Non-Super League clubs working to earn their central funding

[The Parksider]

17 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Yes but the lack of player production is often the criticism levelled at non SL clubs that don't run academies ( quite often ignoring the pointlessness of them doing so ) whereas all clubs could and should run community initiatives at modest cost that would encourage junior player participation 

The SKY deal provided ALL clubs with £17,800,000 to set up their foundations and provide "coaching" to encourage local junior participation mixed with charity initiatives. This was to encourage and facilitate kids entering the junior game. Yes your right that as only about one or two kids per Hundred make it,   just opening more and more academies next door to each other is pointless. Someone on a fantasy thread suggested clubs should do more "Scouting" when the reality is when a decent young player hits the scene half a dozen scouts are round there like a shot. Two academies in Hull is pointless and a joint one works better, but HKR will always wrongly be hammered on that with posts like the one on here. 

It's funny how everyone is saying how very important junior development is and how clubs must develop a local junior game and run academies , then the next day they are chucking "useless M62 clubs clubs" WITH academies out of Superleague and putting New York, Buffalo, Belgrade and Perth W.A. into their picks for Superleague. 

The SKY money did not pay directly for academies but did pay and did expect junior development via the foundations at every club and as far as I know they all complied with that. Your club understood the importance of this and of course they looked to share something with Salford.......

17 hours ago, paulwalker71 said:

I wonder if a club like Salford, who don't run an Academy to produce players, will have funding taken from them and given to clubs like Newcastle and Bradford who do? No, I suspect not. It's one set of criteria for 'Super' League, and another one for the rest!

If Bradford had not been saved by the RFL there may well not be an academy there. Had a wholly private investor got the club like a Koukash it could have been shut down as Kooks did with Salford's academy. I wouldn't moan about Salford when it looks clear that they have no more significant private backing, and are down to a 25 player squad. As brilliantly as the lads are doing they only become targets for the other clubs once they become out of contract.

I don't believe the hype in Newcastle as their league placing tells the truth, but I notice Kurdi seems to be now looking to greatly up his investment, and in London Argyle has invested in a club there. This may be a sign that they are reacting to the idea if they want to be part of a 2021 Superleague they need to be running clubs that really do make Rugby League work from the grass roots up to Superleague. We only have the rest of this season and next before the new lower TV deal.

The signs are all there that the "Fantasy" RL we have been playing on here will thankfully end when the RFL/SL become careful about who gets TV money and SL places. The big question for me is what happens in France? Do Catalans have an academy anymore? do Toulouse?? 

[fighting irish]

"We only have the rest of this season and next before the new lower TV deal." 

How do you know that the new deal, will be lower? 

[tuutaisrambo]

2 hours ago, fighting irish said:

"We only have the rest of this season and next before the new lower TV deal." 

How do you know that the new deal, will be lower? 

Just a hunch based on the lack of new deals Elstone has announced for SL so far and the less than impressive ones the RFL have done.

.......and SL league trying to take as much money away from the rest of the game as possible.

....... and the fact that sky are shedding the number of sports they cover.

But hey ho we don't know for sure they could decide to give us double.....fingers crossed.

 

[Wakefield Ram]

So the less successful clubs get even less money, that's going to help them achieve it next time round?  This is the same mindset as giving central funding in the Championship based on your finishing position. That has been abandoned.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

On 3/13/2019 at 2:49 PM, Oliver Clothesoff said:

But there are teams in Super League without an Academy, with poor social media presence, poor crowds etc so it should be a game wide initiative rather than some when others aren’t in a much better position.  

Just say it.....Salford

[The Parksider]

23 hours ago, fighting irish said:

"We only have the rest of this season and next before the new lower TV deal." How do you know the new deal, will be lower? 

I first saw this I think in 40/20 and again IIRC it was Phil Caplan reporting. I've seen it mentioned several times since, plus as we have been partners of SKY for 22 years it's inconceivable they would drop a lower deal on us without giving us this timely warning and time to re-organise for that much lower deal.

21 hours ago, tuutaisrambo said:

Just a hunch based on the lack of new deals Elstone has announced for SL so far and the less than impressive ones the RFL have done.......and SL league trying to take as much money away from the rest of the game as possible.

Yes indeed, Superleague started their plans for the future when they announced they were going for a 2x10 League under their control, and the rest of the clubs would stay with the RFL who themselves have no power any more, so they will have to go along with it. Immediately the Championship clubs were up in arms over the matter. I think we forget these cold hard realities  due to the constant barrage of tedious messages that the game here is soon going to expand all over the world. This clouds reality.

20 hours ago, Wakefield Ram said:

So the less successful clubs get even less money, that's going to help them achieve it next time round?  

Next year is the last year of the current SKY deal so I am afraid it's apparently worse than that. The "less successful clubs" are unlikely to be part of any deal "next time round" Superleague's 2x10 plans may have been shelved after Chalmers attacked the Super league bosses, but the cat was already out of the bag, and this announcement further confirms radical changes in which the top 20 clubs who actively help develop the game here, especially players, will get a place in the 2x10 and funding accordingly.

Given what little money Salford had, has gone on 25 really rather good players whose deeds will find them offers from other clubs in time, plus no academy would seem to discount them. That Kurdi at Newcastle is now putting his hands in his rather deep pockets would seem to be him reacting to a need to get his club up the leagues and into that top twenty.

A ticket to SL1/SL2 is available to anyone who seriously develops players. All through the phoney baloney clubs debate I have repeated the SL bosses words they first spoke to Toulouse. "You need to develop quality players and find a TV deal (to be an asset to Superleague)". It is clear Lenegan will deliver an (albeit lower) English TV deal of sorts, and those clubs who will get a share have to develop players. 

It's clear those with academies (and also foundations) like Hull/HKR (joint academy) Leeds, Castleford, Wakefield, Bradford, Fartown, Widnes, Wigan, Warrington, Saints, London and  Newcastle are automatic picks for the 20, and this leaves seven places open for the other clubs to fight for. Who is going to step up and "earn" their central funding 2021 onwards? 

To me this is fascinating. I believe Argyles stake in London is a ticket to SL in 2021 when the failed American dream will be abandoned.  It is hard to imagine if the game effectively becomes 20 clubs "guest clubs" who do not develop players, will be in it over members clubs and this puts a cloud over Les Catalans and Toulouse, with the former disappointing SL clubs by having a largely non-French first team after 12 years, and do they still have an academy?

Will there be any radical moves from Championship clubs who may face oblivion outside a 2x10 SL with no funding? Could the Cumbria merger finally happen? Could Batley and Dewsbury join forces? Bradford and Keighley? Will Beaumont make some sort of a move? Could Oldham, Swinton, Salford and Rochdale link with Manchester Rangers to form one club?  what may York, Fev and Fax do???

In one way it will be sad and worrying to see the contract drop, but I welcome reality coming back to this board, and some cracking real world discussions as the clock ticks down to a radically new Superleague Era under Elstones plans....

[Wakefield Ram]

19 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

I first saw this I think in 40/20 and again IIRC it was Phil Caplan reporting. I've seen it mentioned several times since, plus as we have been partners of SKY for 22 years it's inconceivable they would drop a lower deal on us without giving us this timely warning and time to re-organise for that much lower deal.

Yes indeed, Superleague started their plans for the future when they announced they were going for a 2x10 League under their control, and the rest of the clubs would stay with the RFL who themselves have no power any more, so they will have to go along with it. Immediately the Championship clubs were up in arms over the matter. I think we forget these cold hard realities  due to the constant barrage of tedious messages that the game here is soon going to expand all over the world. This clouds reality.

Next year is the last year of the current SKY deal so I am afraid it's apparently worse than that. The "less successful clubs" are unlikely to be part of any deal "next time round" Superleague's 2x10 plans may have been shelved after Chalmers attacked the Super league bosses, but the cat was already out of the bag, and this announcement further confirms radical changes in which the top 20 clubs who actively help develop the game here, especially players, will get a place in the 2x10 and funding accordingly.

Given what little money Salford had, has gone on 25 really rather good players whose deeds will find them offers from other clubs in time, plus no academy would seem to discount them. That Kurdi at Newcastle is now putting his hands in his rather deep pockets would seem to be him reacting to a need to get his club up the leagues and into that top twenty.

A ticket to SL1/SL2 is available to anyone who seriously develops players. All through the phoney baloney clubs debate I have repeated the SL bosses words they first spoke to Toulouse. "You need to develop quality players and find a TV deal (to be an asset to Superleague)". It is clear Lenegan will deliver an (albeit lower) English TV deal of sorts, and those clubs who will get a share have to develop players. 

It's clear those with academies (and also foundations) like Hull/HKR (joint academy) Leeds, Castleford, Wakefield, Bradford, Fartown, Widnes, Wigan, Warrington, Saints, London and  Newcastle are automatic picks for the 20, and this leaves seven places open for the other clubs to fight for. Who is going to step up and "earn" their central funding 2021 onwards? 

To me this is fascinating. I believe Argyles stake in London is a ticket to SL in 2021 when the failed American dream will be abandoned.  It is hard to imagine if the game effectively becomes 20 clubs "guest clubs" who do not develop players, will be in it over members clubs and this puts a cloud over Les Catalans and Toulouse, with the former disappointing SL clubs by having a largely non-French first team after 12 years, and do they still have an academy?

Will there be any radical moves from Championship clubs who may face oblivion outside a 2x10 SL with no funding? Could the Cumbria merger finally happen? Could Batley and Dewsbury join forces? Bradford and Keighley? Will Beaumont make some sort of a move? Could Oldham, Swinton, Salford and Rochdale link with Manchester Rangers to form one club?  what may York, Fev and Fax do???

In one way it will be sad and worrying to see the contract drop, but I welcome reality coming back to this board, and some cracking real world discussions as the clock ticks down to a radically new Superleague Era under Elstones plans....

So by further reducing the number of players, this will improve player quality? Where will SL clubs send their fringe players on DR? If this is a plan to further shrink the professional game, then the whole game will lose.

[fighting irish]

Nothing stays the same for long, in Rugby League, does it?

[fighting irish]

Well that's a very interesting hypothesis

[Davo5]

1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

Things do, very much so. We are obsessed with minor cosmetic changes and pretending they are fundamental. 

Super league was supposedly a new era. The start of a new epoch. It was basically exactly the same but a bit warmer and a team in Paris for a little bit.

High hopes for next season though. ROB elstone has promised us big changes and a game that looks different in 2020.

My bet,  a 3 year TV deal is signed early, all SL games broadcast, more money in total but less per game and if not expansion to 14 with Toronto and Toulouse a public ambition to get there soon stated, 

Plus an expanded or vastly remodelled WCC/WCS, a nines comp or two, and big changes to the SC

I think we are, quietly, going to see a revolution far bigger than the creation of SL over the next few years. 

Edited just to add, championship clubs will need to adapt massively to survive that change. Whether that's to remodel themselves as part-time community hubs of RL with a business model commensurate with a position in the middle of that pyramid or create an attractive product that can be packaged in a way that can realise revenue  

 

And Nigel Wood will win slimmer of the year after running a sub 2 hr London Marathon win,Ralph Rimmer will win the new series of the Apprentice and become Sir Alan Sugars new head of strategic planning and we witness Brian Barwick emerging from his wine cellar after a 3 year hiatus.

[deluded pom?]

3 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Edited just to add, championship clubs will need to adapt massively to survive that change. Whether that's to remodel themselves as part-time community hubs of RL with a business model commensurate with a position in the middle of that pyramid or create an attractive product that can be packaged in a way that can realise revenue  

 

Will it actually be a pyramid IYO or will it be a glass ceiling?

[deluded pom?]

1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

I think a 'glass ceiling' exists under any structure. We have a pure P+R structure now and Swinton aren't ever going to win SL.

Do I think there will be some sort of official line drawn. Yes, there already is. The question hasn't ever been should a line be drawn simply where

Where is the line currently? Do you mean minimum standards which seem to change like the wind?

[The Parksider]

23 hours ago, Wakefield Ram said:

So by further reducing the number of players, this will improve player quality? Where will SL clubs send their fringe players on DR? If this is a plan to further shrink the professional game, then the whole game will lose.

If the TV deal ends 2021 then fair enough I'm a year out, but that does not change all the indications the new deal will be a lot lower.

I wasn't out with the fact SL started an attempt to move to 10 clubs in the top division for the future LAST YEAR as it was all over the press last year. It's just an opinion on watching Leeds and London last night that we certainly ain't going to 14 or 16 clubs.   Nice to hear from Maurice Lyndsay on backchat that putting 30 players on a plane and sending them a few thousand miles away isn't expansion.

I'd guess SL2 will exist to support SL1 because it will only be a league of clubs who do not have the 10,000 crowds or the very rich and benevolent owners to be SL1 clubs and run at a high professional level . They may well be used for DR, or maybe even the 10 SL1 clubs will finally run reserves? (I think such a competition would be very interesting to watch and follow) These are decisions to be fine tuned, but it was certainly the case when they dropped to 12 from 14, people like Jamie Peacock said it should have been 10 to produce a high quality intensive league for entertaining the TV fans who pay their subs to SKY who pay for us to be professional. No TV deal no game.

Nobody can get away from the cold hard fact that we are short of quality players, but many do as they want to play fantasy RL with clubs all over the world. Even Phil Caplan was doing this on backchat, and it's a weird phenomenon. But again the cold hard fact that faces us for 2021 when decisions need to be in place and ready for 2022 is that charity certainly begins at home and clubs with "Guest Status" are going to be last in the queue for places, this links with a couple of notorious dreamers being linked to buying into "Member" clubs here, but the bigger issue to come is do we continue to facilitate France. Mo Lyndsay himself appeared to say the problem there is they don't produce enough quality players

The bottom line in the real world discussions on the future is about producing quality players.........and contributing value to the TV deal so even though Perth WA may well produce players, they still need to produce a TV deal!

[Gooleboy]

21 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Things do, very much so. We are obsessed with minor cosmetic changes and pretending they are fundamental. 

Super league was supposedly a new era. The start of a new epoch. It was basically exactly the same but a bit warmer and a team in Paris for a little bit.

High hopes for next season though. ROB elstone has promised us big changes and a game that looks different in 2020.

My bet,  a 3 year TV deal is signed early, all SL games broadcast, more money in total but less per game and if not expansion to 14 with Toronto and Toulouse a public ambition to get there soon stated, 

Plus an expanded or vastly remodelled WCC/WCS, a nines comp or two, and big changes to the SC

I think we are, quietly, going to see a revolution far bigger than the creation of SL over the next few years. 

Edited just to add, championship clubs will need to adapt massively to survive that change. Whether that's to remodel themselves as part-time community hubs of RL with a business model commensurate with a position in the middle of that pyramid or create an attractive product that can be packaged in a way that can realise revenue  

 

So you think Rob Elstone is going to do all this? His performance up to now hasn't been anything special.

[hindle xiii]

On 3/13/2019 at 7:13 PM, paulwalker71 said:

Still never mind, when we don't get promoted this season - the SL clubs, including Salford, will be able to swoop in and sign up all the great Academy prospects that we have been developing...

Because Huddersfield will have been relegated?

[Gooleboy]

2 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Yes, its not that much.

You seem to have real faith in him, although he hasn't done much yet.