

The most important thing is to realise there's no quick miracle fix, it's something you have to work at and revisit:

 

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“There is perhaps no better a demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world.”   Carl Sagan

 

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2 hours ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Talking saves lives.

There’s people who can listen and there is help out there.

Even just the simplest conversation can break a train of thought for somebody.

I would caveat this somewhat. Talking to the right people helps, whether professional or personal. From personal experience, talking to the wrong people can make things far worse and perpetuate the cycle. That is not even a slight on them, its just human nature sometimes.

For example if you have a job that you hate and that is making you depressed talking to a work colleague in a similar or the same situation can make things far worse. In reality this just turns into a cycle of moaning where things can get worse and worse and you just keep reinforcing how bad things are until you feel there is no way out. This can be disastrous for both of you.

As can talking to people of the just snap out of it variety. Again no criticism meant there. You know you want to do that but you just cant. That can then make it even worse because you just blame yourself and think its all your fault leading to questions like why am I not happy, I should be?, whats wrong with me? etc.

Just a couple of examples but there are many others. Its a real deep, hole that is hard to get out of sometimes.

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6 minutes ago, Damien said:

I would caveat this somewhat. Talking to the right people helps, whether professional or personal. From personal experience, talking to the wrong people can make things far worse and perpetuate the cycle. That is not even a slight on them, its just human nature sometimes.

For example if you have a job that you hate and that is making you depressed talking to a work colleague in a similar or the same situation can make things far worse. In reality this just turns into a cycle of moaning where things can get worse and worse and you just keep reinforcing how bad things are until you feel there is no way out. This can be disastrous for both of you.

As can talking to people of the just snap out of it variety. Again no criticism meant there. You know you want to do that but you just cant. That can then make it even worse because you just blame yourself and think its all your fault leading to questions like why am I not happy, I should be?, whats wrong with me? etc.

Just a couple of examples but there are many others. Its a real deep, hole that is hard to get out of sometimes.

Writing it down is also a good one, then you do not need a separate listener.

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"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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1 minute ago, Bob8 said:

Writing it down is also a good one, then you do not need a separate listener.

That's the principle of a lot of the workbooks out there. Writing it down is another form of opening up. 

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“There is perhaps no better a demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world.”   Carl Sagan

 

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45 minutes ago, Desert Skipper said:

Training your brain to react differently is a big part of the battle. If current methods aren't working for you, try understanding why the brain functions as it does and how to make it more resilient.

There's a wonderful book that's also fun to read called 'The Chimp Paradox'. It's not specifically aimed at Depression, but helps you work on controlling how your brain responds to negative stuff. I'd recommend the audio book, personally. It's narrated by the Psychologist himself, Steve Peters, and he has a nice down to earth Geordie tone which makes it more relatable (than say an American professional narrator). It's not technical, it's very easy to understand with all the analogies he uses.

Some other useful stuff to look at (if you can stomach it) is the subject of ACT (acceptance and commitment therapy). A guy called Stephen C Hayes (who I think has done some TED talks and the like) has published some good workbooks on the subject. 

A big part of the chimp and ACT stuff is also accepting that life can and will be poop, despite the apparent perfect lives of everybody else on TV and Facebook etc . It's all about helping your brain handle the poop so you can enjoy appreciate the good times. Getting off social media a bit more wouldn't do any harm!

The most important thing is to realise there's no quick miracle fix, it's something you have to work at and revisit:

 

Thanks for that but beyond general moans and groans, I don't currently have any MH problems as such. Appreciate the reply though.

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1 minute ago, Johnoco said:

Thanks for that but beyond general moans and groans, I don't currently have any MH problems as such. Appreciate the reply though.

Sure, no probs.

The Chimp book is also good for helping self-regulate our reactions. Something that I and probably all forum members need to keep working on 🙃

The sooner the season starts the better. Hope you feel better before then ✌️

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“There is perhaps no better a demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world.”   Carl Sagan

 

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31 minutes ago, Damien said:

I would caveat this somewhat. Talking to the right people helps, whether professional or personal. From personal experience, talking to the wrong people can make things far worse and perpetuate the cycle. That is not even a slight on them, its just human nature sometimes.

For example if you have a job that you hate and that is making you depressed talking to a work colleague in a similar or the same situation can make things far worse. In reality this just turns into a cycle of moaning where things can get worse and worse and you just keep reinforcing how bad things are until you feel there is no way out. This can be disastrous for both of you.

As can talking to people of the just snap out of it variety. Again no criticism meant there. You know you want to do that but you just cant. That can then make it even worse because you just blame yourself and think its all your fault leading to questions like why am I not happy, I should be?, whats wrong with me? etc.

Just a couple of examples but there are many others. Its a real deep, hole that is hard to get out of sometimes.

To give some context and to clarify what I am saying.

We have undergone training with all the leading MH charities specifically on the subject of suicide as it is a major issue on the railways (although I am not front end customer facing in the industry).

Research suggests that even the simplest trackside intervention such as a simple initial conversation can break the chain of thought for somebody in crisis.  The testimony for this is from those who survived by not going through with their attempt to take their own life.  This is where talking saves lives.

In your specific example I would agree that if you are lucky enough to work in an organisation in which there are mental health champions then, yes, I would totally agree, that their signposting to professional help will be better than opening up to any old work colleague.  

 

 

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8 minutes ago, henage said:

Going down to the pub and talking Bollo--s with a few mates needs to be done ever couple of weeks . 

My two best mates and I now live miles apart and life gets in the way of that.

So, for the past *far too many* years, we've had a letting off steam / talking nonsense little Facebook Messenger group.

It has been remarkably therapeutic many, many times even if, quite often, we're not really talking about the issues but performatively overreacting to Aber Town's latest performance.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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I have joined a few  mates from our  Rugby days on WhatsApp . Some great content . Need to delete chats quite often . Got some great projects in the pipeline . World cup in France is one . Gone from fly in watch game few beers home . To lets rent an house for a couple of weeks etc etc . Hell yes 

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10 hours ago, Bob8 said:

Writing it down is also a good one, then you do not need a separate listener.

Couldn't agree more.  Journaling certainly has helped me, I'm not as prolific as others, sometimes going a couple of months between entries, but even that is instructive in and of itself.

One strategy I was shown, and still do, is to have a gratitude jar.  I keep a pen and a stack of post it notes by the side of this jar and every morning I write down something to be grateful for, fold it up and pop it in the jar.  Then when the old and darker times begin to make a return, simply pulling out a few random gratitudes is often enough to arrest the slide.  My own handwriting ties it to a moment.

Writing in itself helps to set things in order in our minds, there's an inescapable something which happens when the pen moves across the page, perhaps some Pratchett-esque magic that creates power in our minds.  Or the threat of an angry orang-utan librarian which gains perspective, I don't know.

There's an often used stat which says women are twice as likely to attempt suicide, whereas men are twice as likely to accomplish it.  Whichever healthy route men find to release the emotions and gain a differing perspective on their situation, all the better; the cold logic of irrationality is as tempting as it is repulsive, a comfort in its finality.

I'm glad that 'I need help' is becoming a more acceptable thing for men to say.  Thanks all for chipping in to this conversation!

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  • 2 months later...

Driving to Blackburn 7am this morning and a young lad in just his boxers looking to jump from a bridge. I don't know what happened but if he survived well done to those that rang the police (as I did but wasn't the first) and the 3 cars that immediately pulled up onto the hard shoulder to help. ❤️❤️❤️

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Like poor jokes? Thejoketeller@mullymessiah

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