wakey loan

[tms]

been reported council giving wakey a loan  to buy and redevelop bell vue

Wakefield Trinity is set to be handed a council loan of more than £3m to buy its Belle Vue ground, it's been revealed toda

The council's deputy leader Denise Jeffery said: "We have a proud history of rugby league in the Wakefield District and I’m pleased that this loan will help Wakefield Trinity secure the ownership of the stadium and provide a catalyst for development.

guess council tax going up to pay for it

[MADREDNIGE]

Typicall, we had to sort ourselves out. Thank goodness for the fantastic volunteers. 

[gazza77]

Given the £1m + we already owe, would we really want to take on more debt if the council were to offer us the same?

[Maureen T-k]

31 minutes ago, MADREDNIGE said:

Typicall, we had to sort ourselves out. Thank goodness for the fantastic volunteers. 

If you remember Wakefield council bought our Stadium off us at one time, then eventually sold it back to us at a very reduced rate!!!

[MADREDNIGE]

Right, thank you, my memory is not what it was lol. 

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

Great business by Wakey, they could've bought it for a fraction of that a few years ago.

[saddleworth]

16 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

Great business by Wakey, they could've bought it for a fraction of that a few years ago.

I would make an educated guess that Wakey have received more public and supporters monies over the years, than most RL clubs. Considering the state of the ground and the cost of introducing the safety standards etc., I think it is akin to ploughing money into an old banger to get it through the MOT. Meanwhile the council tax increases by almost 3%. 

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

1 hour ago, saddleworth said:

I would make an educated guess that Wakey have received more public and supporters monies over the years, than most RL clubs. Considering the state of the ground and the cost of introducing the safety standards etc., I think it is akin to ploughing money into an old banger to get it through the MOT. Meanwhile the council tax increases by almost 3%. 

What isn't revealed afaik is where the other £millions are going to come from to build a (decent) stadium and I'm not sure that there'll be many investors falling over themselves to provide the funds.

The other thing to consider is that such an act also opens up the possibility of a council loan to help get another planned new stadium off the ground......

[Private Baldrick]

16 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

What isn't revealed afaik is where the other £millions are going to come from to build a (decent) stadium and I'm not sure that there'll be many investors falling over themselves to provide the funds.

The other thing to consider is that such an act also opens up the possibility of a council loan to help get another planned new stadium off the ground......

According to other forum threads, did I not read that the C*s ground is a freebie for them, being built by the developers and handed over?

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

5 minutes ago, Private Baldrick said:

According to other forum threads, did I not read that the C*s ground is a freebie for them, being built by the developers and handed over?

Yes (well it'll cost them £1), but it isn't going to be built until the developers know they will get their money back from the retail side. Now, if someone were to provide that money upfront without the need to have the retail.......

[Maureen T-k]

13 minutes ago, Private Baldrick said:

According to other forum threads, did I not read that the C*s ground is a freebie for them, being built by the developers and handed over?

The developers have already invested over 30 million into the whole project 

[roversspud]

19 hours ago, MADREDNIGE said:

Right, thank you, my memory is not what it was lol. 

you old fuddy-duddy!

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

31 minutes ago, Maureen T-k said:

The developers have already invested over 30 million into the whole project 

And most of that will be for the land which can be sold on if the retail park falls through recouping much of the outlay.

[Maureen T-k]

9 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

And most of that will be for the land which can be sold on if the retail park falls through recouping much of the outlay.

The retail park has 50% been taken up by stores with others showing a interest, so I’d say that’s going ahead, there’s also the road infrastructure in that amount too. 

[fevtom]

17 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

Yes (well it'll cost them £1), but it isn't going to be built

Edited for accuracy.

I don't know much about the situation but as I understand it the developers refused to stick to their side of the deal and therefor are coming up with problems getting permission to build more at Newmarket. Is it likely that they could reach a settlement whereby they provide something towards the cost of redeveloping Belle Vue that would cost them less than the original brand new stadium would?

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

20 minutes ago, fevtom said:

Edited for accuracy.

I don't know much about the situation but as I understand it the developers refused to stick to their side of the deal and therefor are coming up with problems getting permission to build more at Newmarket. Is it likely that they could reach a settlement whereby they provide something towards the cost of redeveloping Belle Vue that would cost them less than the original brand new stadium would?

My post referred to the Cas ground. 

As for the council loan, rumour is it's on an interest only basis for Wakefield with the plan to get the capital back from Yorkcourt as they develop Newmarket. Also rumour that a further loan (under the same conditions?) will be made available to WT for the redevelopment work. I only hope the council are securing the loan against the actual land being bought and not against some other assets.

[Kirmonds pouch]

On 3/13/2019 at 9:34 PM, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

Great business by Wakey, they could've bought it for a fraction of that a few years ago.

Thats correct, the whole think is a scandal especially the Councils involvement. However the new regime at Wakefield are sound and are doing wonders salvaging what they can from the Newmarket fiasco.

However lets get two things straight before the whole thing gets twisted and mis-informed.

The Council are giving us nothing or certainly not in this case - the money is a loan to be paid back at a commercial rate with the ground as security. WMDC can't lose on this. Also legally they can't give private companies taxpayers money, what they can do is invest and this is a relatively safe bet.

Secondly the land was valued by the developer at 3 million, almost six times what he paid for it four years ago - he didn't as far as I'm led to believe get that amount, not even close.

What happens next will be interesting, whats just happened is fairly straight forward.

[Blind side johnny]

On 3/27/2019 at 6:16 PM, Kirmonds pouch said:

Thats correct, the whole think is a scandal especially the Councils involvement. However the new regime at Wakefield are sound and are doing wonders salvaging what they can from the Newmarket fiasco.

However lets get two things straight before the whole thing gets twisted and mis-informed.

The Council are giving us nothing or certainly not in this case - the money is a loan to be paid back at a commercial rate with the ground as security. WMDC can't lose on this. Also legally they can't give private companies taxpayers money, what they can do is invest and this is a relatively safe bet.

Secondly the land was valued by the developer at 3 million, almost six times what he paid for it four years ago - he didn't as far as I'm led to believe get that amount, not even close.

What happens next will be interesting, whats just happened is fairly straight forward.

Repayment at a commercial rate is interesting. Does that repayment commence immediately or will the loan be accruing interest at that commercial rate whilst payments are awaited? Anything else is just free money.

[Kirmonds pouch]

Starts immediately. Remember we paid rent before that, which is what this replaces. I believe the length of the loan is quite long and that the monthly repayments are lower than what we were paying rent.

I have no doubt this deal is as favourable as its legally possible to be to the club and so it should be considering how badly the people of Wakefield were so let down over Newmarket by WMDC. At the end of the day handing back a bit of earth that nobody can economically re-develop isn't much when you consider the value of newmarket as a commercial entity to both WMDC and YorkCourt. 

I guarantee that that both the above will make far more out of any deals that transpire than WTRLFC ever will. Whilst in the meantime the rate payers of Wakefield won't get what was promised by a government enquiry and will instead have to depend on their cash strapped RL club to provide a community stadium all be it one that will inevitably be inferior.

Out of interest how did Dewsbury end up getting a stadium built for them?

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

On 3/27/2019 at 6:16 PM, Kirmonds pouch said:

Thats correct, the whole think is a scandal especially the Councils involvement. However the new regime at Wakefield are sound and are doing wonders salvaging what they can from the Newmarket fiasco.

However lets get two things straight before the whole thing gets twisted and mis-informed.

The Council are giving us nothing or certainly not in this case - the money is a loan to be paid back at a commercial rate with the ground as security. WMDC can't lose on this. Also legally they can't give private companies taxpayers money, what they can do is invest and this is a relatively safe bet.

Secondly the land was valued by the developer at 3 million, almost six times what he paid for it four years ago - he didn't as far as I'm led to believe get that amount, not even close.

What happens next will be interesting, whats just happened is fairly straight forward.

So the council have lent the club £3m+ secured against land that isn't worth that much and you say that they can't lose even if the club default. How's that work then?

[The Grinder]

I find the ‘commercial rate’ interesting in that I suspect that trinity are getting a very favourable interest rate given that their credit rating, like Fev’s, will be shot. And therefore if the rate is not around the 20% mark then it is not a rate trinity could get commercially. And at that sort of level to make the loan repayments less than the previous rent will mean the term of the loan is long term say 20 years or so, may be longer. 

 

[The Grinder]

15 hours ago, Kirmonds pouch said:

I guarantee that that both the above will make far more out of any deals that transpire than WTRLFC ever will. Whilst in the meantime the rate payers of Wakefield won't get what was promised by a government enquiry and will instead have to depend on their cash strapped RL club to provide a community stadium all be it one that will inevitably be inferior.

So Trinity will be improving the stadium as part of the deal?

[Blind side johnny]

16 hours ago, Kirmonds pouch said:

Starts immediately. Remember we paid rent before that, which is what this replaces. I believe the length of the loan is quite long and that the monthly repayments are lower than what we were paying rent.

I have no doubt this deal is as favourable as its legally possible to be to the club and so it should be considering how badly the people of Wakefield were so let down over Newmarket by WMDC. At the end of the day handing back a bit of earth that nobody can economically re-develop isn't much when you consider the value of newmarket as a commercial entity to both WMDC and YorkCourt. 

I guarantee that that both the above will make far more out of any deals that transpire than WTRLFC ever will. Whilst in the meantime the rate payers of Wakefield won't get what was promised by a government enquiry and will instead have to depend on their cash strapped RL club to provide a community stadium all be it one that will inevitably be inferior.

Out of interest how did Dewsbury end up getting a stadium built for them?

We sold the old ground and used the proceeds to build the new stadium - no council money was involved. HTH

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

1 hour ago, The Grinder said:

I find the ‘commercial rate’ interesting in that I suspect that trinity are getting a very favourable interest rate given that their credit rating, like Fev’s, will be shot. And therefore if the rate is not around the 20% mark then it is not a rate trinity could get commercially. And at that sort of level to make the loan repayments less than the previous rent will mean the term of the loan is long term say 20 years or so, may be longer. 

 

When the original idea of buying (and redeveloping) Belle Vue was first mooted last year, the Council were going to loan money secured against assets they own - because as you say the interest rate they would get would be significantly lower than that available to WT -  and then loan the money on.

[Kirmonds pouch]

4 hours ago, The Grinder said:

I find the ‘commercial rate’ interesting in that I suspect that trinity are getting a very favourable interest rate given that their credit rating, like Fev’s, will be shot. And therefore if the rate is not around the 20% mark then it is not a rate trinity could get commercially. And at that sort of level to make the loan repayments less than the previous rent will mean the term of the loan is long term say 20 years or so, may be longer. 

 

This is the kind of stuff I can't do with. Trinity have an excellent credit rating thanks to Carter and have been in the black for a number of years. I don't know what state Fev are in but we are ok. 

The commercial rate refers to what the Council would get if they put the cash into safe investments like a bank or building society. These rates of interest are around 1-2%. WMDC are not a bank and are clearly not lending at commercial rates, I think you're being quite ridiculous there.

WMDC cannot misuse tax payers money, ie give it away but they can use it to support organisations that they feel offer something to the community so long as the loans are safe, happens all the time.

However the real issue here is just how lightly WMDC are getting off. They have allowed the rate payers of Wakefield to be ripped off by a developer who promised a new Community stadium in a Section 106 agreement withe the Secretary of State in 2012. The developer Yorkcourt now hold vast tracts of land with planning permissions worth millions granted to them in the agreement which they are developing piecemeal whilst avoiding the stadium build using a number of loopholes the Council missed in a total failure to do their job properly and safeguard the ratepayers of the WMDC.

Whatever favourable deal you may wish to imagine we might have made its nothing to what has potentially been lost.

That said last month the Stadium Trust successfully stopped Yorkcourt getting any further planning passed until the Stadium is built. Days later the BV is suddenly ours, why because the council is running scared due to their gross dereliction of duty. 

You don't need to be a genius to work out where any further development monies will come from. Yorkcourt will have to cough up to the trust if they want it to stop blocking them at which point I'm led to believe the ground will go from the club to the trust which will then re-develop BV into a community stadium.

This will be a victory of sorts in that it will at least allow Trinity and all the community operations it runs to operate at a ground that will just about be fit for purpose. However Trinity fans are not kidding themselves, we and the ratepayers in general will end up with a facility that will be nowhere near what we were promised in both funding terms and full facilities - its a fob off but its probably now the best we can hope for.

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