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John Drake

The Brexit Thread (incl Brexit Party)

Brexit: What should happen now?  

164 members have voted

  1. 1. Brexit: What should happen now?

    • Accept Theresa May's Brexit deal and just get it over and done with
      18
    • Reject Theresa May's Brexit deal and leave with 'No Deal' regardless of the consequences
      48
    • Reject Theresa May's Brexit deal and force a General Election
      12
    • Reject Theresa May's Brexit deal and have a second referendum with 'Remain' as an option
      56
    • Reject Theresa May's Brexit deal and have a second referendum without 'Remain' as an option
      7
    • Something completely different which I'll explain in detail below
      0
    • I have absolutely no idea and have now lost the will to live, just make this stop, for pity's sake
      23


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22 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

But allows freedom of movement , so one of the primary requirements means it isn't leaving , you're either in or out , anything 'in between 'is ' in ' 

You can stop being a member of a gym and still use the facilities. 

You are however no longer a member of the gym. 

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22 minutes ago, tim2 said:

I'm not sure this helps. A lot of people are wary of the USA being all over this - it suggests they are going to get the better of the ensuing negotiations.

 

 

Paraphrased: "We want first plunder of the UK and will get very annoyed if anyone else beats us to it".


“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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24 minutes ago, SSoutherner said:

Nope 

 

You may consider it "in" but from a legal standpoint it is outside the EU and as such having a norway situation completely meets the referendum results just not May's later redlines - personally i hate it as there is no control over Eu standard setting etc but it meets the definition of "leaving"

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway–European_Union_relations

The Kingdom of Norway is not a member state of the European Union (EU). It is associated with the Union through its membership in agreements in the European Economic Area (EEA) established in 1994, and by virtue of being a founding member of the European Free Trade Association (EFTA) which was founded in 1960, one of the two historically dominant western European trade blocs. Norway had twice considered joining the European Community and the European Union, but opted to decline following referenda in 1972 and 1994.

 

Not mine

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1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

Not mine

What is your definition? Complete isolation from the rest of the world? A North Korea-type state? Even North Korea has trade deals.

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15 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

So let me get this straight. Leave won a referendum narrowly 52-48, and that 52% get to decide which Brexit we go for?

Even though whichever option they choose will almost certainly be a smaller number than the 48% who voted to remain? 

I'd disagree fairly confident you'd get all leavers going for a no deal right now 

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23 minutes ago, SSoutherner said:

Nope 

 

You may consider it "in" but from a legal standpoint it is outside the EU and as such having a norway situation completely meets the referendum results just not May's later redlines - personally i hate it as there is no control over Eu standard setting etc but it meets the definition of "leaving"

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway–European_Union_relations

The Kingdom of Norway is not a member state of the European Union (EU). It is associated with the Union through its membership in agreements in the European Economic Area (EEA) established in 1994, and by virtue of being a founding member of the European Free Trade Association (EFTA) which was founded in 1960, one of the two historically dominant western European trade blocs. Norway had twice considered joining the European Community and the European Union, but opted to decline following referenda in 1972 and 1994.

 

We so often hear that remainers don't know why leave voters voted the way they did.

Nor do leave voters but many leave voters are more than willing to presume that the reasons they voted to leave are the reasons everyone did.

It is not leavers fault that the referendum question was vague which has caused many of our subsequent problems. However, all it said was about no longer being a member of the EU. Technically any Brexit that means we are no longer a member of the EU honours the referendum result.

We can of course make some reasonable assumptions, for instance that ending free movement of people is likely to have been a reason for almost all. However, issues such as the customs union are much more flakey and far less clean cut. 

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9 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

You can stop being a member of a gym and still use the facilities. 

You are however no longer a member of the gym. 

Yes and for that use you have to pay , but the price is freedom of movement , one of the primary reason for voting leave , so the cost is too high imo

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This debate has already been done.  It is no use trying to converse with monkeys. 

Saintslass and Gubrats have clarified where they stand on the three tests. Saintslass sees Irish national sovereignty as the problem, whereas Gubrats does not wish to engage with reality over his convictions and does not see why consequences should concern him. They might not be the answers wanted, but they have been given. 

Despite the optimism, a No Deal might explain what the issue is.  The reality might be a shock. Those who are full of BS often are concerned about reality if it affects them rather than other people. 

Edited by Bob8
  • Like 1

"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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23 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

It's ok. We'll just spend three years negotiating with them before announcing that actually we don't want a deal after all.

It's suddenly all so clear. Brexit has just been used as war gaming for future trade negotiations, and to send a message to the nations of the world that they will never come across a more inscrutable opponent than the UK.

You can picture delegations flying out of London, shell-shocked and fatigued, referring to the engagement as "their Vietnam".

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1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

Yes and for that use you have to pay , but the price is freedom of movement , one of the primary reason for voting leave , so the cost is too high imo

But it is still not membership. That's the principle behind my analogy. 

As I said it's not your fault or mine that the question wasn't as clear as it should have been. 

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4 minutes ago, Evil Homer said:

What is your definition? Complete isolation from the rest of the world? A North Korea-type state? Even North Korea has trade deals.

My definition is starting with a ' clean slate ' with the EU , then we get whatever the best deal we and they negotiate 

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Just now, GUBRATS said:

My definition is starting with a ' clean slate ' with the EU , then we get whatever the best deal we and they negotiate 

Uh, we've been trying to do that for the past two years and it hasn't really gone well.

Any specific objections to the deal we currently have?

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2 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

Really, all leavers?

After all, if only 5% of them don't want it then you've lost your majority. 

You are presuming everybody votes the same as before , but even that isn't the point to this particular discussion , you and others are suggesting that the voting public are as split as our parliament is over what they want from Brexit , I suggest try aren't , if push comes to shove I believe you would get a unanimous no deal if the other option meant remaining 

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5 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

But it is still not membership. That's the principle behind my analogy. 

As I said it's not your fault or mine that the question wasn't as clear as it should have been. 

What people have to understand here is the process is only at its begining , the EU made it quite clear no discussions until Article 50 , then no actual trade discussions until the withdrawal agreement , long way to go yet 

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5 minutes ago, Evil Homer said:

Uh, we've been trying to do that for the past two years and it hasn't really gone well.

Any specific objections to the deal we currently have?

We haven't even started yet , the current deal puts one hand behind our back before we start , all everything I would expect from the EU s negotiators , so now we call their bluff 

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With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

We haven't even started yet , the current deal puts one hand behind our back before we start , all everything I would expect from the EU s negotiators , so now we call their bluff 

What improvements do you think we'll be able to get on the current deal?

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Ken Clarke taking no prisoners with his own side in his speech!

Selling the Customs Union quite well, and being ably aided by the EU saying it'd accept it.


“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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57 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

Jon Snow draws complaints for 'white people' remark at Brexit rally:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-47774564

Heard this at the time and was horrified someone on the news could be so naive as to come out with such a statement .The inference being that the Brexit rally was a march by white people who voted leave solely on the immigration issue .Is this some form of reverse racism ?If he had made a similar comment about other ethnic or religious groups i am sure the reaction to it would have been far stronger . 

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1 minute ago, Evil Homer said:

What improvements do you think we'll be able to get on the current deal?

Far to busy to be going into that on here I'm afraid 

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2 minutes ago, ckn said:

Ken Clarke taking no prisoners with his own side in his speech!

Selling the Customs Union quite well, and being ably aided by the EU saying it'd accept it.

Well considering they want us to stay , they would , wouldn't they ?

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28 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

I'd disagree fairly confident you'd get all leavers going for a no deal right now 

Nope - 65%

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/03/13/xx-xx-britons-want-mps-vote-against-no-deal-brexit

Unsurprisingly, Remain voters are the most opposed to a No Deal Brexit, with 76% saying they wanted MPs to vote against it. Leave voters are overwhelmingly receptive, with 65% wanting MPs to take Britain out of the EU without a deal, and only 19% want them to prevent such an outcome

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27 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Yes and for that use you have to pay , but the price is freedom of movement , one of the primary reason for voting leave , so the cost is too high imo

Depends where in the country you are - in the League heartlands that may be the case - in London and SE England far less so and whenever remainers said freedom of movement was the biggest issue Leavers kept telling us that wasnt the case

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1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

It doesn't 

There should be no option on any referendum ballot paper that does not satisfy the Brexit Triplet problem. 

Because if there is such an option, and people are foolish enough to vote for it, we’ll end up right back where we are now and we’ll just end up having to have another go. 

All options in any referendum must be practically possible.  Absolutely no unicorns. 


English, Irish, Brit, Yorkshire, European.  Citizen of the People's Republic of Yorkshire, the Republic of Ireland, the United Kingdom and the European Union.  Critical of all it.  Proud of all it.    

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