UK RL desperately needs a Manchester club

[The Daddy]

..... in it's league structure.

I don't see why that shouldn't be Manchester Rangers. They have waited long enough. 

Now what I'm hearing along the grapevine is that Swinton, Oldham, Rochdale and Salford lobbied to prevent Rangers from entering the League structure purely out of self interest. In my view all of these clubs are walking dead, failed entities adding little to no value to the sport. Salford are a pro team that doesn't even have an academy set up FFS. 

As a sport we can do better than this and the picture I'm getting is that some historic clubs just want to keep their place in the league structure without bringing anything that enhances the sport in the UK. History and tradition is being used for emotional blackmail and it's stunting the growth of RL.

On the one hand these clubs staunchly state that they are not in Manchester and refuse to rebrand themselves as such or even embrace that market but they also don't want competition from an actual Manchester club. Unfortunately self interest rules the roost within RL in the uk and that's why we are where we are.

Despite not having a major club Manchester has a rich RL history, plenty of grand finals, premierships and test matches. This history deserves a strong club. 

I read somewhere recently that Robert Elstone visited one of the boutique stadiums on the Ethiad site and stated that it would be the perfect place for a Manchester SL club. If Mr Elstone can pull a few strings to make this happen then we'll done to him. 

 

 

[Manx RL]

6 minutes ago, The Daddy said:

..... in it's league structure.

I don't see why that shouldn't be Manchester Rangers. They have waited long enough. 

Now what I'm hearing along the grapevine is that Swinton, Oldham, Rochdale and Salford lobbied to prevent Rangers from entering the League structure purely out of self interest. In my view all of these clubs are walking dead, failed entities adding little to no value to the sport. Salford are a pro team that doesn't even have an academy set up FFS. 

As a sport we can do better than this and the picture I'm getting is that some historic clubs just want to keep their place in the league structure without bringing anything that enhances the sport in the UK. History and tradition is being used for emotional blackmail and it's stunting the growth of RL.

On the one hand these clubs staunchly state that they are not in Manchester and refuse to rebrand themselves as such or even embrace that market but they also don't want competition from an actual Manchester club. Unfortunately self interest rules the roost within RL in the uk and that's why we are where we are.

Despite not having a major club Manchester has a rich RL history, plenty of grand finals, premierships and test matches. This history deserves a strong club. 

I read somewhere recently that Robert Elstone visited one of the boutique stadiums on the Ethiad site and stated that it would be the perfect place for a Manchester SL club. If Mr Elstone can pull a few strings to make this happen then we'll done to him. 

 

 

Manchester Rangers could merge with Salford and be their ‘academy’

[westlondonfan]

Good post. If you are looking to get new fans then a new club might be a good idea. Manchester Rangers has a good ring to it for me. The problem with clubs like Swinton and Oldham being able to prevent this taking place is that they themselves are not anywhere near the clubs that they once were. They don’t look like they will ever be the clubs that they once were ever again. 

[The Daddy]

27 minutes ago, westlondonfan said:

Good post. If you are looking to get new fans then a new club might be a good idea. Manchester Rangers has a good ring to it for me. The problem with clubs like Swinton and Oldham being able to prevent this taking place is that they themselves are not anywhere near the clubs that they once were. They don’t look like they will ever be the clubs that they once were ever again. 

And this is the ridiculous thing about the situation. Failed championship and SL clubs are having too much of a say in how the sport is run over here and this has to stop. 

[westlondonfan]

20 minutes ago, The Daddy said:

And this is the ridiculous thing about the situation. Failed championship and SL clubs are having too much of a say in how the sport is run over here and this has to stop. 

If RL wants to become more successful then that has got to be right. Otherwise these clubs may end up dragging the whole sport down at professional level.

[Oliver Clothesoff]

The city of Salford had a population of 246,000 in 2015, more populous than Warrington, St Helens, Castleford, Huddersfield and Widnes. Salford’s AJ Bell Stadium is little over 8 miles from the centre of Manchester, which is heavily populated.

I do not believe that the club’s name dictates the level of support it has. It’s a cheap excuse. 

[EF2000]

Went past the Shitehole of the Etihad Campus (Im a united fan lol) and must admit the Academy Stadium would be an awesome Super League Stadium in the Future. 

[headtackle]

Salford have never been massively supported but did used to have a decent walk up support at the Willows. Deciding to put your new stadium away from walk up support, on the one of the busiest motorway junctions in the country and with limited ways in and out, and playing your games when rush hour jams are still in play doesn't help.

The Etihad campus looks a fantastic venue and is ideally located. Like it or not Manchester would be a more recognisable brand and am sure would attract support and do well.

If "traditional" clubs are deliberately holding this back and preventing growth does that beg the question as to whether  "franchising" and creating a SL out of strategically beneficial clubs is the best option with those excluded benefitting from the resulting increased profile of the game

Alternatively expand SL through conference structure as appears to be seriously considered by Union at the moment

 

 

 

[Spidey]

2 hours ago, The Daddy said:

And this is the ridiculous thing about the situation. Failed championship and SL clubs are having too much of a say in how the sport is run over here and this has to stop. 

If you’re a member of an organisation of course you should have more say in how the organisation is run than a prospective member

[Damien]

I certainly agree that Manchester needs a Super League club but certainly think it should be a standalone club, not Salford moving or some sort of bizarre Oldham, Rochdale merger that I have seen muted. We need more teams in all towns and cities and a thriving Manchester club would compliment the others and create a healthy rivalry and I think it could help Salford, in particular, rather than hinder them.

[Niels]

I understand the post but Salford is so near Manchester that surely if there was a large league support then Mancunians would go there. 

Old Trafford is technically in Stretford (I think) and that doesn't stop people going.

I just don't think the game appeals to people in big cities. Leeds is an exception though a lot of the fanbase is in North Leeds areas. 

[Clogiron]

Swinton seem to be under the impression that if they could return to a ground in Swinton it's self everything would be great, how long is it since they left Station Road? 20odd year's and then they were only getting a 1000 or less so there's no latent support that's going to come flooding back. Oldham have returned to the town a couple of times now and seen no significant crowd increase, it's still down to one man to keep them going. The thing that they both along with Rochdale and others have is the demographic of their towns have changed considerably from their heday and they are extremely unlikely to attract the newcomers as they have no affinity with the sport and are far more likley to attach themselves to a Premiership soccer team because it's fashionable and cool to do so than a lowly Div one RL team.  Times have moved on but the game hasn't.

[Gorbals]

Who would support them, and why don't they already support Salford? 

On the one hand, Manchester is a big "city" of nearly 3m people, but a quarter of SL were from that "city" (Leigh, Wigan, Salford) recently

On the other hand, it's a "city" of 500,000 which hasn't ever really bought into RL, contains a lot of students, immigrants and other transient types and is utterly besotted with football

To achieve an average crowd of even 10k you probably need 20-25k supporters, I don't see where Manchester will magic them from. By all means Manchester Rangers should be allowed and encouraged to grow, but I'm not sure the local market could sustain another team. 

 

[DimmestStar]

Manchester is the 6th largest city in the United Kingdom with an estimated population of 530,300 in 2016.

[Oliver Clothesoff]

If you’re from Manchester, you’ve heard of Salford as a place. The premise that “the game desperately needs a Manchester team”. The game desperately needs many things at present but a team from Manchester isn’t one of the top 50 things Rugby League is in need of. 

Salford and most of the present Super League clubs are guilty of awful marketing. So is the game as a whole. 

[Damien]

I think it goes without saying that Rugby League in this country would benefit from more big, strong clubs in big cities. I have always thought that expansion certainly isn't all about London and the South. There are vast swathes of the North were expansion can be targeted and where Rugby League has no or little presence but where expansion is easier due to the close proximity to the heartlands, such as availability of players, more income from away fans etc. If for example we had clubs in Liverpool and Manchester and if the likes of Sheffield, York, Newcastle and Coventry (Midlands I know) could progress and become strong Championship/Super League clubs then that is many of the biggest cities in England playing Rugby League and would undoubtedly be more attractive to sponsors and TV companies.

[Gorbals]

2 hours ago, DimmestStar said:

Manchester is the 6th largest city in the United Kingdom with an estimated population of 530,300 in 2016.

6th largest local authority maybe. Nobody seriously thinks Bradford is bigger than Manchester, do they? In fact, in your first link, Manchester comes in at 12th with a population of 395k (2001 census figures)! 

[mark richardson]

A whole debate started by the daddy based on assumptions 

One that the club's named vetoed rangers joining  and two that these clubs vehemently deny being from Manchester 

Funnily enough Swinton decided to brand themselves Swinton Manchester last year 

They've restarted  their academy and are hoping to start a reserve team 

One of their jersey front sponsors is BEEMANC  with their symbol proudly up front 

If history and tradition count for nothing then the sport is lost 

This county/ city has several poorly supported clubs so let's add another based in the poorest district of entire metropolis 

My summary  is that this whole debate is nonsense and a bit of trolling 

 

Do some research, learn about the club's around you and come back with a theory based on fact not made up in your own mind  grapevine tittletattle 

[Omott91]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

I think it goes without saying that Rugby League in this country would benefit from more big, strong clubs in big cities. I have always thought that expansion certainly isn't all about London and the South. There are vast swathes of the North were expansion can be targeted and where Rugby League has no or little presence but where expansion is easier due to the close proximity to the heartlands, such as availability of players, more income from away fans etc. If for example we had clubs in Liverpool and Manchester and if the likes of Sheffield, York, Newcastle and Coventry (Midlands I know) could progress and become strong Championship/Super League clubs then that is many of the biggest cities in England playing Rugby League and would undoubtedly be more attractive to sponsors and TV companies.

Looking at it from an Aussie perspective on the map St Helens and Warrington are suburbs of Liverpool. It's only 15km or so. To me wouldn't Liverpool have 2 teams? To me it's like saying Sydney only has 1 team.

[Damien]

24 minutes ago, Omott91 said:

Looking at it from an Aussie perspective on the map St Helens and Warrington are suburbs of Liverpool. It's only 15km or so. To me wouldn't Liverpool have 2 teams? To me it's like saying Sydney only has 1 team.

No not at all. It doesn't work like that in England.

[Damien]

1 hour ago, mark richardson said:

A whole debate started by the daddy based on assumptions 

One that the club's named vetoed rangers joining  and two that these clubs vehemently deny being from Manchester 

Funnily enough Swinton decided to brand themselves Swinton Manchester last year 

They've restarted  their academy and are hoping to start a reserve team 

One of their jersey front sponsors is BEEMANC  with their symbol proudly up front 

If history and tradition count for nothing then the sport is lost 

This county/ city has several poorly supported clubs so let's add another based in the poorest district of entire metropolis 

My summary  is that this whole debate is nonsense and a bit of trolling 

 

Do some research, learn about the club's around you and come back with a theory based on fact not made up in your own mind  grapevine tittletattle 

Swinton have no more right to be a Manchester club than anyone else. The Swinton name is still Swinton Lions and all of its branding still refers to this. Sticking Manchester on the badge doesn't really cut it and isn't really branding as a Manchester club. This is even more so when they are playing at a RU club in Sale and have been homeless for almost 30 years. What history and tradition have Swinton got these days? Maybe it's because of failing clubs like Swinton that a club truly representing Manchester is needed.

Manchester Rangers have done some sterling work in Manchester and it's also more than a little insulting to them that clubs from elsewhere think that sticking Manchester on the badge makes them somehow more worthy.

[The Future is League]

4 hours ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

If you’re from Manchester, you’ve heard of Salford as a place. The premise that “the game desperately needs a Manchester team”. The game desperately needs many things at present but a team from Manchester isn’t one of the top 50 things Rugby League is in need of. 

Salford and most of the present Super League clubs are guilty of awful marketing. So is the game as a whole. 

Rugby League has always been poorly marketed in this country as long as i can remember. Its costing the game a huge amount in lost revenue through fans and sponsorship.

[mark richardson]

6 hours ago, Damien said:

Swinton have no more right to be a Manchester club than anyone else. The Swinton name is still Swinton Lions and all of its branding still refers to this. Sticking Manchester on the badge doesn't really cut it and isn't really branding as a Manchester club. This is even more so when they are playing at a RU club in Sale and have been homeless for almost 30 years. What history and tradition have Swinton got these days? Maybe it's because of failing clubs like Swinton that a club truly representing Manchester is needed.

Manchester Rangers have done some sterling work in Manchester and it's also more than a little insulting to them that clubs from elsewhere think that sticking Manchester on the badge makes them somehow more worthy.

The point about Manchester is that the original poster suggested that 

1 swinton and other local clubs have vetoed Manchester rangers joining the rl which was his own assumption and I believe it's based on nothing more than something he's imagined 

2 swinton and other local clubs deny being from Manchester 

Those were the points I was refuting 

Finally I'd welcome Manchester rangers 

I think they'd be an asset to the local game 

And do you know what I wouldn't attack them criticise them or mock their history 

Their history will never be as INCREDIBLE as Swinton and Oldham and Salford though and if that counts as nothing to you I don't think you're really a fan of the sport

[Oliver Clothesoff]

Unless Manchester Rangers have some sort of multi-millionaire owner with a vision to take them to Super League ASAP, which I don’t believe they do, then what we’re getting is another “bottom feeder” of a club that certainly won’t be grabbing the attention of a city like Manchester and pulling thousands in the turnstiles.

 

 

[John WP Fan]

This captures for me one of the main differences in sports culture between RL in the UK and North America. UK fans say there ought to be a team in Manchester. I look at the map and think "there are already 6-8 teams there!". I know the history of loyalty to each local team makes it difficult or impossible to establish a new team representing the broader area, but it looks to me as if that prime market has been fragmented in a way that destroys its ability to support a financially strong team.