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Brits in the NRL


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On 28/09/2020 at 10:37, ghost crayfish said:

Agree with this. I think it's taken a bit of time for a lot of English players to make the adjustment - and I include Adrian Morley and Sam Burgess in this - to the consistent demands of the NRL compared to superleague. It's not that the biggest players are bigger or the best teams are much better, it's that more players are big, and more teams are good. It's just a bit more relentless. The only Englishmen who have adapted immediately have been the Canberra guys, which suggests they've been very well coached and prepared. Thompson will be fine, just like Morley was - but it's worth remembering that Morley took a while to really hit his straps.

Burgess was a standout in his first season,the only thing Morley had to adjust to was the refs and I don’t recall Ellis & Graham needing a season of adjustment.

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24 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

Burgess was a standout in his first season,the only thing Morley had to adjust to was the refs and I don’t recall Ellis & Graham needing a season of adjustment.

It was a very strange remark. Flanagan is another who needed no adjustment 

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3 hours ago, Davo5 said:

Burgess was a standout in his first season,the only thing Morley had to adjust to was the refs and I don’t recall Ellis & Graham needing a season of adjustment.

Indeed.  Gareth Ellis was the Wests player of the year in his first two seasons in the NRL (2009 & 2010) while James Graham played 26 games in his first season with the Bulldogs in the year they made a run to the Grand Final.

Neither struggled to adjust to the NRL.   

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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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6 hours ago, DavidM said:

Williams was very good , two tries and a hand in two or three more . Great relationship he has with Wighton .  Whitehead made a couple of uncharacteristic errors but he’s always in the action and got his try . Bateman was quiet by his standards but efficient .  What a difference having crowds makes as well to games . I still don’t know why we can do all kinds of things inside but we can’t have a percentage of socially distant crowds at sports outside here . Seems quite irrational and it’ll keep some sports afloat 

The little kick to set up one of the tries for Wighton was a beauty.

On the crowds point, totally agree. Let’s say allow 10% of capacity. Having them spread out would work. Think the sporting bodies are going to have to push the government on this.

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10 hours ago, DavidM said:

Williams was very good , two tries and a hand in two or three more . Great relationship he has with Wighton .  Whitehead made a couple of uncharacteristic errors but he’s always in the action and got his try . Bateman was quiet by his standards but efficient .  What a difference having crowds makes as well to games . I still don’t know why we can do all kinds of things inside but we can’t have a percentage of socially distant crowds at sports outside here . Seems quite irrational and it’ll keep some sports afloat 

We had just under 10,000 at the game last night in Canberra.

They spread us evenly around the ground except for the bays near the players’ tunnel that are kept empty.

Because of the way we were spread out it felt more crowded than a regular 10k crowd.

It was so good to get to a live game with an excitable crowd.

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Tom Burgess was strong again for the Rabbitohs this morning.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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3 hours ago, Copa said:

Williams was great tonight!

He was superb. When the Roosters looked like they were dragging themselves back into the game it was the reintroduction of Papalii and Tapine and George Williams short kicking game that put them on the back foot again and got the Raiders over the line.

Williams had the best short kicking game in Super League and now he is close to if not the best in the NRL.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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3 hours ago, barnyia said:

The way he looked to the corner made tedesco set off early and run past the ball , it was a lucky bounce but he played it well to get the luck 

I noticed that too. The bounce was favourable but Tedesco couldn't adjust because Williams sent him running to the corner flag and then put it off the side of his boot

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7 minutes ago, JM2010 said:

I noticed that too. The bounce was favourable but Tedesco couldn't adjust because Williams sent him running to the corner flag and then put it off the side of his boot

That was a cunning plan ...

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Williams will get better with more games.  With forwards its just adjusting to plays and the greater weekly physical intensity. For a halfback its far harder, but Williams is doing better than I expected at this stage.  Quite probably because his coach is a former halfback who also understands the need to work on a halfback's game. 

 

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To be fair to Thompson, coming over mid season would be harder than it was for Ellis/Morley who had an off season before playing.  One thing was clear with both Morley and Ellis was that they absolutely loved the tough stuff.   For forwards that seems to be the key - Mike Cooper did very well at a pretty average St George team as well.

Had the Hardaker of 2015 come over and had a full off-season I genuinely think he would have been a very good NRL player. As it was he wasn't that fit and hadn't pushed himself all season at Leeds.  The fact that he thought he went OK speaks volumes as well.  One thing that stood out to commentators here was how skinny Hardaker was - in SL he was a powerful player but a number of commentators thought he should be anything up to 10 kg (stone and a half) heavier.  Again, a pre-season would have helped there. 

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12 minutes ago, BrisbaneRhino said:

but Williams is doing better than I expected at this stage.  Quite probably because his coach is a former halfback who also understands the need to work on a halfback's game. 

 

Which specific areas of Williams game do you think Ricky Stuart has improved, what is he doing (or doing better) for the Raiders that he didn't do for Wigan?

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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44 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Which specific areas of Williams game do you think Ricky Stuart has improved, what is he doing (or doing better) for the Raiders that he didn't do for Wigan?

I think his long kicking game has improved since being at Canberra 

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I thought Williams was outstanding . In such a massive , pressurised game he was so calm , controlled  and full of quality . His work off the boot and link play were top notch . He organised the Raiders and led them around the park . His options and execution were great 

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I'd say it was fairly obvious that Williams' game is better now than when he arrived.  He is playing with a lot more control and also getting involved more.  Like a lot of British halfbacks he has some basic skills, but is now executing them far more consistently.  You can't afford flaky kicks in the NRL, or passes to nobody.  Stuart was one of the smartest halfbacks of his era - I'd be amazed if any halfback who joined the Raiders and wanted to learn wouldn't get better working with him.

Does anyone seriously not think he's a better player now?

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1 hour ago, BrisbaneRhino said:

I'd say it was fairly obvious that Williams' game is better now than when he arrived.  He is playing with a lot more control and also getting involved more.  Like a lot of British halfbacks he has some basic skills, but is now executing them far more consistently.  You can't afford flaky kicks in the NRL, or passes to nobody.  Stuart was one of the smartest halfbacks of his era - I'd be amazed if any halfback who joined the Raiders and wanted to learn wouldn't get better working with him.

Does anyone seriously not think he's a better player now?

He's been class for years now. I think you're confusing with getting up to speed with the NRL style of play and his ability.

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4 hours ago, BrisbaneRhino said:

I'd say it was fairly obvious that Williams' game is better now than when he arrived.  He is playing with a lot more control and also getting involved more.  Like a lot of British halfbacks he has some basic skills, but is now executing them far more consistently.  You can't afford flaky kicks in the NRL, or passes to nobody.  Stuart was one of the smartest halfbacks of his era - I'd be amazed if any halfback who joined the Raiders and wanted to learn wouldn't get better working with him.

Does anyone seriously not think he's a better player now?

No, I do not agree that Williams is better than when he arrived.

WIlliams has been consistently good all season.  He was praised after his NRL debut in the round 1 game against the Gold Coast and in round 3 he was man of the match when the Raiders turned over the Storm 22-6 away from home. 

In his first 10 games this year he made more kick metres, had more try assists, more linebreaks, more tackle breaks, more receipts and more run metres than in his last 10 games.

He has not improved throughout the year which is what you would expect if Stuart was developing him as a player and improving on these 'basic skills' as you say.

The reason why Williams has been good all year is that he arrived in the NRL as a quality player and he has proved it.

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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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12 hours ago, Pulga said:

i imagine he is desperate still to prove himself in the nrl even if its only for one season- gold coast? bulldogs? dragons? some one give him a gig 

see you later undertaker - in a while necrophile 

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21 hours ago, graveyard johnny said:

i imagine he is desperate still to prove himself in the nrl even if its only for one season- gold coast? bulldogs? dragons? some one give him a gig 

I'd like him to get a decent, uninjured run at an NRL side, just to prove himself to everyone.

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Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

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