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Johnoco

Suicide/Mental Issues

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3 minutes ago, Mister Ting said:

I agree that all of us who have had or have problems could be helpful if and when it is needed. Someone might be open to sharing issues, others might be reluctant. Unfortunately, there isn't a one size fits all. The issues one can face might make them less inclined to seek help.

This is where I think early identification of issues is important and that’s why I believe we all have a role as a society.

I wouldn’t like to see a re-active approach only to mental health where undiagnosed issues and problems are just left to the health professionals at the final stage maybe after somebody has endured quite a lot of untreated emotional pain and suffering or it becomes a multi-faceted problem linked to abuse of substances including alcohol.  
 

We need to normalise talking about mental health and taking positive preventative steps where possible.  Of course trained professionals will always be part of the equation and may in some cases be the best way to signpost people or even safeguard the very vulnerable who need their help.

 

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Things have been alright recently. I'll only ever speak for myself on this thread.

This week I've had a bad head cold and while I haven't been feeling sorry for myself about it I realised the symptoms including being unable to sleep have been front and centre occupying my mind, pushing aside my usual thought patterns.

An idle mind is the devil's workshop.

Edited by hindle xiii
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On 10/09/2019 at 08:09, Mumby Magic said:

I won't go into too much detail at this point but I suffer from grief related depression. In my first job back, I opened up about what happened and some nasty people at work tried to use that against me. Like applying for a team leader role so I didn't get it etc. So I have only told a few people at my current place of work as confidents. My persona at work is a pretty daft one, to keep myself going as it were. The worst part of this though and the naivety and ignorance of people is if I opened up and told people what happen they'd say "You're joking aren't you?" Grrr

13 days after, I had a melt down. We moved house to try to get our eldest into a decent school. I've never been a drinker as such but realised the last 2/3 years I've been drinking too much with certain habits I condoned I was starting to do. On the day of our move I was moving the heavy stuff, mattresses etc  then having the can. Didn't eat. By 6pm I felt nished. My wife was gutted initially. Along with my grief related depression there were another 3 to 4 other factors that was contributing to it and not addicted to it (as a drink counsellor pointed out) I was using it to stifle my depression. As my wife is in the same depression situation as me she was supportive. I realised I hadn't seen a counsellor for 9 years! Any how I haven't drunk everyday since the 23rd and probably had at least 10 dry days since then, many more to come. I want to enjoy a pint, not use it to stifle my depression.

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Like poor jokes? Thejoketeller@mullymessiah

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2 hours ago, hindle xiii said:

Things have been alright recently. I'll only ever speak for myself on this thread.

This week I've had a bad head cold and while I haven't been feeling sorry for myself about it I realised the symptoms including being unable to sleep have been front and centre occupying my mind, pushing aside my usual thought patterns.

An idle mind is the devil's workshop.

I think mental and physical wellness often go hand in hand. The symptoms normally stop you doing some of the preventative stuff too, so like for me, if I can't meditate or exercise then things are already looking worse. Sleep has such a big impact on mental health though.

Speaking of which, I bought a pair of these glasses about a month ago - https://www.amazon.com/Sleep-Savior-Ultra-Disruptive-Melatonin/dp/B07CZ499J5. Blue light (even just the amount from a bed lamp) is enough to mess up your melatonin production and shift your body clock back by about 90 minutes. Since wearing these in the evenings, I'm sleeping about an hour more each night. Unsurprisingly, this is the least tired I have ever felt in Winter! 

3 minutes ago, Mumby Magic said:

13 days after, I had a melt down. We moved house to try to get our eldest into a decent school. I've never been a drinker as such but realised the last 2/3 years I've been drinking too much with certain habits I condoned I was starting to do. On the day of our move I was moving the heavy stuff, mattresses etc  then having the can. Didn't eat. By 6pm I felt nished. My wife was gutted initially. Along with my grief related depression there were another 3 to 4 other factors that was contributing to it and not addicted to it (as a drink counsellor pointed out) I was using it to stifle my depression. As my wife is in the same depression situation as me she was supportive. I realised I hadn't seen a counsellor for 9 years! Any how I haven't drunk everyday since the 23rd and probably had at least 10 dry days since then, many more to come. I want to enjoy a pint, not use it to stifle my depression.

It sounds like you have been to the GP's about your drinking, but have you been about your depression? It's good to hear about the dry days though! I think sometimes just reduced frequency is a better aim than complete sobriety, it certainly feels more attainable. 

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2 minutes ago, Saint 1 said:

 

It sounds like you have been to the GP's about your drinking, but have you been about your depression? It's good to hear about the dry days though! I think sometimes just reduced frequency is a better aim than complete sobriety, it certainly feels more attainable. 

The problem has been the depression, not necessarily the drinking. Rather than dealing with it I was surpressing it,thinking "I'm OK". I saw a doctor about everything and am waiting for a councillors appointment. Also I tend to drink on an evening, never before work or anything like that.I don't yearn a drink,I yearn for some mental relief.

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Like poor jokes? Thejoketeller@mullymessiah

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Is this supposed to be a bad time of year for mental health issues? Not that it has a holiday or something, just after Xmas and all that? 

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7 hours ago, Johnoco said:

Is this supposed to be a bad time of year for mental health issues? Not that it has a holiday or something, just after Xmas and all that? 

It's said that it is a difficult time of year, particularly for relationships which are a bit rocky, and also for people who have a dearth of close relationships. There are other factors of course.

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On 26/01/2020 at 13:42, Johnoco said:

Is this supposed to be a bad time of year for mental health issues? Not that it has a holiday or something, just after Xmas and all that? 

I did read something about how Blue Monday is actually just a PR stunt invented by a travel company in 2005. With that said, I expect the combination of such short days, the weather and potential financial stress after Christmas could all be aggravating factors. 

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On 26/01/2020 at 13:42, Johnoco said:

Is this supposed to be a bad time of year for mental health issues? Not that it has a holiday or something, just after Xmas and all that? 

It is. Blue Monday isn't real but the come down after Christmas, pressures of darkness and the fact that a lot of decisions are made around now are key factors.

That and, to be blunt, people around are physically ill too. And there are obvious connections between physical and mental health.


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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In light of the Caroline Flack case.....

I’ve read a lot of people blaming the media for hounding her to death. I’ve no idea what exactly went on but did hear there was some sort of court case upcoming for her about hitting her fella or something. So I aren’t saying that wasn’t the case, it could be true.

But as she and others have made careers from these reality shows have also committed suicide ( don’t know them, just read 2 others involved in Love Island did too) is it in fact time these shows were given the boot? 
All they do is promote the idea that men have to be tatted up six packers and girls look a certain way with those ridiculous lips.

The problem is, despite her death, thousands of young people (and some not so young) will still be trying desperately to get on shows like it, or become presenters. Is it the medias fault? Or the people wanting fame? Chicken and Egg?
 

How can TV constantly promote these shows that must give people image/esteem  problems then at the same time put a voice over on the end of shows advising of a phone number if you have issues about something? 

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4 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

In light of the Caroline Flack case.....

I’ve read a lot of people blaming the media for hounding her to death. I’ve no idea what exactly went on but did hear there was some sort of court case upcoming for her about hitting her fella or something. So I aren’t saying that wasn’t the case, it could be true.

But as she and others have made careers from these reality shows have also committed suicide ( don’t know them, just read 2 others involved in Love Island did too) is it in fact time these shows were given the boot? 
All they do is promote the idea that men have to be tatted up six packers and girls look a certain way with those ridiculous lips.

The problem is, despite her death, thousands of young people (and some not so young) will still be trying desperately to get on shows like it, or become presenters. Is it the medias fault? Or the people wanting fame? Chicken and Egg?
 

How can TV constantly promote these shows that must give people image/esteem  problems then at the same time put a voice over on the end of shows advising of a phone number if you have issues about something? 

I think there's a lot in what you're saying.

Flack's suicide is horrible and I've no doubt that her (many, it seems) genuine friends are shocked and heartbroken by it. She does seem to have been a person troubled by genuine demons and her death by suicide is tragic and not something you would wish on anyone.

But she was facing a pretty serious assault charge and had been the face of some truly vile reality TV whose entire success is based on judging and jeering others, often based on crude edits or situations set up by producers.

I said last night that nastiness is in our cultural mainstream. Maybe it has been for a while, it's certainly been present in printed and broadcast media - long before social media - for as long as I can remember. It may be worse now because it can become more personal and it's hard to escape.

I don't have the answers. But I do think that a lot of the same people who have been quick to find blame for Flack's death will also be sharing the next Marina Hyde "Lost in Showbiz" article without noticing that she does much the same, only with the bigger and smarter words than most people manage.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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4 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I think there's a lot in what you're saying.

Flack's suicide is horrible and I've no doubt that her (many, it seems) genuine friends are shocked and heartbroken by it. She does seem to have been a person troubled by genuine demons and her death by suicide is tragic and not something you would wish on anyone.

But she was facing a pretty serious assault charge and had been the face of some truly vile reality TV whose entire success is based on judging and jeering others, often based on crude edits or situations set up by producers.

I said last night that nastiness is in our cultural mainstream. Maybe it has been for a while, it's certainly been present in printed and broadcast media - long before social media - for as long as I can remember. It may be worse now because it can become more personal and it's hard to escape.

I don't have the answers. But I do think that a lot of the same people who have been quick to find blame for Flack's death will also be sharing the next Marina Hyde "Lost in Showbiz" article without noticing that she does much the same, only with the bigger and smarter words than most people manage.

Yes, based on nothing more than a quick scan of social media, I’ve seen people who are blaming the media. They have then been pulled up about it by others saying ‘hang on, you were saying such and such about her the other day’.

I think it is worse today, if only by virtue of the ease with which you can insult someone today.

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It’s the piling in by people who’ve never heard of someone beyond what the media says that’s the worst reflection of society.

The sheer hatred pushed towards politicians, celebs and even normal folk who’ve made a mistake is unbelievable. No wonder it drives people to suicide. 

I stuck my toe outside the NHS world on Twitter last week with a harmless post about a radio host and it was pounced on almost immediately with “you’re just as bad as that filth, why not go hang yourself!” type comments. And some of the posts were by people displaying their real name and picture, not the anonymous ones always stereotyped. It didn’t bother me, I just blocked them straight off without giving them the chubby of me replying, but I could see how it’d get to people who have to put up with it daily.

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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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My sister is currently on a crusade about twitter bullying, despite her being one of the nastiest people I know about certain things. 

Last night she ranted about Irvine Welsh telling Piers Morgan to 'eff off' for being a hypocrite by posting a nice message about Flack. 

It was completely missed on her that Morgan is a huge part of the issue, and right now is embarking on a bullying campaign against another young famous woman. Welsh was entirely right to tell Morgan to do one. 

If you are sticking up for Morgan in a nastiness debate, I can't help but feel you are on the wrong side. 

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I am finding the Flack thing fascinating. Clearly tragic that she tok her own life, but it is now quickly accepted that social media and media bullying killed her. No questions, you just read it, ironically on social media who is attacking itself! 

This girl clearly had her demons, based on the charges that she was facing, these things are always more complicated than a baying mob can handle. 

Her violence against her ex partner does appear to be being airbrushed out of history. 

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24 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I am finding the Flack thing fascinating. Clearly tragic that she tok her own life, but it is now quickly accepted that social media and media bullying killed her. No questions, you just read it, ironically on social media who is attacking itself! 

This girl clearly had her demons, based on the charges that she was facing, these things are always more complicated than a baying mob can handle. 

Her violence against her ex partner does appear to be being airbrushed out of history. 

The front page of The Sun is not social media. 

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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2 hours ago, Johnoco said:

In light of the Caroline Flack case.....

I’ve read a lot of people blaming the media for hounding her to death. I’ve no idea what exactly went on but did hear there was some sort of court case upcoming for her about hitting her fella or something. So I aren’t saying that wasn’t the case, it could be true.

But as she and others have made careers from these reality shows have also committed suicide ( don’t know them, just read 2 others involved in Love Island did too) is it in fact time these shows were given the boot? 
All they do is promote the idea that men have to be tatted up six packers and girls look a certain way with those ridiculous lips.

The problem is, despite her death, thousands of young people (and some not so young) will still be trying desperately to get on shows like it, or become presenters. Is it the medias fault? Or the people wanting fame? Chicken and Egg?
 

How can TV constantly promote these shows that must give people image/esteem  problems then at the same time put a voice over on the end of shows advising of a phone number if you have issues about something? 

I do find the canonisation annoying.

It is completely right to view this with compassion. But, the thing is that abusive people in domestic relationships are likely be troubled themselves is clear. That does not make these things OK. She was troubled certainly, and it seems she could not face the consequences of her own actions.

The published media have decided it is everyone else's fault inevitably.

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"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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2 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

I do find the canonisation annoying.

It is completely right to view this with compassion. But, the thing is that abusive people in domestic relationships are likely be troubled themselves is clear. That does not make these things OK. She was troubled certainly, and it seems she could not face the consequences of her own actions.

The published media have decided it is everyone else's fault inevitably.

The thing for me is the polarisation. If one side is wrong, e.g. if Flack was guilty of what was said about her, then anyone who opposes her is right and justified in their vilification of the guilty, and vice versa. There's no concept of either rationality or civility.

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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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Just now, ckn said:

The thing for me is the polarisation. If one side is wrong, e.g. if Flack was guilty of what was said about her, then anyone who opposes her is right and justified in their vilification of the guilty, and vice versa. There's no concept of either rationality or civility.

A lot of people seem to want to rush to make it a gendered thing and, for some, I think it is. Certainly, a bloke with an active DV case would not be thought of so fondly by so many.

But, because things aren't simple, look at the veneration that Kobe Bryant got on his death. Then google about the allegations made against him and how they went away.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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1 hour ago, Dave T said:

My sister is currently on a crusade about twitter bullying, despite her being one of the nastiest people I know about certain things. 

Last night she ranted about Irvine Welsh telling Piers Morgan to 'eff off' for being a hypocrite by posting a nice message about Flack. 

It was completely missed on her that Morgan is a huge part of the issue, and right now is embarking on a bullying campaign against another young famous woman. Welsh was entirely right to tell Morgan to do one. 

If you are sticking up for Morgan in a nastiness debate, I can't help but feel you are on the wrong side. 

 I don’t follow either of those guys, as I dislike both. However, people just saying ‘eff off’ (and the rest) does nothing to reduce the toxic atmosphere of Twitter, in fact all it does is encourage his followers to behave similarly with people they disagree with. You’re absolutely right though, PM is also part of the problem.

 I now look at Twitter for 5 minutes to find out what I need to know about certain bands or radio shows then I’m out. It’s horrible.

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8 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

I do find the canonisation annoying.

It is completely right to view this with compassion. But, the thing is that abusive people in domestic relationships are likely be troubled themselves is clear. That does not make these things OK. She was troubled certainly, and it seems she could not face the consequences of her own actions.

The published media have decided it is everyone else's fault inevitably.

Agree with this. I feel sorry for her and that it came to this but she wasn’t a saint by any measure. 

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1 minute ago, Johnoco said:

 I don’t follow either of those guys, as I dislike both. However, people just saying ‘eff off’ (and the rest) does nothing to reduce the toxic atmosphere of Twitter, in fact all it does is encourage his followers to behave similarly with people they disagree with. You’re absolutely right though, PM is also part of the problem.

 I now look at Twitter for 5 minutes to find out what I need to know about certain bands or radio shows then I’m out. It’s horrible.

I overwhelmingly post about NHS stuff and follow/am followed by mainly NHS folk. It's a far nicer environment, it's just when I stick my toe into the deep waters of news/celeb stuff that I see the truly vile nature of the beast.


“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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3 hours ago, Johnoco said:

How can TV constantly promote these shows that must give people image/esteem  problems then at the same time put a voice over on the end of shows advising of a phone number if you have issues about something? 

I can only assume that they do this because there is an audience. There is a warped fascination amongst a significant enough percentage of the British population to ensure that shows that delve deep into the most private and intimate parts of peoples’ lives are box office, prime time telly.

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47 minutes ago, Northern Eel said:

I can only assume that they do this because there is an audience. There is a warped fascination amongst a significant enough percentage of the British population to ensure that shows that delve deep into the most private and intimate parts of peoples’ lives are box office, prime time telly.

You’re right unfortunately. 

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