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Widnes problems


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3 hours ago, doc said:

 

I hope Widnes can be sorted soon. Just been looking at the nearest clubs i could support. Turns out to be either Coventry or North Wales!??

Really fed up!

A compete new club.... with sufficient funding .... ought to be able to start up at the appropriate level.  Surely, can't it?   The thing being "the appropriate level".

What then is important is that the fans support it.  Then it can grow. Does the name matter?  Could it be built around an existing amateur team? If "Widnes Vikings" dies, then fresh investors can still create a new club.  Surely?

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5 hours ago, The Parksider said:

And it's a very poor one as well. Rugby league has NEVER had a closed attitude to expansion and you choose to ignore 60 new clubs from places all over that have been allowed into the game over the years. For sure a number of hair brained schemes have been refused but Southend Invicta managed to get a go as did Trafford Borough who thought there was a market for a Manchester team oblivious to there already being two long established clubs serving the area. of course Liverpool have had three shots at it with the original club, then Liverpool Stanley/City and Huyton. Do you think Koukash has "anything new"

As for funding you talk about the "ability to correctly fund things" as though the people who run the game and the people at clubs actually have the money to create successful new teams but are somehow failing to put it in the right places. For sure where you appear to hail from Richard Branson sank enough into London to try to make it work, but it just didn't and he said just what a monumental and highly expensive task it was to try to add professional RL clubs to the game in places Soccer and Union dominate.

so please do continue with your opinion, but maybe back it with some reality and some facts?

1. We both were around in 1970/1/2 when the game was at it's lowest ebb and the amateur game was actually dying. BARLA and David Oxley did sterling work to improve matters and the Pay TV era has also enabled us to professionalise and we are still going after 122 years, so i would go steady here. I would not use the drop in kids playing RL as any proof of dying because that drop is mirrored in Union and soccer and they cannot be called "dying". 

2. I do agree there's an element of "keeping things alive" though hence it is so important that Widnes find a wealthy backer to get the club back on track and retain Widnes as an RL town. It has an established set up for playing the game, and at their best they were (as were Bulls) as impressive a side  as anyone and  a great TV watch.

If we want to kill the game we can replace clubs like Bulls and Widnes with Honolulu and Timbuktoo on a progressive basis. If that's bit ambitious then we can always start with Manchester and Liverpool and go onto Belgrade, Copenhagen New York and Barcelona, where people claim "growth awaits" before we then actually go into Africa and west of America....

I'll get mi flat cap!! see you down the Junction.....

I'm not really qualified to speak about the 2018 season, I missed most of it with a broken ankle.  Which enabled me to watch quite a lot of club Union on TV.  They have a good game now.  Watched by decent crowds.

We can't even expand to Sheffield.  they've been there for 35 or so years.  At the 2017 Sheffield "home" fixture v Fev at Belle Vue, you could count the Sheffield supporters on the fingers of both hands.

As for Fev I fear the worst. The crowds are declining, even with some moderately successful seasons.  The interest in Fev was largely killed by the iniquitous licencing.  Can't see it ever coming back to what it was before SL.  You look at the crowds at SL sides other than the "usual suspects" and they're pathetic.  Unless someone, (I don't know who) does something (I don't know what) the game is finished in this country.

BTW wasn't it you who insisted promoted clubs should have certain ground standards?  If this is the case what the hell are London doing in SL?

“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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On 2/10/2019 at 9:06 AM, The Parksider said:

1. That is so NOT TRUE. If Liverpool take 25 players from the professional player pool of about 220 English lads it depletes other clubs.

2. That is so NOT TRUE. Storms success was hundreds of ££Millions of investment in a country they had access to a lot more quality players than we have here, and they were not up against Liverpool and Everton FC.

For goodness sake man Sheffield is a strong soccer town with two famous clubs you tell me where Sheffield Eagles have got in the nigh on 40 years they have been in existence?

This is not a term I recognise as applying to thousands of businesses and I know many businesses. For most businesses it's a matter of growing in the first place then the priority is holding onto growth and their place in the market against strong competition. No business analyst faced with a successful local business that can keep it's quality staff and trade at least break even to it's traditional market is going to chuck big money at expansion into other markets, John, you can do better than just dredging up any old slogan.

If we expand Superleague by 2 places we need 50 quality RL players to do that

If we expand Superleague by 4 places we need 100 quality RL players to to that.

Once again these players do not grow on trees, and the player pool has declined somewhat if you remember the discussion back in 2014 whether we had enough players for 10 or 12 clubs.

With deepest respect Gubrats your sloganising like John M. Repeating a slogan or a saying is not a business plan is it Guys????? I can say 12 birds in the hand are worth more that 20 in the bush"

You probably agree with me and most SL chairmen we only have the players for 12 SL clubs. That already excludes Bradford and Widnes who I have seen win everything and who run academies with both clubs developing many internationals over the years.

To give SL places to phoney clubs who have no player player development infrastructure let alone professional level players development, and lets face it never will whether it's Belgrade (they operate at a level below Millom) Barcelona, Copenhagen or New York is to remove more real SL clubs that actually are a credit to the game here, with long histories and an ability to develop players.

And these clubs have fans who pay for the SKY dishes.

John, Gubrats, We have hundreds of schools playing RL we have scores of Community clubs running junior ARL at all ages, these are stocked by scores of coaches and this infrastructure sits in places where the whole thing is based on interest in the senior professional clubs, and is inextricably  linked to that.

You cannot throw the senior clubs at Bradford Widnes, Wakefield, Huddersfield out of Superleague and depress interest in those towns and replace those clubs in SL with clubs hundreds if not thousands of miles away where they don't play RL and certainly will never have the junior infrastructures we do.

Anyone can throw a bit of money about, find a few mercenaries and create a phoney baloney club but once again as Lenegan says they cannot be shunting our clubs out without developing players. They cannot shunt our clubs out without attracting paying TV deals. These are Mr. Lenegan's criteria for new SL clubs to be acceptable not mine Gentlemen.

A 14 club SL with four expansion clubs may well leave several big M62 clubs out in the wilderness to wither away, I will name them - they would be Bradford and Widnes and could be Wakefield and Salford. Do we really think that we can start throwing as many of the bigger clubs as this out of SL for "expansion clubs" such as...... I will name them in the absence of you gents backing off the question. New York, Toulouse, Belgrade and Barcelona.

The bottom line is....Is  this replacement of 33% of our big clubs for clubs who have no proof of rich backers nor produce SL players nor attract TV deals really really really a good idea?? Mr. Lenegan thinks not so he's on my side......How about you?

 

On 2/12/2019 at 12:30 PM, The Parksider said:

Not today thank you.   They must get most of their players from here as there is a restrictive quota for overseas players and heavy visa restrictions and rightly so. We must keep the game alive here and must encourage it to be played here and must give most of the SL spots to English players. No grassroots no game, only phoney clubs full of antipodeans. You are so wrong. I don't want Kooks who shut Salford's academy down forming a phoney club and signing up 18 English players out of real clubs who need them thenselves into a silly circus. That's neither development nor expansion.

Go think hard about "expansion" it is not signing up 25 players and shipping them off to play in Liverpool or New York. 

We have a record of close to Zero expansion at professional level. The youngest professional SL club dates back to 1935. Even in the Championships there aren't any clubs outside the M62 and south of France that has any sort of a grassroots game. The exception is London and my realistic hope is Argyle comes here to build a real quality winning London SL club. SL bosses would fall at his feet if he did which is why they tolerate the man. SKY would actually pay real money for that. Then more London lads may play as well. That is  REAL expansion as you are astute enough to recognise.

You've never "proved" anything, just dreamed it up and turned to insults when your dreams are exposed.

Have you ever thought it out why Wigan churn out so many many great players, and why Widnes used to do that but certainly no longer do that?? I have. Wigan's winning ways inspired many kids to play and several Wigan lads have said that on Camera. At Widnes their long run at the top had inspired and developed a large local contingent of superb Widnes players many Internationals. Their demise on relegation in 1995 saw the demise of their local game and that long demise depressed the local game accordingly.

Great players did come out of Oldham at Waterhead, St,Annes and Saddleworth but more were produced when Oldham were a top club, even the ones I quote were produced many years ago and few are found there now. When Warrington were your average SL team winning not much their team hardly had any locals, now they have won cups and got to many finals look at the number of local lads now coming through.

At Bradford what followed their blazing early successes in Superleague was another upturn in junior development and quality local lads coming through like John Bateman. What followed Workington's exit from SL 22 years ago was the equal demise of their junior game in West Cumbria which has been decimated and YES clubs have certainly stopped existing and numbers have certainly fallen badly there.

There is a direct correlation between the levels of junior players and the success of the local pro-clubs. You may want to point to how 400 old men watching Hunslet inspire so many quality players to come out of the Hunslet area. But I bet you would not dare use that argument on me. You'll probably turn to your fall back position of becoming insulting and playing to your "expansion" fans on here.

SKY are interested in Rugby league because they can sell dishes to traditional English fans. SKY can make money from that. They won't make any money from your stupid "World league"  you propose from Perth to New York and Barcelona to Copenhagen. 

Grow up a bit and think hard about "expansion" it is not relegating Castleford, Wakefield and Huddersfield to the Championship for the next 20 years whilst Perth, New York and Barcelona take their places. That is geographical substitution that would see the TV deal end, thousands of fans give up watching, and would leave kids south of Leeds looking to Soccer and Union if they fancied playing team sports then where would your Sheffield's New York's and Copenhagen' get their players??

 

On 2/20/2019 at 7:10 PM, Moove said:

Haha I think you knew what I meant. I'm a backer of the Toronto vision but they look a bit daft touting Copenhagen, Belgrade, Nice etc and ending up playing at Hull KR.

 

6 hours ago, The Parksider said:

And it's a very poor one as well. Rugby league has NEVER had a closed attitude to expansion and you choose to ignore 60 new clubs from places all over that have been allowed into the game over the years. For sure a number of hair brained schemes have been refused but Southend Invicta managed to get a go as did Trafford Borough who thought there was a market for a Manchester team oblivious to there already being two long established clubs serving the area. of course Liverpool have had three shots at it with the original club, then Liverpool Stanley/City and Huyton. Do you think Koukash has "anything new"

As for funding you talk about the "ability to correctly fund things" as though the people who run the game and the people at clubs actually have the money to create successful new teams but are somehow failing to put it in the right places. For sure where you appear to hail from Richard Branson sank enough into London to try to make it work, but it just didn't and he said just what a monumental and highly expensive task it was to try to add professional RL clubs to the game in places Soccer and Union dominate.

so please do continue with your opinion, but maybe back it with some reality and some facts?

1. We both were around in 1970/1/2 when the game was at it's lowest ebb and the amateur game was actually dying. BARLA and David Oxley did sterling work to improve matters and the Pay TV era has also enabled us to professionalise and we are still going after 122 years, so i would go steady here. I would not use the drop in kids playing RL as any proof of dying because that drop is mirrored in Union and soccer and they cannot be called "dying". 

2. I do agree there's an element of "keeping things alive" though hence it is so important that Widnes find a wealthy backer to get the club back on track and retain Widnes as an RL town. It has an established set up for playing the game, and at their best they were (as were Bulls) as impressive a side  as anyone and  a great TV watch.

If we want to kill the game we can replace clubs like Bulls and Widnes with Honolulu and Timbuktoo on a progressive basis. If that's bit ambitious then we can always start with Manchester and Liverpool and go onto Belgrade, Copenhagen New York and Barcelona, where people claim "growth awaits" before we then actually go into Africa and west of America....

I'll get mi flat cap!! see you down the Junction.....

I had no idea there was such interest in Copenhagen. Oddly, I am not sure who these arguments are with.

"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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52 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

 

 

 

I had no idea there was such interest in Copenhagen. Oddly, I am not sure who these arguments are with.

I wasn't arguing with anyone in the post you've quoted. I simply commented that Toronto came out saying they were going to be taking games around some fashionable areas of Europe as part of their approach to selling the game (including Copenhagen). All they've actually managed to pull off is a game at Hull KR.

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4 hours ago, Dave T said:

That is a risk, but you'd like to think that would be too controversial.

Widnes was the last RL team to switch from being a members club with an elected committee, to a limited company. There's a long history of local councillors being on the committee running the club. Halton council offered to the RFL to take a stake in the Vikings the last time the club's board of directors suddenly discovered that all the money had disappeared overnight. I doubt there's many local councils quite so supportive of RL. No chance the council will do anything to the stadium. Apart from anything else, it's about the only nice looking modern building in the town...

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4 hours ago, Moove said:

I wasn't arguing with anyone in the post you've quoted. I simply commented that Toronto came out saying they were going to be taking games around some fashionable areas of Europe as part of their approach to selling the game (including Copenhagen). All they've actually managed to pull off is a game at Hull KR.

A very fair point. To the best of my knowledge, there has been no attempt to host a game in Copenhagen. It is actually a shame, as festivals and events attract huge crowds and there is no top class sport. But, it is not so much that it has failed as not been attempted. 

"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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£15,000 had been reportedly raised so far and the Widnes Twitter page is very much on a fundraising push. Players seem to be manning the phones.

I'm concerned about this. We've seen it before. £500,000 was raised in 2012 to "save Bradford". Former players sold medals in the process.

Yet no-one knows where that money went. I worry that the same may happen here.

I worry that the commitment of fans, who pour hundreds, maybe thousands into following their team anyway per year , is being taken advantage of.

And for what? To cover financial mismanagement of others, who emerge unscathed. Many of these individuals still remain in the game. Some even get better jobs. Some even become leaders in the sport.

I hope I'm wrong. I really do. But I've seen it before. Widnes fans were told 10 months ago by James Rule that they were debt free. Now they're staring into the abyss and are being asked to dig into their pockets.

And the average rugby league fan doesn't have deep pockets. Yet the love of their club and the sport means they do it anyway.

Nobody knows where this money is going. Widnes certainly aren't telling the fans.

The fans get nothing in return either. No influence. No assurance or way of holding any new board to account. Money given in good faith to people who have no right to it.

It's disgraceful and emotionally manipulative. This is why we need supporters associations to organise themselves again. To exert influence, to hold secretive shysters to account.

The Widnes fans now have the chance to reset, coordinate and privately fundraise rather than pour it unconditionally into a failing business. I hope they take it.

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23 minutes ago, Chris22 said:

£15,000 had been reportedly raised so far and the Widnes Twitter page is very much on a fundraising push. Players seem to be manning the phones.

I'm concerned about this. We've seen it before. £500,000 was raised in 2012 to "save Bradford". Former players sold medals in the process.

Yet no-one knows where that money went. I worry that the same may happen here.

I worry that the commitment of fans, who pour hundreds, maybe thousands into following their team anyway per year , is being taken advantage of.

And for what? To cover financial mismanagement of others, who emerge unscathed. Many of these individuals still remain in the game. Some even get better jobs. Some even become leaders in the sport.

I hope I'm wrong. I really do. But I've seen it before. Widnes fans were told 10 months ago by James Rule that they were debt free. Now they're staring into the abyss and are being asked to dig into their pockets.

And the average rugby league fan doesn't have deep pockets. Yet the love of their club and the sport means they do it anyway.

Nobody knows where this money is going. Widnes certainly aren't telling the fans.

The fans get nothing in return either. No influence. No assurance or way of holding any new board to account. Money given in good faith to people who have no right to it.

It's disgraceful and emotionally manipulative. This is why we need supporters associations to organise themselves again. To exert influence, to hold secretive shysters to account.

The Widnes fans now have the chance to reset, coordinate and privately fundraise rather than pour it unconditionally into a failing business. I hope they take it.

The fans should demand a place on the board in return for the money raised, that way it didn’t go missing like it did at Bradford.

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7 hours ago, Chris22 said:

£15,000 had been reportedly raised so far and the Widnes Twitter page is very much on a fundraising push. Players seem to be manning the phones.

I'm concerned about this. We've seen it before. £500,000 was raised in 2012 to "save Bradford". Former players sold medals in the process.

Yet no-one knows where that money went. I worry that the same may happen here.

I worry that the commitment of fans, who pour hundreds, maybe thousands into following their team anyway per year , is being taken advantage of.

And for what? To cover financial mismanagement of others, who emerge unscathed. Many of these individuals still remain in the game. Some even get better jobs. Some even become leaders in the sport.

I hope I'm wrong. I really do. But I've seen it before. Widnes fans were told 10 months ago by James Rule that they were debt free. Now they're staring into the abyss and are being asked to dig into their pockets.

And the average rugby league fan doesn't have deep pockets. Yet the love of their club and the sport means they do it anyway.

Nobody knows where this money is going. Widnes certainly aren't telling the fans.

The fans get nothing in return either. No influence. No assurance or way of holding any new board to account. Money given in good faith to people who have no right to it.

It's disgraceful and emotionally manipulative. This is why we need supporters associations to organise themselves again. To exert influence, to hold secretive shysters to account.

The Widnes fans now have the chance to reset, coordinate and privately fundraise rather than pour it unconditionally into a failing business. I hope they take it.

VIQI, an independent fundraising organisation that has supported Widnes Vikings for almost 20 years has stepped forward to help coordinate fundraising efforts to save the club. Supporters can donate and sign up to become members of the association at www.viqi.co.uk

As an independent organisation with its own bank account, all money donated is securely ringfenced by VIQI and will not be put at risk by the club’s current administration challenges. Money donated will be used to help take the club out of administration, if possible, or to support the continuation of professional rugby league in our town.

Supporters can continue to donate through the crowd funder which had been set up by supporter Bethany Pennington. With every day counting, supporters are encouraged to donate as soon as possible and to give as generously as possible.

Vikings Supporters are encouraged to sign up become a VIQI Members. This can help provide sustainable and reliable income to support Widnes Vikings. This will help VIQI to demonstrate to potential investors that Widnes Vikings can become a sustainable club, which has the full backing of its supporters.  

If VIQI can generate 1000-1500 members, contributing £15 per month, they will collectively generate between £180,000 to £270,000 per year for the club. This would help attract further investment and see Widnes Vikings’ supporters likely become the primary investors in their team.

Throughout Widnes Vikings’ Championship and Super League history, VIQI members have collectively raised almost £200,000 for the club, helping to sign almost 40 first team players and invest in the club’s youth system. From our first signing, Martin Crompton, through to the likes of Corey Thompson, VIQI have consistently supported the progress of Widnes Vikings and assisted the club at times of need.

Jason Shaw, Founder of VIQI, says: “At this time of financial uncertainty for the club, we would like to step forward to help lead and protect the fundraising efforts to save Widnes Vikings. Whilst all of us are hurting by the current crisis, the only thing that matters now is action. A united effort from our supporters and backers of the club can help save our historic team.

We encourage supporters and members of the rugby league community to donate to the crowd funder as generously as possible. We also hope that our supporters will sign up to become VIQI members to demonstrate to potential investors that the club has the support of its community and ongoing revenue. Securing a thousand or more members by Wednesday 27th February at £15 a month is essential in demonstrating the local passion for the club and its sustainability.

Supporters are encouraged to share the www.viqi.co.uk website as far and wide as possible.

As an independent organisation, with a long heritage of supporting Widnes Vikings in times of need, we hope that we can be a trusted partner for supporters. With our own bank account, we will safeguard the money raised and ensure that it is used appropriately to assist the long-term future of this club.

Our immediate priority is to help generate enough funds to make a meaningful contribution to ensure that Widnes Vikings can overcome the threat of liquidation.

Ultimately, we hope that VIQI can work to help establish an active Supporters Trust, with the aim of taking an ownership stake in the club. With representatives from across our supporter-base working together, we hope that this will create a more sustainable and transparent club, that we all have a stake in. Given the need to generate funding immediately, this plan will naturally be developed at a later stage.”

 

 

the money rasied by VIQI is not given directly to the club, so is secure if we do go into liquidation. 

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1 hour ago, WidnesSamatty said:

the money rasied by VIQI is not given directly to the club, so is secure if we do go into liquidation. 

This may be covered, and apologies if it is ... hopefully the club does avoid liquidation but if it doesn't, is there are a plan for the funds then? Does it support a phoenix club and/or go towards grassroots rugby in the area?

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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21 hours ago, Angelic Cynic said:

   Parky,        You are the one who has argued against clubs being dependent on a sole,rich benefactor.Your first paragraph above suggests it is difficult.Then you hope for a wealthy backer to the M62 giant club,the former Cup winners and World Club Champions,Widnes.

I can post my thoughts clearly enough without them being altered thank you. My point has always been consistent that if you find a wealthy backer in New York and he ships 30 players from here – let’s say all the Widnes squad, over there, it does not expand the game only the number of miles travelled. It will kill Widnes as a club and an RL town, and it will be one more nail in the TV deal and the game. People over here (albeit not 30 dreamers on this website) want the reality of Saints.v.Leeds not New York.v.Boston?.

Instead of sniping at me at every turn, why not set out your vision for the future and the growth of the game and explain to me how it will work?. Tell me where the players will come from to go play 200 miles away let alone 3,000, because if Widnes go there won’t be much Rugby League played there after their club has been stripped of it’s players and replaced by a New York?. The kids in New York won’t be playing RL either.

Once you’ve got half of the English clubs thrown out tell me which way the TV audience will go?. Then tell me whether SKY will even bother if their traditional English audience is fed a diet of a phoney baloney league full of clubs who pushed their own clubs out of Superleague and off the Telly?.

As I have always said the TV deal is not enough to support a 12 club SL. It needs rich backers as well, and those like Moran, Pearson, Lenegan Davey etc  are immensely valuable to our game s their investment supports the development of quality players and the obtaining of a Paying TV deal . Dreamers like Kooks in Liverpool and Wilby in New York are a waste of time. If a £££££Trillionaire came along and said “I want to open a Superleague club in Honolulu” would you back that?. If you would explain to me the reality side of that idea some on here would lap up, explain the actual hard yards of developing players and finding TV deals in Hawai, rather than leaching off our game?

I've waited two and a half years for the actual details of the world league idea, and everyone backs right off when I ask them directly, so it's now your chance to make the actual real life business case  which as Lenegan said has to include the development of more pro-players and the obtaining of bigger TV deals. Please don't go get a pin and plunge it in a map and say - if we don't try that place we will die...

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40 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

This may be covered, and apologies if it is ... hopefully the club does avoid liquidation but if it doesn't, is there are a plan for the funds then? Does it support a phoenix club and/or go towards grassroots rugby in the area?

Money donated will be used to help take the club out of administration, if possible, or to support the continuation of professional rugby league in our town.

 

I think this may answer that. I just hope we have a pro team in the town to watch. With somebody genuine in charge. 

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28 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I genuinely wish the club all the best, but I don't like the official club Twitter campaigning for these 'independent' funds.

It has stopped me donating to be honest.

Think it’s a case of all remaining employees trying to sort this mess out.

Board of Directors / Owners very conspicuous by their absence at the minute.

Obviously James Rule can’t do anything while in Witness protection. 

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On 2/21/2019 at 10:57 PM, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Most of the clubs outside the chosen few walk a financial tightrope every season. My lot were doing OK last pre season until a major sponsor went bust just before the season started. It took us all season to get things back on an even keel.

But importantly you did get back on an even keel.

I can only conclude that some clubs are way overspending, not just a little.

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10 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Think it’s a case of all remaining employees trying to sort this mess out.

Board of Directors / Owners very conspicuous by their absence at the minute.

Obviously James Rule can’t do anything while in Witness protection. 

Yeah I suppose so, it just makes me wonder are the administrators running that stuff. 

I think this should be truly independent, but I accept its probably just normal employees doing their best. I just dont think employees are independent.

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This fundraising effort has nothing to do with Widnes Sport Ltd, the Company Steve O'Connor started after we went into Administration in 2007.

This is all being done by genuine fans of the Club, which includes Players and backroom staff. They obviously have no job if the worst happens, so they all worked 12.1/2 hours at the Club yesterday, for free!

Ex-Viking Big Wille Isa also went down and helped on the phones yesterday.

Widnes - Cheshire's Original Glamour Club.

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Been out of ciruclation so not seen the full story.

Another sad day though when a traditional (or any) club goes to the wall and hope that worse is not to come.

Just cannot understand why this has happened 3 weeks into the season ?  Surely the club directors had trading and cash flow forecasts and attempted to cut their cloth accordingly so they could survive the season  at Championship level even if this meant offloading/releasing some of the bigger names/contracts. What has changed ?

Fans should be very careful though about raising cash and pumping it into the administration to allow the club to limp on. That cash will simply go on wages and administrators fees and could be better used in buying the assets out of administration for a new company or a voluntary arrangement and taking control. Timing is rubbish though as you cant just go for a brand new company clear of debt mid season. 

MIght be better long term if the current club folds and does not fulfill any more fixtures. The fans and any new investors can then start a new debt free and properly funded company and have the time to prepare and relaunch next season and attempt to work their way back like Bradford did.   

Maybe the Doc will revive his interest and be better received. My worry there would be that if he comes in would expect it under the "LIverpool" banner and not Widnes.

Anyway good luck to teh club and all the true fans. At the moment most clubs are just one poor season away from where you are

 

 

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2 hours ago, The Parksider said:

I can post my thoughts clearly enough without them being altered thank you. My point has always been consistent that if you find a wealthy backer in New York and he ships 30 players from here – let’s say all the Widnes squad, over there, it does not expand the game only the number of miles travelled. It will kill Widnes as a club and an RL town, and it will be one more nail in the TV deal and the game. People over here (albeit not 30 dreamers on this website) want the reality of Saints.v.Leeds not New York.v.Boston?.

Instead of sniping at me at every turn, why not set out your vision for the future and the growth of the game and explain to me how it will work?. Tell me where the players will come from to go play 200 miles away let alone 3,000, because if Widnes go there won’t be much Rugby League played there after their club has been stripped of it’s players and replaced by a New York?. The kids in New York won’t be playing RL either.

Once you’ve got half of the English clubs thrown out tell me which way the TV audience will go?. Then tell me whether SKY will even bother if their traditional English audience is fed a diet of a phoney baloney league full of clubs who pushed their own clubs out of Superleague and off the Telly?.

As I have always said the TV deal is not enough to support a 12 club SL. It needs rich backers as well, and those like Moran, Pearson, Lenegan Davey etc  are immensely valuable to our game s their investment supports the development of quality players and the obtaining of a Paying TV deal . Dreamers like Kooks in Liverpool and Wilby in New York are a waste of time. If a £££££Trillionaire came along and said “I want to open a Superleague club in Honolulu” would you back that?. If you would explain to me the reality side of that idea some on here would lap up, explain the actual hard yards of developing players and finding TV deals in Hawai, rather than leaching off our game?

I've waited two and a half years for the actual details of the world league idea, and everyone backs right off when I ask them directly, so it's now your chance to make the actual real life business case  which as Lenegan said has to include the development of more pro-players and the obtaining of bigger TV deals. Please don't go get a pin and plunge it in a map and say - if we don't try that place we will die...

  Parky,

            I do not think I snipe at you at every turn and I apologise for giving that impression.

I haven't got half the English clubs thrown out.What has happened is that owners of the club,and those they appoint,manage to lose the clubs a considerable amount of money.None of these people ever face the courts.Even Vaughan,at Widnes,faced charges NOT directly related to matters relevant to Widnes but for matters 'around' while he was at the club.

 What do you think should happen to these recidivist heartland clubs and their financial suicides? 

 I don't think since the introduction of Sky that playing matters have improved too much - while it seems the Premier League in association football is now,apparently considered the best;even though this is where overseas players are involved.

 Since Sky came in I don't think there is any huge increase in attendances or young people playing or showing an interest in the sport.

 I don't know which way the television audience will go - but I guess it may be slightly more interested in a sport that has more appeal than six or so towns/cities running parallel to a cross country road in the north of England.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           More money goes out of the sport to administrators than goes to the grassroots.

  If there is a larger television deal it will simply all go to those clubs which are already the wealthiest.That doesn't enlarge the rugby league footprint or improve the numbers playing and attending games.

  As seen at Leigh,Salford and Widnes,the wealthy benefactors are unable to stay for any length of time,and coaches,players and supporters all suffer. There appears to be a lack of any wealthy replacements.

 The idea of an independent think tank,outside of Super League,and RFL people,but involving players and coaches,does seem a wise option as suggested by Paul McNally.  ( I suggest coaches - Paul McNally mentions certain players )                                                https://medium.com/@iampaulmcnally/the-state-of-it-part-2-rugby-league-almost-20-years-into-the-new-millennium-8b55b770abe7

  

     No reserves,but resilience,persistence and determination are omnipotent.                       

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