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2 minutes ago, Programme Guy said:

Absolutely accurate.

There's an old guy on here always talking about Tommy 'Makemson' (I know) being "world class".  The guy has played 5 games for England, all against France or New Zealand. He has only played twice against NRL teams in his life: lost them both, and one was a 40 point hiding off Souths.

The rest of his career has been spent running rings round the likes of Hull KR and Huddersfield - players who wouldn't even be professionals in Australia. Yet despite somehow you get people who think this is enough to make the guy "world class". 😆

 

It works both ways.

As I say, Isaah Yeo can't be world class can he because he has never played an international game?

It's not the players fault they don't get a chance to play these games.

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4 minutes ago, Programme Guy said:

Absolutely accurate.

There's an old guy on here always talking about Tommy 'Makemson' (I know) being "world class".  The guy has played 5 games for England, all against France or New Zealand. He has only played twice against NRL teams in his life: lost them both, and one was a 40 point hiding off Souths.

The rest of his career has been spent running rings round the likes of Hull KR and Huddersfield - players who wouldn't even be professionals in Australia. Yet despite somehow you get people who think this is enough to make the guy "world class". 😆

 

How many golden boots has he won?

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22 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Isiah Yeo is the incumbent for Australia yet never played for them.

And yet I watch Cameron Murray and think he’s pretty much the complete player and one of the best in the world. Interesting what Big Mal does . Murray may play on an edge but I think it denudes him a little bit 

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27 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Exactly my point. I was being ironic.

Knowles is 25 and has played one test against France. I'm not sure where everyone is getting this world class assertion from? He hasn't really played against any of the World's top teams or countries.

He looks a brilliant prospect but is untested like his rivals.

However some on here seem to think Radley is a better player- not because of his international record of playing at the top level but because he plays NRL - the old argument on here wheeled out in just about every thread - if you play NRL you are just a better player than anyone who plays SL.

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1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

It works both ways.

As I say, Isaah Yeo can't be world class can he because he has never played an international game?

It's not the players fault they don't get a chance to play these games.

Not at all. The analogy isn't relevant here. 

Yeo is playing lock in the best league in the world (by far) and has played a number of Origin games, which are generally acknowledged to be a higher level than international League. (They have far more intensity, contain better players, stronger teams, and far bigger crowds. For example the 2022 AVERAGE was 64000 fans at Origin. England's last game was in front of 9000 and it looked like much less than that in reality). 

It's not a fair comparison. 

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9 minutes ago, Programme Guy said:

Not at all. The analogy isn't relevant here. 

Yeo is playing lock in the best league in the world (by far) and has played a number of Origin games, which are generally acknowledged to be a higher level than international League. (They have far more intensity, contain better players, stronger teams, and far bigger crowds. For example the 2022 AVERAGE was 64000 fans at Origin. England's last game was in front of 9000 and it looked like much less than that in reality). 

It's not a fair comparison. 

Origin used to be a better standard than international League.  It isn't any more.

However, that isn't really relevant to a 'Brit's in the NRL' thread.  If you want to start a new topic on this then I will happily chat about it but I will leave it here.

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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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11 minutes ago, Programme Guy said:

Not at all. The analogy isn't relevant here. 

Yeo is playing lock in the best league in the world (by far) and has played a number of Origin games, which are generally acknowledged to be a higher level than international League. (They have far more intensity, contain better players, stronger teams, and far bigger crowds. For example the 2022 AVERAGE was 64000 fans at Origin. England's last game was in front of 9000 and it looked like much less than that in reality). 

It's not a fair comparison. 

So great players only play in front of Big crowds.... ffs is that what we have come to?

By your reckoning all Sydney Roosters players must be awfull and none should get into a Leeds team that are currently average.

" Playing in the best league by far" - not sure how that's measured and what measurement "by far" actually is - I would say there are 2 top fully professional RL leagues in the world and currently the NRL is ahead of SL in both quality of players and money.

Some SL players would be top players in the NRL and some top NRL players would struggle in SL - that's always been the case.

Your hate of Makinson (you seem to call him Makemson) is fine but everyone who knows RL knows he is top class - that includes Wayne Bennett and the people who gave out the golden boot a few years ago.

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1 hour ago, Mr Frisky said:

However some on here seem to think Radley is a better player- not because of his international record of playing at the top level but because he plays NRL - the old argument on here wheeled out in just about every thread - if you play NRL you are just a better player than anyone who plays SL.

I completely agree but it works both ways if you are saying Radley is a squad player behind Knowles. For me, they are both excellent players and that 13 jersey is wide open. If Knowles had played 12 tests then it is his shirt to lose - but he hasn't so it's all on.

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3 minutes ago, Scubby said:

I completely agree but it works both ways if you are saying Radley is a squad player behind Knowles. For me, they are both excellent players and that 13 jersey is wide open. If Knowles had played 12 tests then it is his shirt to lose - but he hasn't so it's all on.

Yep, its up to the manager at the end of the day.

I'm sure he won't just pick players on the basis that NRL players are better than SL player like some on here seem to base everything on  - I'm sure he will look at individual players and their strengths and weaknesses. If Radley starts then someone like Knowles on the bench is a great option and shows our strength in depth - something England have better than any other team with the exception of NZ and Oz.

 

On an other note, hope Whitehead gets his form back.

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1 minute ago, Mr Frisky said:

Yep, its up to the manager at the end of the day.

I'm sure he won't just pick players on the basis that NRL players are better than SL player - I'm sure he will look at individual players and their strengths and weaknesses. If Radley starts then someone like Knowles on the bench is a great option and shows our strength in depth - something England have better than any other team with the exception of NZ and Oz.

Yep. Having two gun players vying for the pivotal position is a great option to have. In other positions we don't have that sadly - hence the calls to drag Roby away from his pipe and slippers.

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1 minute ago, Scubby said:

Yep. Having two gun players vying for the pivotal position is a great option to have. In other positions we don't have that sadly - hence the calls to drag Roby away from his pipe and slippers.

Probably the biggest decision the manager could make - persuade him to carry on.

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16 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Yep. Having two gun players vying for the pivotal position is a great option to have. In other positions we don't have that sadly - hence the calls to drag Roby away from his pipe and slippers.

 

14 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

Probably the biggest decision the manager could make - persuade him to carry on.

The thing about Roby is that he would be a dead cert to be picked if available.  And what a way to round off a career to play in the biggest and best ever world cup on home soil.

And yet it doesn't look like he is prepared to extent his career by 6 weeks to do it.  

Is it because he doesn't think he can perform at the standard he thinks is needed or is it because he doesn't think England have a shot at winning cause its a big thing to not play in?

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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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2 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

or is it because he doesn't think England have a shot at winning

The most "Rugby League Fan" interpretation imaginable. :kolobok_biggrin:

"We are easily breakable, by illness or falling, or a million other ways of leaving this earthly life. We are just so much mashed potato."  Don Estelle

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1 minute ago, Futtocks said:

The most "Rugby League Fan" interpretation imaginable. :kolobok_biggrin:

Maybe.  But I am trying to think why a player would not want to round off his career with a shot at winning a world cup on home soil.  It could be a fairytale ending to a wonderful career.

I just want him to play so much! (I sound like my 9 year old daughter!)

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7 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Maybe.  But I am trying to think why a player would not want to round off his career with a shot at winning a world cup on home soil.  It could be a fairytale ending to a wonderful career.

I just want him to play so much! (I sound like my 9 year old daughter!)

Maybe he is thinking he could go around for Saints again in 2023, albeit in a reduced role, and feels he couldn't do both.

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2 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Maybe he is thinking he could go around for Saints again in 2023, albeit in a reduced role, and feels he couldn't do both.

Well, he shouldn't think that!

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1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

Origin used to be a better standard than international League.  It isn't any more.

However, that isn't really relevant to a 'Brit's in the NRL' thread.  If you want to start a new topic on this then I will happily chat about it but I will leave it here.

All about opinions. This year's Origin was miles ahead of that England v The Rest match IMO. If you think the stuff on show at Warrington was better - fair enough - I'll respect your opinion. Can't even remotely agree with it though. 👍🏼

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15 minutes ago, Programme Guy said:

All about opinions. This year's Origin was miles ahead of that England v The Rest match IMO. If you think the stuff on show at Warrington was better - fair enough - I'll respect your opinion. Can't even remotely agree with it though. 👍🏼

I wasn't really thinking of the England game... more the New Zealand vs. Tonga game.

For a long time the NSW and Queensland Origin teams would probably have been ranked 1 and 2 in the world if they were national sides but now, with so many of the games best players Kiwis or PI representatives the balance is swing back to internationals being the top tier of the game again.

I love SOO for what it is but the sport is massively better off with internationals being the top tier and so I am happy with this transition. 

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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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3 hours ago, Dunbar said:

I wasn't really thinking of the England game... more the New Zealand vs. Tonga game.

For a long time the NSW and Queensland Origin teams would probably have been ranked 1 and 2 in the world if they were national sides but now, with so many of the games best players Kiwis or PI representatives the balance is swing back to internationals being the top tier of the game again.

I love SOO for what it is but the sport is massively better off with internationals being the top tier and so I am happy with this transition. 

I would agree that internationals should be the top tier. Origin 3 this year though, was a return to the mid 90s in terms of intensity. The line speed in the closing stages of the game (for example) was insane. I would say they'd have beaten the Kiwis, and put 60 or 70 on that Exiles team that played England. 

I don't think there has been a transition (yet). Origin last year was poor, but this year it stepped up with a vengeance. 

I fully agree though that the Pasifika influence at the élite end of the game is now massive, which should see the international game overtaking Origin in the coming seasons. 

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6 hours ago, Dunbar said:

It works both ways.

As I say, Isaah Yeo can't be world class can he because he has never played an international game?

It's not the players fault they don't get a chance to play these games.

Dunbar, as rugby league only has two legitimate professional leagues, do you really need to play international rugby league to be classified as “world class” (whatever that term actually means)?

For instance, a prime Ben Barba when he won the Dally M - would anyone argue he wasn’t world class at the time even though he never made the Australian or even the Queensland team? 

I think we know who the best players in the world are without internationals especially in the NRL. I concede that SL is a little harder to judge due to the lower overall standards so internationals are useful for the SL side of the player pool.

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9 hours ago, Programme Guy said:

Origin 3 this year though, was a return to the mid 90s in terms of intensity.

It really was , and more with modern conditioning and fitness . As intense as anything I’ve seen .

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8 hours ago, AB90 said:

Dunbar, as rugby league only has two legitimate professional leagues, do you really need to play international rugby league to be classified as “world class” (whatever that term actually means)?

For instance, a prime Ben Barba when he won the Dally M - would anyone argue he wasn’t world class at the time even though he never made the Australian or even the Queensland team? 

I think we know who the best players in the world are without internationals especially in the NRL. I concede that SL is a little harder to judge due to the lower overall standards so internationals are useful for the SL side of the player pool.

Agree with you here . You can take a literal view of world equating it to internationals , but if you’re a consistent stand out putting a stamp on the best comp in the world with the best standard and talent ( from all nations ) you’re ‘ world class ‘ .

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9 hours ago, AB90 said:

Dunbar, as rugby league only has two legitimate professional leagues, do you really need to play international rugby league to be classified as “world class” (whatever that term actually means)?

For instance, a prime Ben Barba when he won the Dally M - would anyone argue he wasn’t world class at the time even though he never made the Australian or even the Queensland team? 

I think we know who the best players in the world are without internationals especially in the NRL. I concede that SL is a little harder to judge due to the lower overall standards so internationals are useful for the SL side of the player pool.

I do agree.  I was just responding to a post that says a Super League player can't be world class.

There are fewer world class players in Super League than the NRL but they are there.

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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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18 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

There are fewer world class players in Super League than the NRL but they are there.

I was going to add exactly this , and i think we’ll see that at the World Cup

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