Jonty58 Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 16 hours ago, Number 16 said: He did put in a shift, but I do think he's a 'marked' man and he attracts defenders. This works for his team Why is he "Marked" He has hardly had a good game in the NRL since he arrived. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Toppy Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 2 minutes ago, Jonty58 said: Why is he "Marked" He has hardly had a good game in the NRL since he arrived. I wouldn't say that, he's been the Dogs best forward since joining them (not saying much I know given how poor they've been), but within those games he's had a couple of outstanding performances, but he's also had a few completely anonymous ones as well. He was consistently one of Saints best for a few years but he seems not to be able to replicate that consistency in the NRL at the Dogs St.Helens - The Home of record breaking Rugby Champions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonty58 Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 (edited) On 02/04/2022 at 21:40, Dunbar said: Thanks for the advice. But I did watch the game. And funnily enough, the stats backed up my assessment of Young's performance. Funny how that works out. I once saw a game where a key player didn't do much at all but what he did do turned the game. Another example where a fringe player came on and turned a game like Ray Stone a couple of weeks ago for Parramatta. Stats are great but only valuable in some cases in the context of the outcome. If I was only guided by stats I would give this game away, its about people and personalities and game day performances. Edited April 5, 2022 by Jonty58 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonty58 Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 4 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said: I wouldn't say that, he's been the Dogs best forward since joining them (not saying much I know given how poor they've been), but within those games he's had a couple of outstanding performances, but he's also had a few completely anonymous ones as well. He was consistently one of Saints best for a few years but he seems not to be able to replicate that consistency in the NRL at the Dogs I hear what you are saying but not many Forwards are marked as game changers. Halves, Fullbacks, Hookers and possibly Centers get attention. I doubt many opposing Coaches have him "marked" as a game changer. Anonymous I would think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonty58 Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Jonty58 said: Edited April 5, 2022 by Jonty58 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 12 minutes ago, Jonty58 said: I once saw a game where a key player didn't do much at all but what he did do turned the game. Another example where a fringe player came on and turned a game like Ray Stone a couple of weeks ago for Parramatta. Stats are great but only valuable in some cases in the context of the outcome. If I was only guided by stats I would give this game away, its about people and personalities and game day performances. As I say, I thought Young did some things well in the game at the weekend and some things poorly. What he did well (carry the ball strongly) was backed up by his stats. Why would anyone only be guided by stats, where is the enjoyment in that? I am not guided by stats and I am not basing my assessment of his performance on the stats, I am basing my assessment on my viewing of the game and using the stats to back up my assessment. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonty58 Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 (edited) Davo, He was brought over as a Gun forward to lead the Canterbury pack, one of the worst teams in the NRL. He has been on the Bench used as a sub and hardly led from the front in a team that is rock bottom Why are you laughing? Edited April 5, 2022 by Jonty58 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonty58 Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Dunbar said: As I say, I thought Young did some things well in the game at the weekend and some things poorly. What he did well (carry the ball strongly) was backed up by his stats. Why would anyone only be guided by stats, where is the enjoyment in that? I am not guided by stats and I am not basing my assessment of his performance on the stats, I am basing my assessment on my viewing of the game and using the stats to back up my assessment. But you are a "Stats man" you quote them all the time to defend your opinion. Stats have their part to play but i have seen plenty of performances where the players "Stats" look ok but the player has contributed nothing to his teams result Edited April 5, 2022 by Jonty58 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davo5 Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 8 minutes ago, Jonty58 said: Davo, He was brought over as a Gun forward to lead the Canterbury pack, one of the worst teams in the NRL. He has been on the Bench used as a sub and hardly led from the front in a team that is rock bottom Why are you laughing? Because your really funny,especially the he,s hardly had a good game bit,yes he may not have hit the heights of thr Burgess’s,Graham but I’ve watched a lot of games where he’s been the Dogs best forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, Jonty58 said: But you are a "Stats man" you quote them all the time to defend your opinion. Stats have their part to play but i have seen plenty of performances where the players "Stats" look ok but the player has contributed nothing to his teams result Yes, you caught me, I am guilty of using evidence to back up my opinion. So, tell me, which part of my assessment of Young's performance do you disagree with and why? "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 5 hours ago, Dunbar said: I just don't get Stuart's thinking behind having Whitehead at 13. Yes, he wants Hudson Young and Corey Harawira-Naera in the side but Whitehead for me is not a middle forward. I am a big fan of his but his contribution in the middle is not where it needs to be and this puts extra pressure on the props. Whitehead is good with the ball in his hands but so are Yeo, Murray and Radley and they also offer more running as well... Whitehead is just not doing this. Will he get better, maybe. But I really think the Raiders would be a better outfit with Sutton at 13 and Whitehead back on the edge. Well indeed , it worked quite well . Now they’ve moved their best second row and pushed out their best lock forward . I’m delighted to see the back to the future 13 being lauded so much , but shoehorning Whitehead in there to a role he’s not best suited or accustomed to , and ditching what worked best for you personally in regards Sutton looks a bit wrongheaded and also stubborn to the point of self harm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graveyard johnny Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 8 hours ago, Davo5 said: Sticky does like to carry on a grudge. and so would I - players partners have no right to be mouthing off on social media and upsetting the applecart 1 see you later undertaker - in a while necrophile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunsletgreenandgold Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 10 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said: and so would I - players partners have no right to be mouthing off on social media and upsetting the applecart So you're advocating for holding a grudge over playing your best players...because his missus made a petty comment? All very amateur level ###### for tat nonsense if you ask me and Sticky is the worst of the lot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davo5 Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 21 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said: and so would I - players partners have no right to be mouthing off on social media and upsetting the applecart Yeah but you carry grudges against virtually every British player in the NRL so using yourself as a comparison doesn’t really work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graveyard johnny Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 1 hour ago, Davo5 said: Yeah but you carry grudges against virtually every British player in the NRL so using yourself as a comparison doesn’t really work. do I? really ? no wonder people fall out on these forums - sorry but wont be drawn - nice try see you later undertaker - in a while necrophile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graveyard johnny Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 1 hour ago, hunsletgreenandgold said: So you're advocating for holding a grudge over playing your best players...because his missus made a petty comment? All very amateur level ###### for tat nonsense if you ask me and Sticky is the worst of the lot. but hes the coach - hes the coach of a unit - the gaffer - the boss - the one responsible for gelling the team behind closed doors - its his call its his job - he has earned the right - suttons mrs? who? 1 see you later undertaker - in a while necrophile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Frisky Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, Jonty58 said: Why is he "Marked" He has hardly had a good game in the NRL since he arrived. Hes laughing (I would assume) because your trying to suggest that Tommo was the best prop in SL who is now struggling in the NRL... SL fans laugh because everyone knows they bought the wrong Saints Prop and paid him big money..... Hes marked because his English as the Aussies are usually scared of English forwards - Mozza, Ellis, Burgess Jammer etc - Tommo is playing well in a very poor team but as his English he always has to prove more than most others. Edited April 5, 2022 by Mr Frisky 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exiled Wiganer Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 On Sutton, anyone who is surprised that Stuart will bear a petty grudge has not being attention these last 20 years... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonty58 Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 13 hours ago, Mr Frisky said: Hes laughing (I would assume) because your trying to suggest that Tommo was the best prop in SL who is now struggling in the NRL... SL fans laugh because everyone knows they bought the wrong Saints Prop and paid him big money..... Hes marked because his English as the Aussies are usually scared of English forwards - Mozza, Ellis, Burgess Jammer etc - Tommo is playing well in a very poor team but as his English he always has to prove more than most others. You can see the fear in the Aussies eyes every time they play a Test match against us. No wonder they hardly ever win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrewxi Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 On 05/04/2022 at 09:56, Dunbar said: I just don't get Stuart's thinking behind having Whitehead at 13. Yes, he wants Hudson Young and Corey Harawira-Naera in the side but Whitehead for me is not a middle forward. I am a big fan of his but his contribution in the middle is not where it needs to be and this puts extra pressure on the props. Whitehead is good with the ball in his hands but so are Yeo, Murray and Radley and they also offer more running as well... Whitehead is just not doing this. Will he get better, maybe. But I really think the Raiders would be a better outfit with Sutton at 13 and Whitehead back on the edge. I think it is the current fascination with having a ball playing 13. I'm still confused about this. Surely there have always been loads of 13s with great hands, and lots that are more about bashing it up the middle. Ball playing 13s are not a ne thing (although maybe they were out of fashion for 5, 10 years) But the oz media seems fixated with the idea that every team now needs a 13 that can act as a half back, so maybe the raiders have been spooked into putting Whitehead there? Do you remember when they put him at 7 a few years ago for a match? He was dreadful. I'm with you; he's a class second row and always has been. Leave him there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 (edited) 59 minutes ago, thebrewxi said: I think it is the current fascination with having a ball playing 13. I'm still confused about this. Surely there have always been loads of 13s with great hands, and lots that are more about bashing it up the middle. Ball playing 13s are not a ne thing (although maybe they were out of fashion for 5, 10 years) But the oz media seems fixated with the idea that every team now needs a 13 that can act as a half back, so maybe the raiders have been spooked into putting Whitehead there? Do you remember when they put him at 7 a few years ago for a match? He was dreadful. I'm with you; he's a class second row and always has been. Leave him there. I’d agree with your point about the 13 . I like the loose forward who can hit it up and be a link player but it shouldn’t be rocket science doing that tbh . A 13 should be a bit of an all rounder . Edited April 6, 2022 by DavidM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost crayfish Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 The raiders have a rookie half now to go with their ball runners at 6 and 1, so it makes sense to me they'd want to have a ball playing 13 now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulga Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 Not NRL quite yet. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number 16 Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 23 hours ago, Jonty58 said: Why is he "Marked" He has hardly had a good game in the NRL since he arrived. Because he's a Pom. Because he's one of the 'dogs leading players. Check out his stats, they're reasonable given he's in a struggling team. He is ranked fifth for Canterbury in NRL Fantasy indicating he is one of their stronger performers. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowdesert Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 25 minutes ago, Pulga said: Not NRL quite yet. Thought he was still at London Broncos. Good luck to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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