Keighley

[JohnM 5,872]

3 hours ago, Marrafan said:

Quite happy to take money from “Meagre 1” clubs to keep your players fit for you though.

Actually, my point really was about the stupid, childish, inane and ignorant labelling of SuperLeague as Super Greed.

[Angelic Cynic 898]

1 hour ago, BD20Cougar said:

For everyone asking if there is hope, the simple answer is that as long as Shane Spencer owns the club, no. The man has no interest in running a rugby league club and only bought one in the first place because he thought he was getting the stadium. If Mr Spencer can be removed, either by being bought out or by the current club being liquidated and a new one formed, then yes there is hope. There's a lot of people working hard behind the scenes to put together a group of people who can take the club forward alongside a supporters trust.

Whether this happens in time for Keighley Cougars to take part in the 2019 season is a different matter. The way I see this heading if I'm being honest is Keighley going down the Hemel route of taking a year out with a view to re-entering in 2020, dependent on the RFL allowing us to do so.

   Thanks for that.

  Despite the country closing for a fortnight to 'celebrate Christmas' the club could benefit if it could be financially sorted and Steve Gill remains interested.If only for his contacts with Castleford and the potential for players from that club.

  That stated,I am still to see any official dual registrations announced for 2019 between any 2 clubs.Have I missed them?

   They must be happening if there is no reserve competition.

   With Mr Fawcett not being Mr Popular due to his phone issue with hospitals and schools,and the latest trouble,it will need maximum good publicity to get things going for Keighley.

    Best wishes for their followers.

[Clogiron 1,349]

Now Steve Gills resigned, thought he'd done that a couple of times already, so that's no coach, no training staff, no manager, very few if any players, is there anyone left still to leave?

I find it hard to recall any team in any sport that has taken a year out then returned, some may have returned a few years down the line under new ownership eg in speedway, and maybe Newport County in football or was that a completely different set up, certainly at a different ground, and therein lies a problems will the Co-op, if they do own the ground,will they be prepared to let it stand empty for a year on the off chance that something might materialize or will they see it as a opportunity to sell the land on.

[TIWIT 854]

Will the last one out the door please turn out the lights?

[spanishknight 1,847]

3 minutes ago, Clogiron said:

Now Steve Gills resigned, thought he'd done that a couple of times already, so that's no coach, no training staff, no manager, very few if any players, is there anyone left still to leave?

I find it hard to recall any team in any sport that has taken a year out then returned, some may have returned a few years down the line under new ownership eg in speedway, and maybe Newport County in football or was that a completely different set up, certainly at a different ground, and therein lies a problems will the Co-op, if they do own the ground,will they be prepared to let it stand empty for a year on the off chance that something might materialize or will they see it as a opportunity to sell the land on.

York Knights took a year out in 2002 and came back stronger untill we got a new chairman, now hes gone things have never looked better, good luck hope Keighley come back bigger and stronger.

 

[DEANO 1,039]

7 minutes ago, spanishknight said:

York Knights took a year out in 2002 and came back stronger untill we got a new chairman, now hes gone things have never looked better, good luck hope Keighley come back bigger and stronger.

 

Err no they never. They went bust mid season and all results were expunged and re-started the following season

[RS 172]

2 minutes ago, DEANO said:

Err no they never. They went bust mid season and all results were expunged and re-started the following season

I don’t think that was the point made really- the point made still stands 

[Manx RL 1,101]

14 minutes ago, TIWIT said:

Will the last one out the door please turn out the lights?

They don’t need to. The electricity bill hasn’t been paid.

[TIWIT 854]

Ah, so they're all stumbling about in the dark! That explains a lot.

[Wiltshire Warrior Dragon 823]

I see that Keighley have been included in the released League 1 fixture list, which I think makes sense.  If they fold, then teams due to play them have a bye, but if, as I hope, they pull through, then they can fulfill their fixtures, the schedule for which is now known.

[Oliver Clothesoff 2,696]

1 hour ago, Wiltshire Warrior Dragon said:

I see that Keighley have been included in the released League 1 fixture list, which I think makes sense.  If they fold, then teams due to play them have a bye, but if, as I hope, they pull through, then they can fulfill their fixtures, the schedule for which is now known.

If they folded would it not make sense for the two teams who don’t have games scheduled, to play another league game, rather than two sides doing nothing every week?

[Wiltshire Warrior Dragon 823]

Yes, it probably would, in that scenario, OC.  However, for now, like us all I imagine, I am glad that Keighley are in the fixture list.

[Oliver Clothesoff 2,696]

Just now, Wiltshire Warrior Dragon said:

Yes, it probably would, in that scenario, OC.  However, for now, like us all I imagine, I am glad that Keighley are in the fixture list.

Of course, however, I’d hope that there is some common sense used in case they don’t make it. However, I won’t hold my breath on that. 

[The 4 of Us 928]

4 hours ago, Wiltshire Warrior Dragon said:

I see that Keighley have been included in the released League 1 fixture list, which I think makes sense.  If they fold, then teams due to play them have a bye, but if, as I hope, they pull through, then they can fulfill their fixtures, the schedule for which is now known.

There’s already a bye with Hemel pulling out. With KC gone it’s a 10 team division and an even fixture list. 

[MidlandsJohn 10]

On 11/24/2018 at 7:26 PM, Clogiron said:

I find it hard to recall any team in any sport that has taken a year out then returned

I can't think of anything like that in the UK - maybe non-league football is where you'd find an example?

The problem is, the usual punishment for a club leaving the league is to start again being demoted somewhere down the structure. The problem for RL is there's no real way to do this - you can't drop Keighley into something like the National Conference as there's no P+R route back, yet keeping them in League 1 looks embarrassing to those outside RL as it appears as though a club can just jump straight back to where they were without any visible punishment - and who's to say that the financial problems won't hit again several years down the line?

The closest example I can think of comes from handball (strange I know but bear with me). There was a German club called Tarp-Wanderup who up until their demise were playing in the Second Division. They'd overstretched their budget, were playing in a crumbling stadium and by the end were only attracting around 300-400 crowds (sounding familiar). In the end they couldn't continue and withdrew but then reformed the club - but the German federation demoted them to the Third Division (regionalised instead of national) and also made them ineligible for promotion in their first season back.

[TIWIT 854]

One wonders if the club had to put up some sort of 'performance bond' to ensure that they have enough money to complete the season, because nothing makes a league look minor-league than a team dropping out mid-season.

But where did that money come from?

[Clogiron 1,349]

9 hours ago, TIWIT said:

One wonders if the club had to put up some sort of 'performance bond' to ensure that they have enough money to complete the season, because nothing makes a league look minor-league than a team dropping out mid-season.

But where did that money come from?

Surprised you've survived 9hr without getting savaged over that one, I suggested something similar and was immediately accoused of wanting to kill off over half the club's in the RL, people don't seem to grasp the fact that if they can't pay the bond there unlikely to be able to finance a effective club for a few seasons.

[RP London 2,040]

26 minutes ago, Clogiron said:

Surprised you've survived 9hr without getting savaged over that one, I suggested something similar and was immediately accoused of wanting to kill off over half the club's in the RL, people don't seem to grasp the fact that if they can't pay the bond there unlikely to be able to finance a effective club for a few seasons.

i dont mind the idea of a bond to be placed however, the bit in bold I think is tosh.. a club can be financed by ongoing earnings you dont need to have a wedge of cash up front to be able to do that. To be able to find a "bond" can seriously damage the cash flow of a club and it is always cash flow that is king in any business. So to find a bond can actually be the death knell of the business/club and it can be the idea of a bond that the necessitates you having to place and use said bond.

Equally depending on the size of the bond the club can surpass said bond quite quickly.. making it a little on the pointless side. 

As i say I dont disagree with a bond but it has to be heavily thought through so as not to damage the ability for clubs to actually survive. its a tough one. 

[Manx RL 1,101]

54 minutes ago, RP London said:

i dont mind the idea of a bond to be placed however, the bit in bold I think is tosh.. a club can be financed by ongoing earnings you dont need to have a wedge of cash up front to be able to do that. To be able to find a "bond" can seriously damage the cash flow of a club and it is always cash flow that is king in any business. So to find a bond can actually be the death knell of the business/club and it can be the idea of a bond that the necessitates you having to place and use said bond.

Equally depending on the size of the bond the club can surpass said bond quite quickly.. making it a little on the pointless side. 

As i say I dont disagree with a bond but it has to be heavily thought through so as not to damage the ability for clubs to actually survive. its a tough one. 

Way back in 2002 Skolars and York had to get £75k together as a form of bond. £75k wouldn't go so far these days.

Unlikely that existing member clubs had to retrospectively meet the requirement pay to play alongside them.

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/london-skolars-join-leagues-pro-ranks-6332218.html

[RP London 2,040]

21 minutes ago, Manx RL said:

Way back in 2002 Skolars and York had to get £75k together as a form of bond. £75k wouldn't go so far these days.

Unlikely that existing member clubs had to retrospectively meet the requirement pay to play alongside them.

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/london-skolars-join-leagues-pro-ranks-6332218.html

I thought that and nearly wrote it but wasn't confident enough.. always thought there was a £75k bond.. wonder whether it is still there for the new clubs. 

 

[Clogiron 1,349]

2 hours ago, RP London said:

i dont mind the idea of a bond to be placed however, the bit in bold I think is tosh.. a club can be financed by ongoing earnings you dont need to have a wedge of cash up front to be able to do that. To be able to find a "bond" can seriously damage the cash flow of a club and it is always cash flow that is king in any business. So to find a bond can actually be the death knell of the business/club and it can be the idea of a bond that the necessitates you having to place and use said bond.

Equally depending on the size of the bond the club can surpass said bond quite quickly.. making it a little on the pointless side. 

As i say I dont disagree with a bond but it has to be heavily thought through so as not to damage the ability for clubs to actually survive. its a tough one. 

As I have said before the upfront payment of the bond would discourage the type of 'chancers' and suchlike who lead clubs into the sort of situations we see all too often, and be there to help pay the debts they leave behind. If a owner sells a club he sells the bond on to the new owner. Of course this is RL so it will never happen, far too difficult to implement, not fair etc, etc.

[RP London 2,040]

17 minutes ago, Clogiron said:

As I have said before the upfront payment of the bond would discourage the type of 'chancers' and suchlike who lead clubs into the sort of situations we see all too often, and be there to help pay the debts they leave behind. If a owner sells a club he sells the bond on to the new owner. Of course this is RL so it will never happen, far too difficult to implement, not fair etc, etc.

Sadly it would also potentially discourage people who are not chancers, who want to build a club but cannot get together a large bond to lodge with the RFL. 

As I said I dont disagree with it necessarily. However, it could discourage some clubs that could be good for the league as well as keeping out some that wont. 

Equally debts can easily go above the bond.. 

Its not always a chancer but circumstances that lead to the demise of clubs. Yes this guy may well be a chancer, he may well have not got involved with the club had a bond been in place but equally the clubs still may have disappeared anyway..

A bond doesnt solve everything, it probably only actually solves one very small part of the issue and potentially to the detriment of some positives. 

I'm not against the bond as I say but it has to be looked at long and hard and in the round rather than as a knee jerk. 

[Clogiron 1,349]

10 minutes ago, RP London said:

Sadly it would also potentially discourage people who are not chancers, who want to build a club but cannot get together a large bond to lodge with the RFL. 

As I said I dont disagree with it necessarily. However, it could discourage some clubs that could be good for the league as well as keeping out some that wont. 

Equally debts can easily go above the bond.. 

Its not always a chancer but circumstances that lead to the demise of clubs. Yes this guy may well be a chancer, he may well have not got involved with the club had a bond been in place but equally the clubs still may have disappeared anyway..

A bond doesnt solve everything, it probably only actually solves one very small part of the issue and potentially to the detriment of some positives. 

I'm not against the bond as I say but it has to be looked at long and hard and in the round rather than as a knee jerk. 

As I said previously when has the RFL ever displayed those sort considerations and forward planning, everything's a on the hoof reaction.

[RP London 2,040]

2 minutes ago, Clogiron said:

As I said previously when has the RFL ever displayed those sort considerations and forward planning, everything's a on the hoof reaction.

but your suggesting to just use an "on the hoof reaction" to solve this issue rather than think it through for both its positives and its negatives... seems a bit odd to be honest.. 

[Clogiron 1,349]

Never said implement it now, this moment, it needs careful consideration as you say structurally and leagally but it would be a indication that something  is being done to address the situation instead of the present inertia.