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Johnoco

Suicide/Mental Issues

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On 12/2/2018 at 8:51 AM, JohnM said:

Turns out it seems that once someone has made up their mind to do this, they can become calmer, happier etc. as they see an end to their problems. Don't know if research bears this out but to me it implies early intervention, which may be both unwelcome and difficult.

 

Interesting that you say this as I remember watching Gary Speed’s final appearance on Football Focus live. I think you may be right.

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With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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3 minutes ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

 

Here's me defending a Tory minister driven NHS plan...

The Plan specifically commits to all A&Es meeting the Core 24 standard, from 12% now to 70% in 2023/4 and to 100% after.

This is a huge commitment, it means 25 mental health staff available including 2 consultant grade doctors, 13 full RMN grade mental health nurses and expected to be made up to 25 with junior doctors and other dedicated nursing staff.  As it stands, most Tier 1 A&E hospitals have NO mental health doctors or nurses on staff.

The money is a bit of a red-herring as emergency mental health is nearly entirely staff based costs as there's very little equipment and lots of cheap generic but very effective drugs available.

Mental health in the NHS has had eight years of disgraceful kickings, as my rants in the NHS thread and elsewhere have shown, but this plan has specific targets and targets that actually mean something.

I was discussing this today as I know it's a major issue for GPs as there's often nowhere for patients to go but this gives them some hope that something will happen.

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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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Whenever I read or listen to the problems of others I'm reminded that my issues are small. My life is small and simple; I have a job, a house, a family* and they're all ok. Just ok. I have one good friend, whom I think about too much, and I constantly have to remind myself she has her own life. I'm lonely, I've no partner or love life. I don't understand myself. I don't value myself. I don't understand what benefits there are to thinking the way I do. I'm supposed to be my own friend yet I can't stand myself.

 

*(not a family I've started, parents, sibling, pet)

Edited by hindle xiii
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1 hour ago, hindle xiii said:

Whenever I read or listen to the problems of others I'm reminded that my issues are small. My life is small and simple; I have a job, a house, a family* and they're all ok. Just ok. I have one good friend, whom I think about too much, and I constantly have to remind myself she has her own life. I'm lonely, I've no partner or love life. I don't understand myself. I don't value myself. I don't understand what benefits there are to thinking the way I do. I'm supposed to be my own friend yet I can't stand myself.

 

*(not a family I've started, parents, sibling, pet)

Loneliness is crippling and I found it tends to double down, so it leads to anxiety, which reduces chance of going out, which makes you more long.

I can go days without talking to anybody, outside of work that is.  As I work shifts I often work alone and also can have 5 days off between shifts.  I think I am now fairly institutionalised, so I find it 'normal' and the idea of having someone stay around is scary!  

 


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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10 hours ago, hindle xiii said:

Whenever I read or listen to the problems of others I'm reminded that my issues are small. My life is small and simple; I have a job, a house, a family* and they're all ok. Just ok. I have one good friend, whom I think about too much, and I constantly have to remind myself she has her own life. I'm lonely, I've no partner or love life. I don't understand myself. I don't value myself. I don't understand what benefits there are to thinking the way I do. I'm supposed to be my own friend yet I can't stand myself.

 

*(not a family I've started, parents, sibling, pet)

Small consolations but hindle xiii is one of the names I look out for on the board so when I see you've made a comment I tend to head straight over and see what you've said. A little glimmer of online connection.

I doubt there's any immediate cure for loneliness. But in terms of not understanding what benefits there are to thinking your way and not being able to stand yourself. Well, I've been there. I still go there far too often. I will say this: whilst there are plenty of people who've got their stuff together, there are plenty of people who really haven't. And they don't necessarily look like people who are struggling in any way.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Small consolations but hindle xiii is one of the names I look out for on the board so when I see you've made a comment I tend to head straight over and see what you've said. A little glimmer of online connection.

I doubt there's any immediate cure for loneliness. But in terms of not understanding what benefits there are to thinking your way and not being able to stand yourself. Well, I've been there. I still go there far too often. I will say this: whilst there are plenty of people who've got their stuff together, there are plenty of people who really haven't. And they don't necessarily look like people who are struggling in any way.

For me, that's one of the massive benefits of amateur level rugby (both codes), even more so than professional rugby, in that it's enormously easy to be with largely like-minded folk having a bit of fun but without the need to actually join in with any socialisation.

A distant friend of mine retired early a couple of years ago and suddenly found himself lonely, he took up walking rugby at his local union club and it has done wonders for his outlook as it's an extra "out" for him.

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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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1 hour ago, ckn said:

For me, that's one of the massive benefits of amateur level rugby (both codes), even more so than professional rugby, in that it's enormously easy to be with largely like-minded folk having a bit of fun but without the need to actually join in with any socialisation.

A distant friend of mine retired early a couple of years ago and suddenly found himself lonely, he took up walking rugby at his local union club and it has done wonders for his outlook as it's an extra "out" for him.

I am going to Hastings Runners this week for pretty much that exact reason.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Whilst driving home I came up with a bit of a simile or metaphor to explain:

I liken it to a deeply religious person, who spent their whole life a certain way, then finding atheism. It'd be confusing, it'd be worrying to realise that not just what they thought was wrong but how they thought was wrong. A scrambled brain full of doubt left to figure out what now without any direction.

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10 minutes ago, hindle xiii said:

Whilst driving home I came up with a bit of a simile or metaphor to explain:

I liken it to a deeply religious person, who spent their whole life a certain way, then finding atheism. It'd be confusing, it'd be worrying to realise that not just what they thought was wrong but how they thought was wrong. A scrambled brain full of doubt left to figure out what now without any direction.

What if one could chisel away at their beliefs, not by changing one belief for another, but by continuously questioning each belief.

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17 minutes ago, hindle xiii said:

Whilst driving home I came up with a bit of a simile or metaphor to explain:

I liken it to a deeply religious person, who spent their whole life a certain way, then finding atheism. It'd be confusing, it'd be worrying to realise that not just what they thought was wrong but how they thought was wrong. A scrambled brain full of doubt left to figure out what now without any direction.

This religious person shocked to discover atheism might be confused but they might also be able to think about things as someone outside looking at them. Who they are has not really changed, just some of the context around it. What they thought they were doing for god or salvation, maybe they can now do and enjoy for other reasons. The certainties will be gone and perhaps there won't ever be any new certainties but they can look back fondly on that previous time for the positives it had whilst also being aware that things have changed so they can't live in that time again. But they are, for better or worse, still the same person. Still the same genes, still the same memories, still the same deep and abiding pleasure of seeing London beat Bradford 15-14 at Griffin Park (or whatever it was).


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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listen to the song "do your best and don't worry" from the album "southpaw grammar " by Morrissey - no seriously , listen to it.

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the grass may be greener on the other side of the fence but the crows are just as black

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39 minutes ago, hindle xiii said:

Whilst driving home I came up with a bit of a simile or metaphor to explain:

I liken it to a deeply religious person, who spent their whole life a certain way, then finding atheism. It'd be confusing, it'd be worrying to realise that not just what they thought was wrong but how they thought was wrong. A scrambled brain full of doubt left to figure out what now without any direction.

Yes.

I might be very painful, but good. Even a spiritual development to use your analogy.

Old stories always seemed to treat betrayal and worse than muder. I always thought that a bit melodramatic, but I think I understand it more now.


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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As part of Time to Talk Day (https://www.time-to-change.org.uk/get-involved/time-talk-day) I led a mental health discussion at work with my team of 8. We did a quiz about mental health (which prompted a lot of conversation) and looked at common symptoms of various mental health issues. We have a follow up next week looking at parity of physical and mental health, followed by how to help (split for managers and non-managers) and how to be helped. The discussion was nowhere near as painful or awkward as I expected! Happy to send my slides over if anyone is interested in doing similar. I'm now speaking to various managers to see if we can roll it out to the 70 or so people in my part of the business! 

In a few weeks too, State of Mind are delivering a session to one of the universities I coach. It does feel like progress is being made with regards to speaking about these things. 

 

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how kind of amigo (payday ) loans to lend my friends son £1000 a couple of days after him been discharged from a psychiatric unit, when his family rang up to explain they said there was "nothing we can do " what lovely people they must be.

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the grass may be greener on the other side of the fence but the crows are just as black

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Just now, graveyard johnny said:

how kind of amigo (payday ) loans to lend my friends son £1000 a couple of days after him been discharged from a psychiatric unit, when his family rang up to explain they said there was "nothing we can do " what lovely people they must be.

Utter #### those companies. 

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2 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said:

how kind of amigo (payday ) loans to lend my friends son £1000 a couple of days after him been discharged from a psychiatric unit, when his family rang up to explain they said there was "nothing we can do " what lovely people they must be.

They should follow that up. There is a lot of focus on vulnerable people and finance at the moment. That really should be sorted.

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4 minutes ago, Dave T said:

They should follow that up. There is a lot of focus on vulnerable people and finance at the moment. That really should be sorted.

it seems as simple as - if you are deemed ok to be discharged you are ok for a loan, scandalous 


the grass may be greener on the other side of the fence but the crows are just as black

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There certainly are things they can do, like passing it up the chain and writing it off as mistaken; what they really meant to say is that there’s nothing they’re willing to do.  Clucking fronts.

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1 hour ago, graveyard johnny said:

how kind of amigo (payday ) loans to lend my friends son £1000 a couple of days after him been discharged from a psychiatric unit, when his family rang up to explain they said there was "nothing we can do " what lovely people they must be.

 

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

They should follow that up. There is a lot of focus on vulnerable people and finance at the moment. That really should be sorted.

That doesn't sound right. Under FCA regulations, lenders have to check that the person they're lending to meets their affordability criteria and can afford to meet the payments, and I don't see how someone passes that test if they've just been sectioned and therefore presumably have no income. Worth querying. 

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1 hour ago, Saint 1 said:

 

That doesn't sound right. Under FCA regulations, lenders have to check that the person they're lending to meets their affordability criteria and can afford to meet the payments, and I don't see how someone passes that test if they've just been sectioned and therefore presumably have no income. Worth querying. 

Take it to the banking ombudsman 

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"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin

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https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/mar/09/our-goal-is-to-halve-the-male-suicide-rate-why-no-frills-therapy-works-for-men

Great article on an initiative started by ex rugby league player Luke Ambler.

Raises issues that certainly ring true to me (and maybe others on here too) about the way current provision for helping men doesn’t seem to work.

Worth a read.

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Great article.

Andy's Man Club is a real life saver. I've seen men walk through the door in a pit of misery and despair, and by the end we've gone through tears and had a laugh and the smiles on faces at the end are a joy to behold. I've seen men who, 6 months on, are completely different people - smiling, joking, full of life. It is amazing what can happen at those groups.

I've been there myself. I had a break down. I did the counselling, went to support groups, and 4 months later I was considering how easy it would be to just step in front of a train. Or a lorry. Or a bus. It got to the stage that I was crossing the road if I saw a lorry half a mile away, just so I wouldn't be tempted.

I remember my first session at AMC after that point. I remember talking about all of these feelings. I remember sitting there, tears streaming down my face, as I told complete strangers about all these thoughts and feelings I had. One guy said to me "I'm glad you're here mate". Those men, total strangers, now good friends, got me through those incredibly dark times. They talked me through it, nodding along because many had been there themselves. I got through it. When life threw a curveball at me a couple of months later, they got me through that as well.

That was 6 months ago. And while the memories of those times are incredibly vivid, that is all they are. AMC saved my life, I am convinced of that. But it's not been a one way street. I know for a fact that some of the stuff I have shared in that group has helped other people with what they are going through. That is the wonder of the group.

There are no "top trumps". No-one's problems are bigger or worse than anyone else's. Everyone's feelings are valid and accepted. You don't even have to talk, not if you don't want to. But it's strange, when the ball gets to you, how easy it is.

It's OK to talk. It's OK not to be OK. 

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