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scotchy1

9s, more marquee players,

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2 hours ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Surely, if its “new beginnings” that we’re after, it’s not about us old timers who are already invested fans of the sport? 

Exactly. It's the very point of 9s to capture people who aren't served by the current game and not simply get more from those who are. 

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1 hour ago, Rupert Prince said:

I agree. And to whose benefit is £5 million... not the RFL or SL.  It's money not available to go to other away matches.  And a 9s tournament!! 

By all means make a splash at the start of the season at say Headingly, where you might get 20k, or 30+ at Elland Rd.  But the real splash would be filling a chunk of TV space to show off the game.  But if take it to Dubai, well don't expect many to turn up when only17000 watched NZ in Hull.

Nobody is going to go and stand in headingley for 16hrs over a weekend in January. You would get hypothermia. 

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31 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Nobody is going to go and stand in headingley for 16hrs over a weekend in January. You would get hypothermia. 

Assuming it involves 12 SL teams at 15 mins a game and 4 teams with a bye and add in a plate competition, that's a lot less than 16 hours. More like 5.

But wherever played, I imagine it as being a TV event to promote the season.

 

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1 minute ago, Rupert Prince said:

Assuming it involves 12 SL teams at 15 mins a game and 4 teams with a bye and add in a plate competition, that's a lot less than 16 hours. More like 5.

But wherever played, I imagine it as being a TV event to promote the season.

5hrs would be 15 games max and that's pushing it. 

You aren't fitting a 12 team comp in to 15 games never mind a 12 team comp and plate comp. 

We have a blueprint in the 9s WC which is spread over 2 days. You aren't spreading a 5hr game comp over 2 days.

And even if we did do it small and cheap which knowing RL is likely. Nobody is going to stand at headingley for 5hrs in January and no pitch in the country bar may be Cardiff with the roof is going to stand up to 5 hrs of RL on the middle of January  

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Every team having 3 group games is 6 hours. Minimum.

Quarter finals is another 4 games so that's 1hr 20 mins. So we are up to 7hr 20

Then semi-final and final is another hour and that's with teams playing back to back to back. So we are up to 8hr 20mins as the absolute minimum without any sort of plate comp and teams possibly playing 3games in 1hr 20mins.

I can't imagine The final being much good if one team is playing it's third game in an hour and 20minutes and the other could be playing it's 6th game in 6hrs. 

 

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1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

I have to disagree. I think a lot has happened and a lot has changed in the months since Elstone has come on bored. I'm not sure we could really expect much more to have happened. 

A lot has happened but is that down to Elstone or was it in the pipeline anyway. That is the majority SL clubs knew what they wanted and were going through the process of achieving it.

Too be honest I wouldn't have expected a great deal from Elstone as of yet. As he needed/needs to get his staffing in place and formulate his plans and priorities.

I'm looking forward to Elstone having a big impact going forward.

 

 

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2 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

10k is a much more achievable target.

But I disagree, I'm confident there is a market for things like this currently unserved by the game.

Seemingly so does a promoter.

A promoter wanted to host a New Zealand v England game in Denver too.


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2 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

I have to disagree. I think a lot has happened and a lot has changed in the months since Elstone has come on bored. I'm not sure we could really expect much more to have happened. 

But a fair few of the things you are attributing to Elstone have nothing to do with him.


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19 minutes ago, deluded pom? said:

But a fair few of the things you are attributing to Elstone have nothing to do with him.

I think there are two things really. 1) its a bit of a moot question as to whether some of the things were proposed Pre-Elston and were driven by the clubs because Elston was employed to Elston was employed to crystalise the things the owners wanted.

and 2) i wasnt intending to attribute everything to Elston. More the drive that is coming from SL and improvements there.

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1 hour ago, redjonn said:

A lot has happened but is that down to Elstone or was it in the pipeline anyway. That is the majority SL clubs knew what they wanted and were going through the process of achieving it.

Too be honest I wouldn't have expected a great deal from Elstone as of yet. As he needed/needs to get his staffing in place and formulate his plans and priorities.

I'm looking forward to Elstone having a big impact going forward.

As i said, its a bit of a moot question because Elstones job was to push through that pipeline.

 

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2 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

5hrs would be 15 games max and that's pushing it. 

You aren't fitting a 12 team comp in to 15 games never mind a 12 team comp and plate comp. 

We have a blueprint in the 9s WC which is spread over 2 days. You aren't spreading a 5hr game comp over 2 days.

And even if we did do it small and cheap which knowing RL is likely. Nobody is going to stand at headingley for 5hrs in January and no pitch in the country bar may be Cardiff with the roof is going to stand up to 5 hrs of RL on the middle of January  

Where does a WC type tournament come it? Who is talking about a 2 day event?  It might be, but it's not been said so.  It's being talked about as an early season  curtain raiser to the SL season. And as such it can be a simple enjoyable knock out for the aforesaid 12 SL teams.

Cardiff under the roof is quite plausible.

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32 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

Where does a WC type tournament come it? Who is talking about a 2 day event?  It might be, but it's not been said so.  It's being talked about as an early season  curtain raiser to the SL season. And as such it can be a simple enjoyable knock out for the aforesaid 12 SL teams.

Cardiff under the roof is quite plausible.

Because it doesnt really work any other way. Time says we have to have it over two days.

a simply knockout between 12 teams doesnt work. 12 to 6 to 3 teams and then what happens?

9s lasts 18 minutes. 2mins at half time, 5 mins between games (allowing an ad break) means each game takes 25mins. The very least amount of games we could have is 2 games and then a knock out. A comp with 12 teams needs a group then knock out comp. Which means 4 groups of 3. Which is 3 games per group. Which is 4 x 1hr 15mins. Which is 6hrs. Then skip a quarter final so go to a semi final and final which is another 1hr 15mins. so we are at 7hrs 15mins at the absolute very minimum. And that risks a team playing three games back to back and has no plate competition.  Thats 7hrs 15mins at the absolute very minimum with no breaks whatsoever, no injuries, no rest, no womens, no plate and 1 team playing the semi-final and final back to back.

7hrs 15mins in Cardiff in the middle of January is still going to be freezing cold. And is almost certainly far far too big.

Estadio Gran Canaria is 32k, its average jan temp is about 18C, and i can get a flight there on Wednesday for £46 and there are 900k people on the island. Or Tenerife has a 22k seater stadium, similar average temp and population, and flights on tuesday are £58.

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1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

Because it doesnt really work any other way. Time says we have to have it over two days.

a simply knockout between 12 teams doesnt work. 12 to 6 to 3 teams and then what happens?

9s lasts 18 minutes. 2mins at half time, 5 mins between games (allowing an ad break) means each game takes 25mins. The very least amount of games we could have is 2 games and then a knock out. A comp with 12 teams needs a group then knock out comp. Which means 4 groups of 3. Which is 3 games per group. Which is 4 x 1hr 15mins. Which is 6hrs. Then skip a quarter final so go to a semi final and final which is another 1hr 15mins. so we are at 7hrs 15mins at the absolute very minimum. And that risks a team playing three games back to back and has no plate competition.  Thats 7hrs 15mins at the absolute very minimum with no breaks whatsoever, no injuries, no rest, no womens, no plate and 1 team playing the semi-final and final back to back.

7hrs 15mins in Cardiff in the middle of January is still going to be freezing cold. And is almost certainly far far too big.

Estadio Gran Canaria is 32k, its average jan temp is about 18C, and i can get a flight there on Wednesday for £46 and there are 900k people on the island. Or Tenerife has a 22k seater stadium, similar average temp and population, and flights on tuesday are £58.

... to watch 9s. And it will be £58 back as well. (always assuming the ticket prices are not pushed up by your extra interest). Plus add your missus' tickets  in as well. 

Good luck to the promoter.  Where does the money come from for him?

There is no reason to have 2 days. No needed for pools. The game is 15 mins, with 1 min to change ends (IRLF rules) but rules are a moveable feast.

Take it abroad and persuade the SKY/BBC to give proper coverage if like.  Hmm... But I do not expect any great waves to be created.  Don't expect it to be a RL event for fans.

A simple enjoyabe festival to open the season would make sense. And then see how it goes. Remember it will be mainly young, naturally quick and 2nd string players.

 

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10 hours ago, Rupert Prince said:

... to watch 9s. And it will be £58 back as well. (always assuming the ticket prices are not pushed up by your extra interest). Plus add your missus' tickets  in as well. 

Good luck to the promoter.  Where does the money come from for him?

There is no reason to have 2 days. No needed for pools. The game is 15 mins, with 1 min to change ends (IRLF rules) but rules are a moveable feast.

Take it abroad and persuade the SKY/BBC to give proper coverage if like.  Hmm... But I do not expect any great waves to be created.  Don't expect it to be a RL event for fans.

A simple enjoyabe festival to open the season would make sense. And then see how it goes. Remember it will be mainly young, naturally quick and 2nd string players.

 

No it's £58 return for a week/weekend in the sun mid January with some friends.

It costs less to go to Tenerife for a week/weekend to watch 9s than to go to London for a weekend to watch baseball  

It's not a lot. RL fans arent poor, we just only cater to ones who are tight.

There is an absolute need for pools because a straight knock out comp can't happen with 12 teams. 

It's the epitome of RL that we would see two relatively successful examples and want to change the format to something smaller and cheaper in the strange expectation that people will want to go to headingley in mid January to stand in the freezing cold to watch their team for may be 15mins maybe be There for 5hrs and somehow this is more attractive to some people than a weekend in the sun.

Also the promoter will want two days to sell two tickets and two days worth of beer. 

Edited by scotchy1

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As others have said the only way to really expand and improve the profile of our game is through internationals.

My worry with the new setup and SL effectively running the show is that more and more focus will be on SL and less on the international calendar.........the RFL are not fit for purpose but i think i'd rather a new improved governing body running the sport placing the international game first than what we have now.

This structure is why union is miles in front of us despite the actual game being inferior IMO.

As for the OP it's all exciting news if it actually happens.........not so much if you're a RL fan who doesn't support a SL team though.


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On 1/17/2019 at 12:41 PM, scotchy1 said:

You don't need anywhere near 50k to go year 1. If you get 10k travelling to somewhere overseas that would be brilliant. 

10k people spending £500 Each is worth £5m. Plus sponsors, plus tv and there's a lot of money available

10k travelling is about 50-60 planes that cheap airlines use. Two issues not enough planes and massive hikes in flight prices.

Edited by Forever Trinity
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Annual 9s should be in the summer INSTEAD of Magic Weekend with big sponsor prize money to ensure best players. RL World Cup every TWO years (Soccer has World Cup or Euros or Qualifiers and this new UEFA thing EVERY YEAR, Union has two sets of internationals EVERY YEAR (as well as tours & their world cup).

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Just what is a marquee player? 

Are we really calling ex internationals who are several years past their last representation a marquee??? 

I understand the need to hype up signings but I think we are simply finding ways around the cap rather than signing genuinely world leading characters. 

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10 hours ago, Wollongong said:

Just what is a marquee player? 

Are we really calling ex internationals who are several years past their last representation a marquee??? 

I understand the need to hype up signings but I think we are simply finding ways around the cap rather than signing genuinely world leading characters. 

Of the marquee signings or planned who would you classify as genuine marquee and a past his best .

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Re: 9s

When I was a lad (a long while ago!) I played the other code. The team I played for regularly took part in 7s tournaments. These took place at clubs that had availability of  multiple pitches in close proximity, thus allowing a number of games to take place simultaneously and the competition was on a single day (albeit usually at the back end of the season so plenty of light and not too cold). The day usually included a main comp, plate comp and often a colts comp too and involved around 10 - 15 teams (excluding colts).

So I’m pretty sure that a one day comp could be held for 12 teams. However I think the point about the time of year is important as I certainly won’t be turning out for a whole day in Jan/Feb and probably not March either!

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26 minutes ago, TBone said:

Re: 9s

When I was a lad (a long while ago!) I played the other code. The team I played for regularly took part in 7s tournaments. These took place at clubs that had availability of  multiple pitches in close proximity, thus allowing a number of games to take place simultaneously and the competition was on a single day (albeit usually at the back end of the season so plenty of light and not too cold). The day usually included a main comp, plate comp and often a colts comp too and involved around 10 - 15 teams (excluding colts).

So I’m pretty sure that a one day comp could be held for 12 teams. However I think the point about the time of year is important as I certainly won’t be turning out for a whole day in Jan/Feb and probably not March either!

Is there a RL venue with multiple pitches?


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On 1/18/2019 at 1:48 PM, Forever Trinity said:

10k travelling is about 50-60 planes that cheap airlines use. Two issues not enough planes and massive hikes in flight prices.

4.1m people travel to Tenerife from outside Spain every year. Im comfortable that it has the infrastructure to handle another 10k

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1 hour ago, TBone said:

Re: 9s

When I was a lad (a long while ago!) I played the other code. The team I played for regularly took part in 7s tournaments. These took place at clubs that had availability of  multiple pitches in close proximity, thus allowing a number of games to take place simultaneously and the competition was on a single day (albeit usually at the back end of the season so plenty of light and not too cold). The day usually included a main comp, plate comp and often a colts comp too and involved around 10 - 15 teams (excluding colts).

So I’m pretty sure that a one day comp could be held for 12 teams. However I think the point about the time of year is important as I certainly won’t be turning out for a whole day in Jan/Feb and probably not March either!

There isnt a venue with multiple pitchs and tv is very unlikely to have matches being played at the same time. An amateur comp can certainly be played within a day, a professional, broadcast one can't the maths don't work, Im also not sure why we would want it to.

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