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2021 World Cup Format


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4 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

The 2017 World Cup format is one we should have stuck with. The 2021 format makes the group games unattractive and fairly pointless, you can guarantee the group winners 3 years out. 

What about the teams who will finish second? Does your crystal ball have those as well?

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21 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

The 2017 World Cup format is one we should have stuck with. The 2021 format makes the group games unattractive and fairly pointless, you can guarantee the group winners 3 years out. 

There is always an element of predictability to the first round group stage, even at the FIFA World Cup.

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Whether you have a super-group or a more traditional format, it doesn't take a genius to predict the outcome. But if you extrapolate it, you can predict the final from here. It will involve two of Australia, New Zealand and England. That's predictability. So, to look at it that way, why are we hosting a World Cup, when we could just host a tri-nations some might say?

That's not how I see it. The World Cup is about more than just the outcome. It's about the route and developing stories.

It's about the fact that we can host a match like USA vs Cook Islands on a Wednesday night in Bristol and it being a fantastic occasion. 

Whilst I can see both sides of the argument, a competition lacks integrity where one side can qualify from the group stages without winning a match, yet another side can win two out of three and fail to qualify. And if we want to be a serious tournament, a worldwide tournament, we want to meet the targets we've set and grow as a sport, integrity of the competition is more important than whether we get a few more blowouts.

There will be some blowouts in 2021, no question. Australia may end up facing Jamaica and posting 100 points past them.

Maybe it's naïve, but these groups may see games like England vs Fiji, Tonga vs Samoa, New Zealand vs Lebanon. I don't think games like this will produce blowouts. And I'd rather see these kind of matches, involving teams we don't usually face rather than England vs New Zealand in a super-group - which would feel a bit artificial.

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3 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

But the question is, what does introducing this predictability gain us.

The format of the FIFA world cup isnt the default. We have had to make a conscious effort to introduce this and for me, for the reasons given, i can't see that change is justified. I can't see that this change will see a better world cup, with more bigger, better, closer matches.

I think a lot of people crave equality in the system rather than weighting for more entertaining games. I won't pretend to know which group has the most support, but it is something that many people want.

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22 hours ago, deluded pom? said:

What about the teams who will finish second? Does your crystal ball have those as well?

Yes. Samoa, Papua New Guinea and Fiji from pot 2 will all qualify for the quarter finals along with the 4 pot 1 Nations. The only doubt from pot 2 is Lebanon. 

Take a look at some of the 2017 results. Fiji 72-6 Wales. Fiji 58-12 USA. PNG 50-6 Wales. NZ 74 -6 Scotland. Tonga 50-4 Scotland.

The gap between the pot 2 and pot 3 countries is massive, never mind pot 1 and pot 3 countries.

Pot 1 v pot 3 games could well have 100+ winning margins. The 2021 format will throw up 8 of these games, when we really should be trying to keep the number to an absolute minimum.

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On 11/12/2018 at 8:46 PM, Evil Homer said:

The only issue for 2021 is that they are giving too many direct places to Europe, it would've been better to have only three direct European qualifiers and the fourth team in the repechage with Cook Islands, SA and the American runner-up.

That would mean 15 teams qualify

Check out upcoming international fixtures and highlights of past matches at http://rlfixtures.weebly.com

 

St Albans Centurions International Liaison Officer and former Medway Dragons Wheelchair RL player.

Leeds Rhinos, St Albans Centurions y Griffons Madrid fan. Also follow (to a lesser extent) Catalans Dragons, London Broncos, South Sydney Rabbitohs, Jacksonville Axemen, Vrchlabi Mad Squirrels, København Black Swans, Red Star Belgrade and North Hertfordshire Crusaders.

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On 11/12/2018 at 8:49 PM, paulwalker71 said:

OK guys, I think we've got used to 'fixed' draws with all the top teams in one group

If I understand this correctly, this is going to be a traditional draw. One team from each pot in each of four groups. So England, Australia, NZ and Tonga will be in separate groups, each with a team from Pot 2, Pot 3 and Pot 4

 

Pretty much, except there isn't a Pot 4. 

Pot 1 - 4 teams
Pot 2 - 4 teams
Pot 3 - 8 teams

Check out upcoming international fixtures and highlights of past matches at http://rlfixtures.weebly.com

 

St Albans Centurions International Liaison Officer and former Medway Dragons Wheelchair RL player.

Leeds Rhinos, St Albans Centurions y Griffons Madrid fan. Also follow (to a lesser extent) Catalans Dragons, London Broncos, South Sydney Rabbitohs, Jacksonville Axemen, Vrchlabi Mad Squirrels, København Black Swans, Red Star Belgrade and North Hertfordshire Crusaders.

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On 11/12/2018 at 4:54 PM, Cumbrian Fanatic said:

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/2021-world-cup-format-revealed/?fbclid=IwAR17HDshczrjSh7z18tD_Mv6nCYYw_a5jFBdfdAHFrRkoMkJv_R4FDRnlvk

Four Groups of 4 with 2 to go through from each group

Pot 1: England, Australia, New Zealand an Tonga

Pot 2: Lebanon, Samoa, PNG and Fiji

Pot 3: France, Wales plus 6 others

Looks like they are moving this away from a skewed draw where its fixed England and Australia play in the first game. I must say I was hoping this would happen, makes it more conventional and gives all the Pot 2 and 3 nations a real chance of making the Q/F

Just a thought, why aren't Fiji in Pot 1? Pot 1 seems to be 3 of the the semi-finalist from 2017 plus NZ

Check out upcoming international fixtures and highlights of past matches at http://rlfixtures.weebly.com

 

St Albans Centurions International Liaison Officer and former Medway Dragons Wheelchair RL player.

Leeds Rhinos, St Albans Centurions y Griffons Madrid fan. Also follow (to a lesser extent) Catalans Dragons, London Broncos, South Sydney Rabbitohs, Jacksonville Axemen, Vrchlabi Mad Squirrels, København Black Swans, Red Star Belgrade and North Hertfordshire Crusaders.

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On 11/13/2018 at 10:29 AM, scotchy1 said:

but in the RWC in the group stages Ireland and Scotland will play each other, NZ and SA, England, France and Argentina, Australia and Wales.

I don't see how having England, Australia and NZ basically have 4 weeks of walkovers makes for a more interesting tournament than what we had.

In the next RLWC, we may see in the group stages (depending on qualification) Ireland v Scotland, NZ v SA, England v France and Australia v Wales.

Check out upcoming international fixtures and highlights of past matches at http://rlfixtures.weebly.com

 

St Albans Centurions International Liaison Officer and former Medway Dragons Wheelchair RL player.

Leeds Rhinos, St Albans Centurions y Griffons Madrid fan. Also follow (to a lesser extent) Catalans Dragons, London Broncos, South Sydney Rabbitohs, Jacksonville Axemen, Vrchlabi Mad Squirrels, København Black Swans, Red Star Belgrade and North Hertfordshire Crusaders.

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On 11/13/2018 at 10:44 AM, Dunbar said:

Sorry, but if we have to engineer a Tonga vs. New Zealand and England vs. Australia fixture to make the World Cup entertaining then our sport is in a very sorry state.

The games that this format throws up will be entertaining because our sport is entertaining.

And the quarters, semi's and final will become increasingly competitive.

The trouble is, lots of 'fans' will be saying to neutrals "Don't go to that, it'll be a walkover" as opposed to "It'll be a walkover, but it'll be a hell of a show"

Check out upcoming international fixtures and highlights of past matches at http://rlfixtures.weebly.com

 

St Albans Centurions International Liaison Officer and former Medway Dragons Wheelchair RL player.

Leeds Rhinos, St Albans Centurions y Griffons Madrid fan. Also follow (to a lesser extent) Catalans Dragons, London Broncos, South Sydney Rabbitohs, Jacksonville Axemen, Vrchlabi Mad Squirrels, København Black Swans, Red Star Belgrade and North Hertfordshire Crusaders.

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Wales v Tonga RU live on the BBC at the weekend. 2 tries in first few minutes, looking like a rout, 61k fans in there enjoying it. 70-odd points Wales stuck on them. 

No big deal, huge crowd, fans enjoyed it, national broadcaster covered it, plenty of sponsors.

These things should be events in themselves. 

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1 hour ago, Dave T said:

Wales v Tonga RU live on the BBC at the weekend. 2 tries in first few minutes, looking like a rout, 61k fans in there enjoying it. 70-odd points Wales stuck on them. 

No big deal, huge crowd, fans enjoyed it, national broadcaster covered it, plenty of sponsors.

These things should be events in themselves. 

I don't disagree Dave but can you guess which sport would get beaten with a big stick by the UK press is those kind of scores or worse crop up in the WC group stages whereas a certain other sport will be lauded as a fantastic show of skill, power and pace?

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21 minutes ago, deluded pom? said:

I don't disagree Dave but can you guess which sport would get beaten with a big stick by the UK press is those kind of scores or worse crop up in the WC group stages whereas a certain other sport will be lauded as a fantastic show of skill, power and pace?

There will be some. But then we over think stuff like this. We say stuff like this about the heritage player issue, but tbh many just ignore it or accept that it is a factor of where RL is at the moment.

The RLWC in 2013 gave us a glimpse of what could be, the press coverage, whilst not perfect was a massive step up on anything in my lifetime, and when you have full grounds and a well organised tournament then it helps. When we had 6.5k at Knowsley Rd on a midweek night versus Russia in 2000 it is hard to demand national coverage a d positivity.

I know we are obsessed with crowds here, but a full stadium does make a difference. It makes events m7ch harder to criticise.

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