Sun 24 Feb: SL: Wigan Warriors v Hull FC KO 3pm

[Exiled Wiganer]

Really pleased for FC. looking at the team sheet it beggars belief that they have somehow gone so long without a win. They have a squad good enough to win something again. In American football, I think they have a rule that, if one side scores a goal during extra time the other side gets the ball. I think that is quite a good idea, especially if the winning kick comes after a late tackle penalty. That is not to say that FC didn’t deserve their win. Every good judge who was there that I have heard from agrees that they were clearly the better side.

The WCC will of course have played a big part. We will be more than reet when they big games come. 

[bobbruce]

2 hours ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

Really pleased for FC. looking at the team sheet it beggars belief that they have somehow gone so long without a win. They have a squad good enough to win something again. In American football, I think they have a rule that, if one side scores a goal during extra time the other side gets the ball. I think that is quite a good idea, especially if the winning kick comes after a late tackle penalty. That is not to say that FC didn’t deserve their win. Every good judge who was there that I have heard from agrees that they were clearly the better side.

The WCC will of course have played a big part. We will be more than reet when they big games come. 

Silver point is perfect for Rugby league as it will almost certainly guarantee a winner but without the wierd end to a game you get with golden point. 

[Old Frightful]

Just read this post from a Wigan fan on RLFans...

"Everyone around me was saying that the only way we would win in GP time was to keep Sneyd away from DG range. Cue a dumb-ass penalty, a kick to touch and 6 tackles starting from about 40 yards out, and the entire row in front of me was already on their way out as they knew it was game over the minute the penalty was awarded."

Nice bit of respect for the "AHDIK" man. 

[Roy Boy]

2 hours ago, Old Frightful said:

Just read this post from a Wigan fan on RLFans...

" OF was already on his way out as he thought it was game over the minute Wigan got the last try."

Edited.....

 

[Jinking Jimmy]

21 hours ago, Rupert Prince said:

Ignorant rubbish.  

I think I’ve touched a nerve there. Williams is a marquee player on a substantial salary, and, in my opinion, should be be bringing far more to the team than he does. By the way, my “ ignorant rubbish” stems from watching Wigan for probably a lot longer than you have and I’ve seen them all from David Bolton through to Williams.

[Exiled Wiganer]

52 minutes ago, Jinking Jimmy said:

I think I’ve touched a nerve there. Williams is a marquee player on a substantial salary, and, in my opinion, should be be bringing far more to the team than he does. By the way, my “ ignorant rubbish” stems from watching Wigan for probably a lot longer than you have and I’ve seen them all from David Bolton through to Williams.

I can’t quite remember Dave Bolton, but started watching  not long after. I think Williams lacks game vision, but is a really dangerous off the cuff player and a good kicker in attack. The key question for me is what Lam (and Edwards if he lasts that long) makes of him. They also have Smith and Woods to work with. I will trust their judgement but I wonder if they have pretty much already concluded that he is not the answer for us long term, hence the NRL interest 2 years before the end of his contract (= transfer fee). 

[Rupert Prince]

38 minutes ago, Jinking Jimmy said:

I think I’ve touched a nerve there. Williams is a marquee player on a substantial salary, and, in my opinion, should be be bringing far more to the team than he does. By the way, my “ ignorant rubbish” stems from watching Wigan for probably a lot longer than you have and I’ve seen them all from David Bolton through to Williams.

He is playing for England and would probably be second in line behind Widdop or playing alongside him if the latter were playing 7.  The first choice in the WC was Brown!

Your original comments were fatuous. And I have been watching the game as long as you have. It may be that Williams will not be a marquee player much longer because he may be playing for Canberra soon.

I will be delighted to find someone who is English and who is better and who Bennett can fit into the squad, because it would mean we have found someone exceptional.

[Jinking Jimmy]

13 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

He is playing for England and would probably be second in line behind Widdop or playing alongside him if the latter were playing 7.  The first choice in the WC was Brown!

Your original comments were fatuous. And I have been watching the game as long as you have. It may be that Williams will not be a marquee player much longer because he may be playing for Canberra soon.

I will be delighted to find someone who is English and who is better and who Bennett can fit into the squad, because it would mean we have found someone exceptional.

Ok I accept that you’ve watched Wigan as long as I have and I apologise if my comments offended you. The fact that he is considered the best English player in his position in SL probably speaks volumes about what is or is not currently available. His possible move to Canberra is  baffling as his position is not one the NRL clubs normally struggle to fill. If he does go there I sincerely hope he is a great success as I would love to be proved wrong. He is after all a Wiganer.

[Rupert Prince]

2 hours ago, Jinking Jimmy said:

Ok I accept that you’ve watched Wigan as long as I have and I apologise if my comments offended you. The fact that he is considered the best English player in his position in SL probably speaks volumes about what is or is not currently available. His possible move to Canberra is  baffling as his position is not one the NRL clubs normally struggle to fill. If he does go there I sincerely hope he is a great success as I would love to be proved wrong. He is after all a Wiganer.

Indeed.  I believe everyone deserves criticism, me, you, other posters and also players.  Even referees (as Joel will agree!)!  I just do not like to see players being belittled.

What we can agree on is that there are very few world class English backs.  We do have an awfully lot of very good ones, really very good ones. And let's hope Bennett moulds them together, because they can still do something.   But if we had just one that could walk on water....

[Exiled Wiganer]

A major problem is a lack of A team games. For players like Woods and Smith they should be playing there for Wigan rather than out on D R. And that comes down to the greed and short sightedness of the majority of SL clubs. Our halves stall when they leave the academy, and take many more years to develop. 

With Williams the key point is who else plays around him. If you want an off the cuff player who tackles well, alongside an organising 7 then he is your man. Just don’t ask him to lead a side around the park. 

[Lowdesert]

5 hours ago, Rupert Prince said:

Indeed.  I believe everyone deserves criticism, me, you, other posters and also players.  Even referees (as Joel will agree!)!  I just do not like to see players being belittled.

What we can agree on is that there are very few world class English backs.  We do have an awfully lot of very good ones, really very good ones. And let's hope Bennett moulds them together, because they can still do something.   But if we had just one that could walk on water....

Jake Connor.  He’s already left the halves in SL behind and is the national teams future.  Not comparing him to Ellery, but they are similar in that the more work you give him, the better he gets.

 

[Old Frightful]

46 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Jake Connor.

Beat me to it mate.

[Exiled Wiganer]

Very wise not to compare him with Ellery, who would have single handedly ensured that his team wasn’t in a 13 match losing streak. 

[Denton Rovers RLFC]

3 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

Very wise not to compare him with Ellery. 

Yeah, Connor has far more to his game than Ellery could ever dream about. EH was a superb athlete, great mindset and no nonsense approach but wasn't a skilled rugby league player IMHO. Certainly not a craft based 13 in a month of Sundays and the likes of Whiteley, even O'loughlin make him seem limited in that role. He'd be immense as a tackle busting 2nd row or back to his slimmed down winger days but I wouldn't want him anywhere else, maybe right centre at a push.

[Lowdesert]

23 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

Very wise not to compare him with Ellery, who would have single handedly ensured that his team wasn’t in a 13 match losing streak. 

High praise.  Thanks.

[Lowdesert]

Man of the match votes went;

Wigan Warriors v Hull FC     

3pts - Jamie Shaul      

2pts - Danny Houghton          

1pt - Marc Sneyd

.......and the Wigan fans booed him off.  Classy.

[Davo5]

30 minutes ago, Denton Rovers RLFC said:

Yeah, Connor has far more to his game than Ellery could ever dream about. EH was a superb athlete, great mindset and no nonsense approach but wasn't a skilled rugby league player IMHO. Certainly not a craft based 13 in a month of Sundays and the likes of Whiteley, even O'loughlin make him seem limited in that role. He'd be immense as a tackle busting 2nd row or back to his slimmed down winger days but I wouldn't want him anywhere else, maybe right centre at a push.

Give your head a wobble man.

[Jinking Jimmy]

1 hour ago, Lowdesert said:

Jake Connor.  He’s already left the halves in SL behind and is the national teams future.  Not comparing him to Ellery, but they are similar in that the more work you give him, the better he gets.

 

A fully switched on Jake Connor could become one of the best players of recent times.

[MZH]

2 hours ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

Very wise not to compare him with Ellery, who would have single handedly ensured that his team wasn’t in a 13 match losing streak. 

To be fair, Connor missed a big old chunk of that run. He only played in 5 of those games, and one of them was the one he got injured in. When he came back at the end of the season we immediately improved and pushed Catalans and Wigan close, should have won both of them really.

Connor is an exceptional player. I don't see anyone else in SL doing the things he does on a regular basis. He has the ability to be one of the worlds best. However, comparing him with Hanley is comparing him with one of the best there has ever been. At this moment in time its a little hyperbolic to say the least. If he gets into that realm we have a very special player indeed.

[Roy Boy]

All the greats had the ability to excite you by thinking fast and executing with precision.  Always seemed to have the ability to make things slow down around them while they go full speed.

Connor could well be that type of player if he keeps going as he is.

He doesn't need to change his attitude imho, as it's part of what makes him tick.  Without looking at stats I'm fairly sure there are plenty of current SL players with a much higher penalty count against them that I don't see the same rhetoric about that Connor gets!

I'm not saying he's the answer yet, but he has a very good chance of becoming a great if he continues as he is

[Rupert Prince]

16 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

Jake Connor.  He’s already left the halves in SL behind and is the national teams future.  Not comparing him to Ellery, but they are similar in that the more work you give him, the better he gets.

 

All he has done so far is dipped his toe in the water.  But good luck to him.

[Lowdesert]

1 hour ago, Rupert Prince said:

All he has done so far is dipped his toe in the water.  But good luck to him.

Just a bit disingenuous.  I think being an International is the pinnacle of any players career.  Connor is an international.

Considering Williams, who I've hoped would crack it in the England side for some time, has had more or less a clear run at replacing Smith and Brown as Widdops partner, he hasn't taken his chance.  Connor outshone him last Sunday and imo will continue to increase the gap if he stays healthy.

 

 

[Rupert Prince]

2 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

Just a bit disingenuous.  I think being an International is the pinnacle of any players career.  Connor is an international.

Considering Williams, who I've hoped would crack it in the England side for some time, has had more or less a clear run at replacing Smith and Brown as Widdops partner, he hasn't taken his chance.  Connor outshone him last Sunday and imo will continue to increase the gap if he stays healthy.

Widdop is first choice, if fit, as nr 6. Gale was, until injured, nr 7.  Williams is currently 2nd in line to Widdop.  What has to be determined is who is likely to be both nr 7 and nr 1when England next play. The reason Widdop was put in at nr1 in the WC was because of unavailability of a full back (plus Tomkins out of favour).

Thus Williams is currently second in line to Widdop.  Conner has stepped up along with Gildart as second choices in the centre.  Where this works out in the wash we will have to see, because both first choice England wingers are injured and a number of available options are knocking on the door of those who played last time.

It's a moot point what would have happened if Tomkins (or A.N. Other) had played fullback in the WC, and Widdop 6.

But in any event if he is fit, then the key position is at 7. Worrying about Williams and Connor is secondary, although its a nice thing to have to worry about. And we are only 3 games in.

 

[Lowdesert]

3 hours ago, Rupert Prince said:

Widdop is first choice, if fit, as nr 6. Gale was, until injured, nr 7.  Williams is currently 2nd in line to Widdop.  What has to be determined is who is likely to be both nr 7 and nr 1when England next play. The reason Widdop was put in at nr1 in the WC was because of unavailability of a full back (plus Tomkins out of favour).

Thus Williams is currently second in line to Widdop.  Conner has stepped up along with Gildart as second choices in the centre.  Where this works out in the wash we will have to see, because both first choice England wingers are injured and a number of available options are knocking on the door of those who played last time.

It's a moot point what would have happened if Tomkins (or A.N. Other) had played fullback in the WC, and Widdop 6.

But in any event if he is fit, then the key position is at 7. Worrying about Williams and Connor is secondary, although its a nice thing to have to worry about. And we are only 3 games in.

 

Bennett is loyal to his players, but he has already commented, several times, George isn’t a good communicator.  George still has it all to prove imo and so far, he hasn’t done enough.  He could be outstanding.

Connor, I’m sure, will bypass Gale and Williams with his performances and end up the the halves for England.  The only thing that will impact on his progress as a half is playing in the Centre.

Either way, he can make things happen and does it naturally.  Terrific footballer who can unlock a defence.  None of the aforementioned can do that and the next one to challenge alongside Connor will be Trueman.