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John Drake

The Brexit Thread (incl Brexit Party)

Brexit: What should happen now?  

164 members have voted

  1. 1. Brexit: What should happen now?

    • Accept Theresa May's Brexit deal and just get it over and done with
      18
    • Reject Theresa May's Brexit deal and leave with 'No Deal' regardless of the consequences
      48
    • Reject Theresa May's Brexit deal and force a General Election
      12
    • Reject Theresa May's Brexit deal and have a second referendum with 'Remain' as an option
      56
    • Reject Theresa May's Brexit deal and have a second referendum without 'Remain' as an option
      7
    • Something completely different which I'll explain in detail below
      0
    • I have absolutely no idea and have now lost the will to live, just make this stop, for pity's sake
      23


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7 minutes ago, SSoutherner said:

I understand what you are saying but the A & B choice could be distilled into 1

A: Stay as we are with a prmoise of no further integration or votes on treaties without a confirmatory vote each time (Ireland have this garantee I believe)

B. Attempt to disengage from the level of integration we have and reform our membership (this may mean losing some of our rebate)

So which 2 Leave questions would you have on the ballot paper then if these are your preferred Remain options ?


This is captain Juncker speaking. The EU gravy train is about to enter Brussels, so will all Brits please exit at the next stop

To all remaining passengers, thank you for your continued custom and contributions to my pension fund

Kind Regards - YOUR PRESIDENT !

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7 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

Well thats just not true is it !

There are MP's on both sides of the poitical divide that hold differing opinions on our membership of the EU, ranging from those would quite happily see us part of a future federal europe through to those who believed in Cameron's stance of a fully reformed EU.

Nobody would able to commit to us anything different to the current arrangement and nobody is asking for anything different to the current arrangement.

Cameron’s EU reforms were all domestic issues that he could have changed within the framework the EU allows. That’s why he couldn’t get any concessions - there were none to give.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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7 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

Well thats just not true is it !

There are MP's on both sides of the poitical divide that hold differing opinions on our membership of the EU, ranging from those would quite happily see us part of a future federal europe through to those who believed in Cameron's stance of a fully reformed EU.

No, remain is advocating for the current position. Further developments will occur as and when they occur. I don't see any merit at all to having some sort of debate, let alone a vote on hypothetical future scenarios.

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3 minutes ago, Evil Homer said:

No, remain is advocating for the current position. Further developments will occur as and when they occur. I don't see any merit at all to having some sort of debate, let alone a vote on hypothetical future scenarios.

Think what’s happening is that those that saw unicorns in the first place keep seeing them all over the place.

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2 minutes ago, Evil Homer said:

No, remain is advocating for the current position. Further developments will occur as and when they occur. I don't see any merit at all to having some sort of debate, let alone a vote on hypothetical future scenarios.

I agree. You can't go into any election expecting to know exactly what is and isn't going to happen for the next however many years.

By voting Remain you understood that you were committing to the UK being part of the EU for the next, say, 20 years, and us having to accept whatever direction the EU goes in. With the caveat, of course, that IF that direction turned out to be completely unacceptable to us, that we would then revisit the option to leave.

 

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Meanwhile, in Eurostar stopping news...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-47774254

 


"I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel"

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I am a bit more optimistic this week than last.

I would much prefer that we remained. That is the best deal for the UK and requires nothing.

But a Single Market / Customs Union approach would be a fair compromise, reflecting the outcome of the referendum and the importance of the EU to our economy and security. It's probably where I thought we would end up in the days after the referendum, while being sad about what the result said about our country.

And by whipping for the Boles proposal, Labour is actually standing by its voters on both sides of the leave/remain line, albeit without delighting either.


I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.

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15 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

It is a problem , maybe one NI would have to vote on to overcome , don't forget I don't see any issue with a hard border 

You could have NI vote on it (that is in the GFA) but the result of that vote would have to be in before you did more negotiation so you would have to revoke A50 for now, hold that unification/withdrawal vote then use the reults of that to inform the public on whther that part of the tri problem still existed

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1 minute ago, Just Browny said:

I am a bit more optimistic this week than last.

I would much prefer that we remained. That is the best deal for the UK and requires nothing.

But a Single Market / Customs Union approach would be a fair compromise, reflecting the outcome of the referendum and the importance of the EU to our economy and security. It's probably where I thought we would end up in the days after the referendum, while being sad about what the result said about our country.

And by whipping for the Boles proposal, Labour is actually standing by its voters on both sides of the leave/remain line, albeit without delighting either.

Remaining in the SM/CU isn't leaving 

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17 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

So which 2 Leave questions would you have on the ballot paper then if these are your preferred Remain options ?

Ok if we are going 4 options it would have to be

No Deal

May's Deal

Remain but disengage slowly towards EFTA

Remain with votes on any future treaty changes/integration

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1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

Remaining in the SM/CU isn't leaving 

Yes it is. We wouldn't be a member of the EU.

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I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.

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1 minute ago, SSoutherner said:

Norway is not a member of the EU

Erm yep, indeed.


I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.

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6 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

I am a bit more optimistic this week than last.

I would much prefer that we remained. That is the best deal for the UK and requires nothing.

Prior to the referendum in 2016, it required nothing. In my view, it would now require an apology and for compensation to be paid.

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9 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

Prior to the referendum in 2016, it required nothing. In my view, it would now require an apology and for compensation to be paid.

It may politically require it but not legally

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12 minutes ago, SSoutherner said:

Norway is not a member of the EU

But allows freedom of movement , so one of the primary requirements means it isn't leaving , you're either in or out , anything 'in between 'is ' in ' 

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I'm not sure this helps. A lot of people are wary of the USA being all over this - it suggests they are going to get the better of the ensuing negotiations.

 

 

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"I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel"

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8 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

But allows freedom of movement , so one of the primary requirements means it isn't leaving , you're either in or out , anything 'in between 'is ' in ' 

Nope 

 

You may consider it "in" but from a legal standpoint it is outside the EU and as such having a norway situation completely meets the referendum results just not May's later redlines - personally i hate it as there is no control over Eu standard setting etc but it meets the definition of "leaving"

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway–European_Union_relations

The Kingdom of Norway is not a member state of the European Union (EU). It is associated with the Union through its membership in agreements in the European Economic Area (EEA) established in 1994, and by virtue of being a founding member of the European Free Trade Association (EFTA) which was founded in 1960, one of the two historically dominant western European trade blocs. Norway had twice considered joining the European Community and the European Union, but opted to decline following referenda in 1972 and 1994.

 

Edited by SSoutherner
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1 hour ago, Saint Toppy said:

1 - Polls are notoriously inaccurate, hence why the only true reflection of public opinion is an actual vote (which we've had already)

2 - MP's may have invoked A50 expecting a deal, but its the very same MP's who have voted down every single option. There was game playing and personal political manoevering going on and its backfired spectaculalrly on everyone.

Do you think the deal should've been passed? 

Only people who don't understand or wish to ignore polls think they're notoriously inaccurate. I picked 90% to make it unambiguous, I'd still like to know your reply. 

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1 minute ago, tim2 said:

I'm not sure this helps. A lot of people are wary of the USA being all over this - it suggests they are going to get the better of the ensuing negotiations.

 

 

It's ok. We'll just spend three years negotiating with them before announcing that actually we don't want a deal after all.

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50 minutes ago, John Drake said:

Nothing is ever 'final' in a democracy.

It's a key point about democracy that seems to have got lost round about June 2016.

It wasn't lost. Just ask Nigel Farage on the night of 23rd June 2016.

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55 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

I would suggest the opposite , yes at the referendum there was probably no definitive ' leave option ' voted for , but now I think you'd find that ' no deal ' would romp home among leave voters , the divisive thinking is in Parliament , not necessarily among the actual public 

So let me get this straight. Leave won a referendum narrowly 52-48, and that 52% get to decide which Brexit we go for?

Even though whichever option they choose will almost certainly be a smaller number than the 48% who voted to remain? 

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51 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

Well thats just not true is it !

There are MP's on both sides of the poitical divide that hold differing opinions on our membership of the EU, ranging from those would quite happily see us part of a future federal europe through to those who believed in Cameron's stance of a fully reformed EU.

This is completely disingenuous. 

We all know what remaining would've looked like. It would have been a continuation of our membership as it was the day before the referendum.

Hypotheticals about the direction the EU might take in the future is fundamentally different to Leave voters being unable to agree on what an acceptable Brexit looks like. 

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