So, Liam Neeson....

[Dave T]

All a bit odd wasn't it?

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-47117177

 

[gingerjon]

All a bit Upminster.

Several stops past Barking.

[Bedford Roughyed]

5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

All a bit odd wasn't it?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-47117177

It’s not necessarily something I would generally recommend sharing at a press junket....

[Dave T]

4 minutes ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

It’s not necessarily something I would generally recommend sharing at a press junket....

It'll be interesting to see how this affects his career moving forward. It's extremely unpleasant all round to be honest.

[Maximus Decimus]

12 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It'll be interesting to see how this affects his career moving forward. It's extremely unpleasant all round to be honest.

The odd part of it is how he presents it as a way that he used to think that he is now embarrassed about. The problem is that the way he used to think is so out of normal bounds that simply saying he is embarrassed isn't really enough. 

 

[Dave T]

Just now, Maximus Decimus said:

The odd part of it is how he presents it as a way that he used to think that he is now embarrassed about. The problem is that the way he used to think is so out of normal bounds that simply saying he is embarrassed isn't really enough. 

 

yeah, tbh, if I used to feel like that I would probably keep quiet about it and be relieved that I am now less of a racist tool. 

I wonder what was going through his head on this one.

[Maximus Decimus]

13 minutes ago, Dave T said:

yeah, tbh, if I used to feel like that I would probably keep quiet about it and be relieved that I am now less of a racist tool. 

I wonder what was going through his head on this one.

Exactly. There can be redemption if for instance you used to be a neo-Nazi but have completely disowned that way of life and spent the rest of your life fighting against it.

In this example, it leaves a lot of unanswered questions. For instance, he must have had a significant problem with black people to react that way. Why would somebody from Ireland have such a problem with black people and can he really have completely changed from that?

 

[jacksy]

Why would any black person do? why not just the offender?

 

[Wiltshire Rhino]

2 hours ago, Dave T said:

 

I wonder what was going through his head on this one.

Retirement? 

[Bedford Roughyed]

 

[Dave T]

John Barnes defending him.

[Wiltshire Rhino]

I'm normally the first person to criticise "snowflakes" for being offended by someone else's words or opinions. However, in this case, he was plain stupid to say what he did. He's completely within his rights to say it but sometimes it's just best to keep your mouth shut! 

[Farmduck]

3 hours ago, Maximus Decimus said:

The odd part of it is how he presents it as a way that he used to think that he is now embarrassed about. The problem is that the way he used to think is so out of normal bounds that simply saying he is embarrassed isn't really enough. 

 

You don't think the circumstances were slightly abnormal? It's not like he said, "I got really bored once so I went out looking for a black man to kill."

 

2 hours ago, Maximus Decimus said:

Exactly. There can be redemption if for instance you used to be a neo-Nazi but have completely disowned that way of life and spent the rest of your life fighting against it.

In this example, it leaves a lot of unanswered questions. For instance, he must have had a significant problem with black people to react that way. Why would somebody from Ireland have such a problem with black people and can he really have completely changed from that?

 

Really? Maybe he just had a significant problem with rapists? or with people who harm his family?

For me, his only real crime here was that he admitted it. That level of anger is beyond rationality and he even says that he eventually understood the stupidity of what he was doing. What if she had been raped by a ginger and the story was about him roaming the streets looking for a ginger to kill? Would anyone even care?  No, the story would be about the irrationality of the anger/revenge cycle.

 

[Dave T]

Surprised it took so long for Gingers to get a mention.

I completely disagree with your post FD. Had he just been angry and wanted revenge against anyone, that would indeed have been a different story, but that isn't the story, he wanted to kill a black b*****d, as he called them.

John Barnes' point on this is interesting and worthy of discussion, the level of unconscious racism.

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, Farmduck said:

You don't think the circumstances were slightly abnormal? It's not like he said, "I got really bored once so I went out looking for a black man to kill."

 

Really? Maybe he just had a significant problem with rapists? or with people who harm his family?

For me, his only real crime here was that he admitted it. That level of anger is beyond rationality and he even says that he eventually understood the stupidity of what he was doing. What if she had been raped by a ginger and the story was about him roaming the streets looking for a ginger to kill? Would anyone even care?  No, the story would be about the irrationality of the anger/revenge cycle.

 

The first question he asked was whether she knew her attacker. The second was whether he was black.

If he'd asked a question about hair colour we'd be questioning his sanity. If he'd gone out hunting gingers as a result we'd see the inherent wrongness in the idea of picking out someone because they sort of look like someone who wronged someone who isn't you.

[Dave T]

His stance now is interesting. He is saying he is not racist, it wasn't a race thing and he would have done the same had it been a white person etc. 

He then goes on to say he "wanted his original comments to start a wider conversation about racism."

But if the point wasn't racist, then why would this provoke debate about racism?

This damage limitation exercise is a touch inconsistent.

[Farmduck]

45 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Surprised it took so long for Gingers to get a mention.

I completely disagree with your post FD. Had he just been angry and wanted revenge against anyone, that would indeed have been a different story, but that isn't the story, he wanted to kill a black b*****d, as he called them.

John Barnes' point on this is interesting and worthy of discussion, the level of unconscious racism.

Because the rapist was black. He didn't just pick black because he'd always wanted some excuse to kill a black person.

14 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

The first question he asked was whether she knew her attacker. The second was whether he was black.

If he'd asked a question about hair colour we'd be questioning his sanity. If he'd gone out hunting gingers as a result we'd see the inherent wrongness in the idea of picking out someone because they sort of look like someone who wronged someone who isn't you.

You're ignoring part of what I said:  "That level of anger is beyond rationality and he even says that he eventually understood the stupidity of what he was doing." You have the luxury of reviewing his statement from a position where you have no personal emotional investment.

If he'd been a black person telling this story about wanting to kill a white rapist, twitter would be full of virtue-signallers applauding his personal growth and congratulating him for refraining from exacting revenge on some innocent strangers until he achieved some self-awareness regarding his own motives. If the story was about some time when he was back in Northern Ireland when he'd wanted revenge against some random member of "the other lot" everybody would understand. We'd be hearing "They were terrible times, it's shocking how people reacted to things back then. It's good that he worked through it without killing anyone."

I don't see a story about race. I see a story about the human capacity for irrational behaviour.

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, Farmduck said:

If he'd been a black person telling this story about wanting to kill a white rapist, twitter would be full of virtue-signallers

The virtue signallers are already out in force. Brendan O'Neill of Spiked has already written his Saint Liam piece.

[Dave T]

7 minutes ago, Farmduck said:

Because the rapist was black. He didn't just pick black because he'd always wanted some excuse to kill a black person.

Why is that the only factor though? Why do you have to go and batter somebody else of the same race? Why is race the 'thing'?

[Dave T]

9 minutes ago, Farmduck said:

 

I don't see a story about race. I see a story about the human capacity for irrational behaviour.

Well, Liam Neeson is saying he wants this to prompt race discussions, so it was a race thing.

[Dave T]

All that said, there is a discussion that should be had here, rather than focusing too much on the individual. Because while his story may be extreme, he isn't on his own with unconscious racism, are we all affected, across the board?

We see a Muslim terrorist attack often dealt with attacks on the Muslim community (and other brown people) - we don't have too much of an issue branding those attackers racist, but want to protect poor Liam.

[Farmduck]

4 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Well, Liam Neeson is saying he wants this to prompt race discussions, so it was a race thing.

I only listened to the interview. Anything he says later is just an attempt at damage control.

So, how many black people did he actually kill? Or assault? Or even yell racists slurs at?

8 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Why is that the only factor though? Why do you have to go and batter somebody else of the same race? Why is race the 'thing'?

As I said to Ginger, the story, to me, is about the irrationality of human emotions. "Black" was the only thing he knew about the attacker.

[Bob8]

5 hours ago, Maximus Decimus said:

The odd part of it is how he presents it as a way that he used to think that he is now embarrassed about. The problem is that the way he used to think is so out of normal bounds that simply saying he is embarrassed isn't really enough. 

I do not think having racist, hateful or malicious thoughts about anyone is a problem. It is when we think the thoughts are profound realities and do not come from us. 

[Niels]

31 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

The virtue signallers are already out in force. Brendan O'Neill of Spiked has already written his Saint Liam piece.

There are a lot of virtue signallers tweeting how offended they are also. 

It was a dark hour for him and in fairness he wasn't looking to attack innocent people as such, he was waiting for someone to annoy him. Thus even in that dark place his social justice conscience was still active. 

Similar to farmduck I don't think it was racist. He has explained the point I was going to make so I won't repeat it. 

No one knows how they will feel in a similar situation so I think some of the criticism is unfair.

I am not convinced about people at the head of supposedly supportive organisations shouting racism. Having attended tribunals, I can assure you that just because someone is black, it doesnt mean they will be objective and call out their white management colleagues. It's usually the opposite. 

 

[Dave T]

If Neeson wanted to talk about revenge (and let's remember he was promoting a film), he could have told the same story without the black bast*** references. If race isn't the issue, just say you went into rough areas and wantwd to take it out on someone. That keeps it all about revenge and being in a bad space, but once he focused on race, called them black b******s then it is harder to see that as a revenge story.