Newcastle Thunder - Payne out, Thorman in?

[JoneslessBishop]

Jason Payne has been sacked at Newcastle. Chris Thorman seems a natural fit. Did well as interim boss at Hudds. Did he leave under a cloud due to police investigation or just new coach bringing in his own people .....

 

If not tarnished, and no charges brought, then having a Geordie at Newcastle can onky be a good thing. Make League seem more Geordie with one of their own at the helm, sound bytes on local news etc ...

[The Daddy]

I thought the writing was on the wall after the second half capitulation against Doncaster. With the level of investment put into that squad the past two performances were nowhere near good enough. 

 

 

[Oliver Clothesoff]

Twelve years of service by Jason Payne, through some seriously dark days, and they’ve treated him like that? It doesn’t sit well with me. 

Two games in is ridiculously early to be removing a coach. 

[deluded pom?]

54 minutes ago, The Daddy said:

I thought the writing was on the wall after the second half capitulation against Doncaster. 

You have to be joking.

[NERugbyDad]

42 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Twelve years of service by Jason Payne, through some seriously dark days, and they’ve treated him like that? It doesn’t sit well with me. 

Two games in is ridiculously early to be removing a coach. 

Not saying it's right either, but 2 games in League 1 this year is a tenth of the season gone already.

[Moscow01]

Look at their squad - full of experienced Super League and Championship players. They should not be losing to Doncaster never mind Coventry. 

Last season they spent a lot on recruitment and failed to reach the play-offs. To be fair Bradford and York were very good but this season there’s no excuse. 

I’m sure Jason Payne was told that top 2/3 was the minimum target and losing their first two games makes that very hard in what is an ultra competitive division. 

I’m astonished that people are surprised about his sacking.

[deluded pom?]

31 minutes ago, Moscow01 said:

I’m sure Jason Payne was told that top 2/3 was the minimum target and losing their first two games makes that very hard in what is an ultra competitive division. 

Hard but far from impossible.

[Angelic Cynic]

30 minutes ago, Moscow01 said:

Look at their squad - full of experienced Super League and Championship players. They should not be losing to Doncaster never mind Coventry. 

Last season they spent a lot on recruitment and failed to reach the play-offs. To be fair Bradford and York were very good but this season there’s no excuse. 

I’m sure Jason Payne was told that top 2/3 was the minimum target and losing their first two games makes that very hard in what is an ultra competitive division. 

I’m astonished that people are surprised about his sacking.

   Those elite clubs with elite owners and television revenue and full time players with full-time coaches lose 2 games on the bounce.

      Wigan to Sydney Roosters and then to Hull FC - That Hull FC that are going to have the sport match the other code but lost something like 13 on the bounce.Ironic that it was Hull FC that were given a full club from Gateshead Thunder.

    I don't think any club,be they in the elite league,Championship or League 1 will go the full season without losing back to back,at least once.

   They trusted Jason Payne to step in short notice.He did so well throughout 2017 they allowed him to arrange his coaching team for this campaign - and trusted him to make the signings.

   Apart from the signings he made,recently,some of his players he has nurtured from his university side.

  I think there will be a lot of upset players and staff at the club.I hope it impacts on them for the 2 successive weeks West Wales Raiders travel there.

   I'm hoping for 2 more back to back defeats.

[The Daddy]

44 minutes ago, Moscow01 said:

Look at their squad - full of experienced Super League and Championship players. They should not be losing to Doncaster never mind Coventry. 

Last season they spent a lot on recruitment and failed to reach the play-offs. To be fair Bradford and York were very good but this season there’s no excuse. 

I’m sure Jason Payne was told that top 2/3 was the minimum target and losing their first two games makes that very hard in what is an ultra competitive division. 

I’m astonished that people are surprised about his sacking.

Absolutely spot on. 

[JoneslessBishop]

And Thorman as a replacement? 

[Thunder fan]

still in shock about this, a few names could replace payne, thorman, alan kilshaw, dennis betts, paul rowley, or even liam finn as player coach.

[Kris]

Finn was not good against Doncaster slow even for him and against Cov I understand they were completely outenthused 

I would suggest a fitness professional and a new coach that can man manage 

otherwise they wont be winning much this year 

[Davo5]

Numerous new additions to bed in and only 2 games into the season,seems a strange decision to me.

[Angelic Cynic]

The coaches named to replace him have all lost 2 games back to back in the past.( Those that have coached at League 1 level,or above)

Will they be sacking the replacement should he/she lose 2 games on the bounce?

The Falcons union side lose a few games - yet they retain their head coach.Utterly bizarre.

I'm guessing the 3 months hiatus may have been due to how the news was accepted.

If it wasn't it is a strange demonstration of duty of care.Mr Payne must be devastated.

Professional sport?  From Widnes to Tyneside,and beyond,rugby league never fails to gast my flabber.

[dead man inc]

I don’t know much about Thunder although they seem to be doing great things off the field to raise participation & have heavily invested in a promotion push. However, Mr Payne has been there a long time through the hard times in the past & his Northumbria university team seem to have won pretty much almost everything going consistently for the last 3 years - getting the sack after 2 games seems to show a real lack of loyalty. 

There are comments on the thread about Newcastle’s ex superleague players/championship level players should be beating the likes of ‘Coventry’ - perhaps there is more a case for the younger Coventry team (& the Broncos dual reg players like James Meadows, Rob Butler, Sam Davis) being ‘on the way up/improving’ where the ex superleague players/championship level players are winding down their careers? 

[Moscow01]

1 hour ago, Angelic Cynic said:

The coaches named to replace him have all lost 2 games back to back in the past.( Those that have coached at League 1 level,or above)

Will they be sacking the replacement should he/she lose 2 games on the bounce?

The Falcons union side lose a few games - yet they retain their head coach.Utterly bizarre.

I'm guessing the 3 months hiatus may have been due to how the news was accepted.

If it wasn't it is a strange demonstration of duty of care.Mr Payne must be devastated.

Professional sport?  From Widnes to Tyneside,and beyond,rugby league never fails to gast my flabber.

What nonsense. Do you just type the first thing that comes into your head?! 

What is so hard to understand? They spent  a hell of a lot last season and failed to make the play-offs. Payne was lucky he didn’t get the sack last autumn. 

They then bring in Liam Finn from Wakefield plus several Championship players. They capitulate on the opening day of the season and throw away a 22-4 lead at home. They then go to Coventry and look like a side that doesn’t want to defend. 

 

This is has nothing to do with Newcastle Falcons or duty of care. Any head coach knows they are judged by results. When a club, in any sport, has high expectations which end up unfulfilled the coach is usually the first one to take the blame. 

[The Daddy]

I'm absolutely flabbergasted that some people, including Jason Payne himself think that its acceptable a team in League One with experienced SL and championship players dont even make the play offs last year and then lose their first two games this year including to Coventry. 

Doesn't matter if he's been there for 12 years or not, these results do not read well and imo he deserved to go. 

[Cheshire Setter]

I didn’t know Thorman was in some sort of trouble with the police?   Is discussion permitted on this or is it all still under investigation?

[philipw]

17 minutes ago, Cheshire Setter said:

I didn’t know Thorman was in some sort of trouble with the police?   Is discussion permitted on this or is it all still under investigation?

Not sure what the issue was, but I believe he was cleared a while ago

[Angelic Cynic]

11 hours ago, Moscow01 said:

What nonsense. Do you just type the first thing that comes into your head?! 

What is so hard to understand? They spent  a hell of a lot last season and failed to make the play-offs. Payne was lucky he didn’t get the sack last autumn. 

They then bring in Liam Finn from Wakefield plus several Championship players. They capitulate on the opening day of the season and throw away a 22-4 lead at home. They then go to Coventry and look like a side that doesn’t want to defend. 

 

This is has nothing to do with Newcastle Falcons or duty of care. Any head coach knows they are judged by results. When a club, in any sport, has high expectations which end up unfulfilled the coach is usually the first one to take the blame. 

    In your opinion Jason Payne was lucky he didn't get the sack last autumn - yet those running the club allowed him to arrange his coaching team and then go out and spend money on new recruits.Perhaps those people running the club made a mistake or should every coach who fails to make the play-offs be sacked?

    Perhaps after throwing away a good half-time lead the players had a psychological problem which they couldn't overcome immediately in the following game.If only the club had paid out some money so part time players and the par time coach could have been assisted.

   Has Wayne Bennett never lost consecutive games?  Daniel Anderson,during his silverware collecting years at St Helens once lost the first 5 Super League games.Jason Payne lost 2 games before the first full month of the campaign.

   I shall look forward to you suggesting the coach be sacked whenever a side lose 2 games on the bounce - no matter what may be happening behind the scenes,whatever injuries may have occurred,and whatever monies are believed to have been paid out or what each player may be receiving.

  Without being a rugby league expert - and certainly without wanting to encourage them before West Wales raiders get up there - I did think the recruiting wasn't the best.But the experts at that club allowed it to be done.

   We'll have to wait and see if the next head coach can get a tune out of them.

   Whichever coach takes it on you will no doubt expect him to be sacked- if he fails to make the play-offs.

   I take it all these coaches who mention 'taking time to gel' and thereby get results,must be wrong.

   This fella spent some money and never got Salford to jel in a period of 12 months.He did win things at another club,though.

    Penultimate paragraph - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/26912273

    There,that's it - the first thing that's come into my head.

     Good health and a good future to Jason Payne.Thank you for taking the time to Tweet and say sensible words aimed at West Wales Raiders.

[Moscow01]

What in God’s name has Wayne Bennett got to do with this? Of course I’m not suggesting every coach who loses two games in a row that should be sacked, why you think that I really don’t know. 

I’m not usually one for engaging in conversation with someone as clueless and ill informed as you, so we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. 

[Anonymouse]

11 minutes ago, Monkey Lover said:

The lack of perspective in his post is astounding. Newcastle have looked awful in two games having spent a fortune assembling a very well fancied squad. The coach isn't experienced enough to get a tune out of the players and the board have quickly realised that and taken action. Everything Moscow01 has said is total sense. Winning something in a university league is a mile away from the NCL never mind professional leagues coaching players of SL standard which for me Finn still is (just).

If they appoint the right guy soon they will win the league. If they had waited another 3 or 4 weeks to make that call they won't have been able to catch Doncaster and Workington.

Agreed , the coach's 12 years commitment will have kept him in his position after failing his and the clubs target of playoff place last season , but after a full preseason 0f openly claiming this is promotion year then the  two surprise defeats in the first 2 games was enough to make the decision 

[deluded pom?]

58 minutes ago, Monkey Lover said:

The lack of perspective in his post is astounding. Newcastle have looked awful in two games having spent a fortune assembling a very well fancied squad. The coach isn't experienced enough to get a tune out of the players and the board have quickly realised that and taken action. Everything Moscow01 has said is total sense. Winning something in a university league is a mile away from the NCL never mind professional leagues coaching players of SL standard which for me Finn still is (just).

If they appoint the right guy soon they will win the league. If they had waited another 3 or 4 weeks to make that call they won't have been able to catch Doncaster and Workington.

Was Finn ever SL standard?

[MZH]

5 hours ago, Angelic Cynic said:

    In your opinion Jason Payne was lucky he didn't get the sack last autumn - yet those running the club allowed him to arrange his coaching team and then go out and spend money on new recruits.Perhaps those people running the club made a mistake or should every coach who fails to make the play-offs be sacked?

    Perhaps after throwing away a good half-time lead the players had a psychological problem which they couldn't overcome immediately in the following game.If only the club had paid out some money so part time players and the par time coach could have been assisted.

   Has Wayne Bennett never lost consecutive games?  Daniel Anderson,during his silverware collecting years at St Helens once lost the first 5 Super League games.Jason Payne lost 2 games before the first full month of the campaign.

   I shall look forward to you suggesting the coach be sacked whenever a side lose 2 games on the bounce - no matter what may be happening behind the scenes,whatever injuries may have occurred,and whatever monies are believed to have been paid out or what each player may be receiving.

  Without being a rugby league expert - and certainly without wanting to encourage them before West Wales raiders get up there - I did think the recruiting wasn't the best.But the experts at that club allowed it to be done.

   We'll have to wait and see if the next head coach can get a tune out of them.

   Whichever coach takes it on you will no doubt expect him to be sacked- if he fails to make the play-offs.

   I take it all these coaches who mention 'taking time to gel' and thereby get results,must be wrong.

   This fella spent some money and never got Salford to jel in a period of 12 months.He did win things at another club,though.

    Penultimate paragraph - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/26912273

    There,that's it - the first thing that's come into my head.

     Good health and a good future to Jason Payne.Thank you for taking the time to Tweet and say sensible words aimed at West Wales Raiders.

You keep banging on about this two defeats thing. But is that really the reason?

That have invested heavily in the squad and want to push for promotion. Maybe they feel they made a mistake signing him in first place. Maybe they aren't happy with the way he is dealing with certain things, or they feel that improvements aren't been made. Maybe the 2 defeats was just what it took to make up their mind.

I don't know anything about what goes on at Newcastle, but I can't believe that they would sack him so early if they were happy with him pre season. He must have come into 2019 already on thin ice.

[Angelic Cynic]

5 hours ago, MZH said:

You keep banging on about this two defeats thing. But is that really the reason?

That have invested heavily in the squad and want to push for promotion. Maybe they feel they made a mistake signing him in first place. Maybe they aren't happy with the way he is dealing with certain things, or they feel that improvements aren't been made. Maybe the 2 defeats was just what it took to make up their mind.

I don't know anything about what goes on at Newcastle, but I can't believe that they would sack him so early if they were happy with him pre season. He must have come into 2019 already on thin ice.

   I ain't banging on about the 2 defeats.

   Thunder won 2 pre-season games - a 3rd was postponed.

   A further signing was made earlier in February - once the season was underway.

    Some posters on her think the sacking was justified - because of those 2 defeats.

    I ain't bothered that it reminds me of professional association football - those Galacticos of Real Madrid were once quite infamous for their sackings.

   I am aware there is no sentiment in professional sport.

   I also recall that the stand-in coach Tim Rumford demonstrated great qualities by resigning from the club after his friend was sacked,some years ago - before he did a good job at Oxford.