Tyrone Shoelaces Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 9 minutes ago, johnmatrix said: What do they stand for peace live and understanding just like the rest? People who stand in the middle of the road get knocked down. Don't try that at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 4 hours ago, DavidM said: You mean even more weak and broken . Probably most of us haven’t known a more pathetic political situation or ineffective political class Quite the Wierdest time ever in my 40 years of being able to vote I've never voted for anybody but labour But wouldnt vote for Corbyn ever , he;s an incompetant idiot The far right of the tories actually scare me that one of them might actually become the next PM Mrs May has picked up the baton dropped by the buffoon Cameron and done her level best to deliver what the majority voted for , I have the utmost respect for the way she has resiliently stuck to the job , probably the most difficult outside wartime I voted leave , but if i was to choose tommorrow who I would vote for , it would be for the 11 MPs who all wanted [ and still do ] us to remain and have for various reasons [ although I suspect i've outlined some above ] have chosen to potentially end their political careers to try to bring us back to the centre , where we should be Strange times indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedford Roughyed Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 14 minutes ago, Evil Homer said: Her constituents want her gone, and rightly so. Some members of her CLP want her gone. It's not the same as her constituents. Any polling from the ward? With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrone Shoelaces Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 11 minutes ago, GUBRATS said: Quite the Wierdest time ever in my 40 years of being able to vote I've never voted for anybody but labour But wouldnt vote for Corbyn ever , he;s an incompetant idiot The far right of the tories actually scare me that one of them might actually become the next PM Mrs May has picked up the baton dropped by the buffoon Cameron and done her level best to deliver what the majority voted for , I have the utmost respect for the way she has resiliently stuck to the job , probably the most difficult outside wartime I voted leave , but if i was to choose tommorrow who I would vote for , it would be for the 11 MPs who all wanted [ and still do ] us to remain and have for various reasons [ although I suspect i've outlined some above ] have chosen to potentially end their political careers to try to bring us back to the centre , where we should be Strange times indeed " Incompetant . " , yeah lots of people get caught out by that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckn Posted February 20, 2019 Author Share Posted February 20, 2019 A really interesting analysis of polling data with the new lot involved. Big swings to “don’t know” from the two main parties but look at the swing from Lib Dems to the new party. "When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidingPie Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 It kind of reinforces my opinion that, as a nation we are generally about the centre just edging to the centre right politically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckn Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 2 hours ago, RidingPie said: It kind of reinforces my opinion that, as a nation we are generally about the centre just edging to the centre right politically. We’re a very small-c conservative nation, with the traditional working class areas further down that line than the wealthier areas. Law & order, respect, values-driven achievement, pride in earning a living and so on. It’s where there’s always been a focus for me with the two main parties, and to be fair the main three parties. The Tories used to be almost wholly economy driven, Labour were a worker’s party and the Liberals/SDP/Lib Dems filled the gaps for the politically homeless. If you were to put that on an old-fashioned left-right political scale, that’d have the Tories out right, and with no criticism of that, Labour dead centre but edging right and Lib Dems taking the centre-left slot Some people will go “and there he goes again” with this but the closest I’ve seen to getting that is Blair’s 1997-2005 governments. They targeted the traditional worker and significantly improved their lot (centre-right), they targeted the have-nots and significantly improved their lot (left to centre-left), they significantly increased the police numbers (centre-right) and so on, targeting that centre-left to centre-right demographic that is really the small-c conservative heart of the nation. And it worked, that’s why they were so successful. The current Labour Party just can’t see that for their red flag haze and whatever they’re smoking. They’ve pitched themselves to the far left and can’t work out why that’s not working. They’re only getting away with it because they’ve never had to actually deliver a policy, or even provide solid details on their core ones. Even Brexit, they dare not set a policy of excluding some options because they’d lose voters, just think what they’d have to do if it came to funding all that stuff they want to do. Would Joe Bloggs in Basildon (a core swing town) really be happy to vote to see his taxes go up to help people he doesn’t know? Corbyn simply cannot understand that you have to sell the “what’s in it for me?” to everyone, not just his fluffers. It’s the same with the Tories. They’ve moved to a hard-right position. It’s acceptable to many working class folk to vote for the Tories because they believe that fixing the economy will help everyone, that’s a good position to take and perfectly acceptable, albeit one I refuse to accept having understood that trickle-down economics does not work. That’s a good centre-right to right position. Instead, the current ERG and frothy-xenophobes who really run the party (including the DUP in both groups) have dragged the party waaay off-line. It’s no longer about fixing the economy for EVERYONE, it’s fixing the economy for them and their mates and damn the rest. Heidi Allen is a rock-solid centre-right small-c Conservative of the John Major mould. For her to be alienated out of her party should be ringing all sorts of alarm bells in the minds of all sensible Tories. Instead, she’s being harassed and bullied by the frothy majority who should be excised from the party. Chris Leslie is a rock-solid centre-left small-c conservative Labourite of the John Smith mould. For him to be alienated out of his party should be ringing all sorts of alarm bells in the minds of all sensible Labour voters. Instead, he’s being harassed and bullied by the frothy minority who should be excised from the party. And, the Lib Dems, who knows what they stand for these days. Under Charlie Kennedy, the party occupied a healthy section of the country that wanted a kinder life with less focus on it being about WORK or MONEY. An idealists’ party and one that was a very effective counter-check to the other two, keeping them honest. The Coalition sank that with their support for cruel policies, supporting degradation to working conditions and sucking money out of the country, completely against everything that they stand for as a group of values. While Cable and co are still in their seats, that’ll never change. That’s why the new group has my imagination caught. I hope its given the chance to succeed to reset some of the views above and excise the vile excesses of the main parties. If the main parties and their fluffers get their way, we’ll see them hounded out of Parliament before having any chance to get set up then it’ll be back to square one where we’ll have increasingly vile Tories in power until the 2030s at the earliest. If you’re a Tory and you’re celebrating that then you, unfortunately have either have your blinkers on too tight or you’re part of the problem. If you’re a Labour supporter and are happy to get rid of the “whiners” then, you are part of the problem, no need for the blinkers point. And there goes my morning cuppa’s reading time that I usually use for the newspapers! "When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Agree with the above remarks . We are generally , as elections largely show a centrist country tilting one way or the other . And looking at the direction of travel and forces at play in both main parties I’d say thank god we are . I feel they are drifting away from most of us , not the other way . Whether the reactions of these moderate MPs is right or wrong or leads to anything that’s seismic in political life we’ll see . But it’s sad in itself that you feel hounded , unwelcome , powerless enough , and get called names and ‘ good riddance ‘ purely for holding what are mainstream views - and it speaks volumes about the tories and labour , and it’s not a good listen . Both at a very low ebb - maybe it is time for the old monopoly to shatter , they’re certainly not helping themselves and their leadership is terrible. In fact leadership is an oxymoron . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff9of13 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 23 minutes ago, ckn said: <snip> An excellent appraisal of the current, woeful, state of things. The problem with chasing ideology either left or right is that pragmatic, practical politics that help improve lives in little ways gets completely lost in that ideological fog. "it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Sadler Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 18 hours ago, JonM said: If it helps, I can go back and edit my post to include ckn's extra 4 words. I'm happy to appear cleverer and funnier than I actually am in order to avoid a problem I'm sure you would and it's very kind of you. But we do have a rule on here that we can use quotes without editing them. And when you think about it, that's an important rule. If someone were to edit your quote maliciously to make it look as though you were saying the opposite of what you intended it could have serious consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidingPie Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 I think one of the things I've like about the new group is that they are at least sounding honest. So many politicians on both sides just tow the party line and you're not really sure what -they themselves- stand for. or believe Regardless of whether it works in the long or short run its good to see politicians when they speak seeming genuine. I'd also say so far that both factions that left looked relieved to have done so. You can tell it was a hard decision for them but they've been driven to it. If those polling numbers posted earlier reach 20% I think we could see a few more go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Dominic Grieve saying he’ll fight from within the party and he knew nothing about his friends leaving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrone Shoelaces Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 25 minutes ago, DavidM said: Agree with the above remarks . We are generally , as elections largely show a centrist country tilting one way or the other . And looking at the direction of travel and forces at play in both main parties I’d say thank god we are . I feel they are drifting away from most of us , not the other way . Whether the reactions of these moderate MPs is right or wrong or leads to anything that’s seismic in political life we’ll see . But it’s sad in itself that you feel hounded , unwelcome , powerless enough , and get called names and ‘ good riddance ‘ purely for holding what are mainstream views - and it speaks volumes about the tories and labour , and it’s not a good listen . Both at a very low ebb - maybe it is time for the old monopoly to shatter , they’re certainly not helping themselves and their leadership is terrible. In fact leadership is an oxymoron . It's not just about " holding mainstream views ", obviously there's nothing wrong that. It's when certain MP's are actively sabotaging the efforts of the party. When I heard one of the Labour women MP's say she was telling voters in her constituency - " You can vote for me love, it's alright, Labour won't get in and you won't have Corbyn as Prime Minister " . I thought " You should be in another party more to your liking ". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidingPie Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said: It's not just about " holding mainstream views ", obviously there's nothing wrong that. It's when certain MP's are actively sabotaging the efforts of the party. When I heard one of the Labour women MP's say she was telling voters in her constituency - " You can vote for me love, it's alright, Labour won't get in and you won't have Corbyn as Prime Minister " . I thought " You should be in another party more to your liking ". well I guess she is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrone Shoelaces Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, RidingPie said: well I guess she is now. Yep and before long in the dust bin of history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidingPie Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said: Yep and before long in the dust bin of history. You're probably right but I guess we'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 7 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said: It's when certain MP's are actively sabotaging the efforts of the party. Like Jeremy Corbyn for years n years of new labour . He really can’t lecture anyone on loyalty . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Sadler Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 One slightly curious thing about Heidi Allen is that she appears to be the only MP who doesn't reveal details about where she went to school. I took an interest in this because her CV does say she grew up in Notton, which is a very pleasant village near Wakefield, so I was curious about whether she attended the same school as my kids. But she seems to have blanked all information about which school she attended. It seems a little odd to do that when most other MPs are only too happy to give out that information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidingPie Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Anna Sourby being quite brave on LBC at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckn Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 7 minutes ago, RidingPie said: Anna Sourby being quite brave on LBC at the moment. She threw the hard question and is really going up in my opinion by the caller! I wasn't a fan of hers before, gob on a stick, but this is good stuff. "When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxford Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 16 hours ago, Clogiron said: "Since a politician never believes what he says, (s)he is quite surprised to be taken at his/her word." DeGaule 2 warning points Non-Political Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidingPie Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, ckn said: She threw the hard question and is really going up in my opinion by the caller! I wasn't a fan of hers before, gob on a stick, but this is good stuff. She's coming across very well. One thing about the new party is it has some people in it who are very good at talking to the public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazzzz65 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 12 hours ago, Evil Homer said: Berger should be the first to hold a by-election as she was only saved from deselection last week by a spectacularly misplaced intervention by Tom Watson. Her constituents want her gone, and rightly so. A very small number of her constituents wanted a vote to deselect her. The vote didn't take place. She may have not been deselected had a vote taken place. There is nothing to suggest that the vast majority of the Liverpool Wavertree voters 'wanted her gone'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 IMO I completely understand where these MPs are coming from, particularly those in labour highlighting the anti-Semitism around the party. This is from a Leave supporting Labour member by the way. The issue I have with the group in general is that they should have done this before the GE in 2017. Labour's problems are well documented but splits are on a variety of lines rather than the tories who seem mostly to be split on just Brexit. Anyone who thinks these MPs opinions on Brexit, the Left of the Labour Party, the ERG etc have changed in the past 18 months is being a little disingenuous imo. Integrity would have meant that as an MP I could not have stood on the two parties manifestoes' at the last election and would have stood independently or for the Lib Dems, who for all they're flaws, are at least open in their intention to stop Brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 10 minutes ago, RidingPie said: She's coming across very well. One thing about the new party is it has some people in it who are very good at talking to the public. Yes this was mentioned on the news yesterday . Some good communicators Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.