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How long for France to do a Tonga?


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Depends how you look at it:

Tongan-born players in NRL Round 1: Solomone Kata

French-born players in NRL Round 1: ---------------------

So they're only one player behind Tonga.

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you never talk about the French league! But our championship proved that it was not so bad to discover, formed and grow players!
If our championship improves and structure a little more to get closer to the level of championship, France will be more competitive.
The problem with the Dragons and Toulouse is that they vampirize Elite clubs, our supporters think only Dragons, the federation has become less powerful than one club that does not even evolve in its championship. This is not new (I had said a few seasons ago during a Rugby Leagu World report). As our championship is less and less attractive, we attract less young people and the base of our pyramid is smaller and smaller!
it's a perverse effect of the development of the Dragons and soon Toulouse.

www.fcl13.fr FCL XIII - Lezignan Corbieres Rugby League

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4 hours ago, fcl said:

you never talk about the French league! But our championship proved that it was not so bad to discover, formed and grow players!
If our championship improves and structure a little more to get closer to the level of championship, France will be more competitive.
The problem with the Dragons and Toulouse is that they vampirize Elite clubs, our supporters think only Dragons, the federation has become less powerful than one club that does not even evolve in its championship. This is not new (I had said a few seasons ago during a Rugby Leagu World report). As our championship is less and less attractive, we attract less young people and the base of our pyramid is smaller and smaller!
it's a perverse effect of the development of the Dragons and soon Toulouse.

 

4 hours ago, fcl said:

We must also stop with the heritage players who artificially mask our weaknesses and really make development.

Thank you for your honesty and obviously spoken from someone at the sharp end who sees what is unfolding, those words will probably close this thread fantasy is better discussed on this site, realism is somewhat frowned upon.

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6 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Its strange, and seemingly unnecessary in my opinion that the toulouse broncos and st esteve in their current format are necessary or if they are beneficial for the french leagues or even Dragons and Toulouse.

Shouldnt all sides have that relationship with them? is it necessary to take players from a club to a secondary club then to Toulouse and Les Catalans. Shouldnt the whole of the french league be that pyramid.

And i think that we should look at what comes back from Toulouse and Les Catalans and how we leverage the increased visibility and prestige of Les Catalans back to the rest of France.

Yes it is. But just have a look at the name of the league: 'elite 1'. It can't be more misleading than that. It's not the french Elite anymore. As ist stand, it 's the third french league actually.

Theorically, the Elite 1 should first be rebranded and then considered as a feeder league for the professionnal teams. Unfortnatly, I believe many people are not quite ready for that.

It's also complicated considing that french RL has no say at all in what actually constitues its elite (the SL and to a much lesser extent the Championsip) and has no perspective whatsoever in what it could look like 10 or 20 years from now.

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13 hours ago, The Parksider said:

If you are saying international French players can be developed in Australia you are delusional, explain the process of how you find these French heritage people who are most likely predisposed to 1. Soccer and 2. Union, get them playing RL and then get them good enough to play International RL? You win the prize for creating the biggest ever fantasy on here. Don't just duck it? answer it, it's a debate site.

Oh Parky, you've picked the wrong fight here.

I founded the El Salvador Rugby League. If there is a nation out there that was any less disposed to playing RL I'd like to see them. I've been able to put together a team of Salvadorans in Australia and a seperate one in the USA. I'm also putting together a Puerto Rican team in the USA.

Colombia has a team of all Colombian born players in Australia.

All those I've mentioned are without any money. We make a couple grand in sponsorship a year that doesn't cover costs.

Soccer and Union hardly even exist in Australia. It's very easy to convert them, especially union players who see it as basically the same thing.

If you have access to registration records you can find someone's heritage. I'd assume the French RL could work out a deal with the QRL and NSWRL.

There won't be a stack of new players but you could develop some handy players for French RL with a little cash and know-how.

new rise.jpg

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4 minutes ago, Pulga said:

Oh Parky, you've picked the wrong fight here.

I founded the El Salvador Rugby League. If there is a nation out there that was any less disposed to playing RL I'd like to see them. I've been able to put together a team of Salvadorans in Australia and a seperate one in the USA. I'm also putting together a Puerto Rican team in the USA.

Colombia has a team of all Colombian born players in Australia.

All those I've mentioned are without any money. We make a couple grand in sponsorship a year that doesn't cover costs.

Soccer and Union hardly even exist in Australia. It's very easy to convert them, especially union players who see it as basically the same thing.

If you have access to registration records you can find someone's heritage. I'd assume the French RL could work out a deal with the QRL and NSWRL.

There won't be a stack of new players but you could develop some handy players for French RL with a little cash and know-how.

Hear hear, Pulga!

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On 3/16/2019 at 5:50 PM, Bert1 said:

If Toulouse got promoted in the near future how long would it take France to become Tier 1ish level? 5-10 years?

Well it won't happen if there's not french clubs in SL, that's the only real certainty.

 

 

 

2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:  Non-Political

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Oxford said:

Well it won't happen if there's not french clubs in SL, that's the only real certainty.

 

 

 

Indeed and it's certainly not going to happen with just Catalans being the sole Super League team either.

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On 3/18/2019 at 9:46 PM, Pulga said:

Oh Parky, you've picked the wrong fight here.

I founded the El Salvador Rugby League. If there is a nation out there that was any less disposed to playing RL I'd like to see them. I've been able to put together a team of Salvadorans in Australia and a separate one in the USA. I'm also putting together a Puerto Rican team in the USA.Colombia has a team of all Colombian born players in Australia.

If you have access to registration records you can find someone's heritage. I'd assume the French RL could work out a deal with the QRL and NSWRL. There won't be a stack of new players but you could develop some handy players for French RL with a little cash and know-how.

I'm afraid you've changed the goal posts.

We clearly have been discussing the (sad) failure of professional RL in France. The word here is professional or as the SL bosses state quality players. Players who can compete against GB, NZ and Australia for a "Four nations"  top class international RL set up which was always the plan, that could go on to inspire more French people playing, especially quality athletes who could go on the be quality SL professionals. It would be a commercial lever as well securing a possible French TV deal.

I am very impressed at your Bob8 like ability to enthuse and organise Rugby lads to play RL in places all over the world, but this has nothing to do with France's ability to produce a Quality Superleague set up in which the dream is Les Catalans and Toulouse become regulars in Superleague playing out their games with predominantly French players who then manage to seriously compete with other professional RL nations such that they get a TV deal to expand the commercial base of Superleague and expand the professional playing pool, in a fashion in which two English Superleague clubs do not have to be binned off to make way for them.

This is the argument and you have just pulled away from it, and ignored it.

In the USA they have created a semi professional league, of clubs that are getting established and doing a good job, but this has nothing to do with the ludicrous idea of a Superleague level New York. Such a club would not find a US TV deal to share with Superleague or develop quality professional players (that's what we are talking about) either.

And to let them in we have to dump Huddersfield - it's a lunatic idea.

I'm afraid you picked the wrong fight here my friend

On 3/18/2019 at 9:11 AM, fcl said:

you never talk about the French league! But our championship proved that it was not so bad to discover, formed and grow players!If our championship improves and structure a little more to get closer to the level of championship, France will be more competitive.The problem with the Dragons and Toulouse is that they vampirize Elite clubs, our supporters think only Dragons, the federation has become less powerful than one club that does not even evolve in its championship. This is not new (I had said a few seasons ago during a Rugby League World report). As our championship is less and less attractive, we attract less young people and the base of our pyramid is smaller and smaller!

This is such a good honest real world post you deserve a medal.

Once again Catalans have gone backwards in terms of the number of French players in the first team over the 13 years they have been about, and NO France are not producing more and better players - probably less as you indicate, and allowing Toulouse to become an SL club will only lead to them binning French players and buying up players from England and Australia etc.

These clubs would not add anything to the game here unless some French TV channel will pay a few £Million to televise the French Derby people are wetting themselves over. It's an emotional response, it has no business base.

I have to say it again that the expansion of the game is two things. More quality players and more TV money. It is not two or three sell out French derbies. It is not shrinking the English base of Superleague.

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On 3/18/2019 at 6:16 PM, The Parksider said:

If you are saying international French players can be developed in Australia you are delusional, explain the process of how you find these French heritage people who are most likely predisposed to 1. Soccer and 2. Union, get them playing RL and then get them good enough to play International RL? You win the prize for creating the biggest ever fantasy on here. Don't just duck it? answer it, it's a debate site.

 

Here are the "goalposts". If I've moved them, you've blown them to pieces. You've made a career of strawmen arguments and trying to pigeonhole certain aspects of debates. My favourite is: "The RFL's definition of expansion is blah blah blah". That's terrific if you want to use the RFL's definition of expansion... Unfortunately for you, this is real life and we will use the actual definition of the word in all its facets.

 

Back on to the subject.

I don't really need to repeat myself. The population is there to develop French players in a country where league is huge.

I'd love to hear your obviously superior insights though...

new rise.jpg

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On 3/18/2019 at 9:26 PM, Gambass said:

It's also complicated considing that french RL has no say at all in what actually constitues its elite (the SL and to a much lesser extent the Championsip) and has no perspective whatsoever in what it could look like 10 or 20 years from now.

Palanque wasn't present I think at Wembley to see the Dragons triumphant. Unlike the French Federation President Larrat in 2007 when they lost to St Helens. The latter approved of the French clubs involvement across the Channel but insisted that the Dragons maintained a presence in Elite 1. Larrat's successor Zaluendo didn't seem to develop a good relationship with Guasch unfortunately for whatever reason. From the RFL nothing really since the Lewis mandate. Do Ralph Rimmer and Marc Palanque correspond regularly? 

"It involves matters much greater than drafting the new rules...the original and existing games have their own powerful appeal to their players and public and have the sentiments which history inspires"  - Harold 'Jersey' Flegg 1933

"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."  - Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

Si tu( Remi Casty) devais envoyer un fax au Président Guasch? " Un grand bravo pour ce que vous avez fait,et merci de m 'avoir embarqué dans cette aventure"

gallery_02-am31503_5b827265940b7_.jpg

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I think Parksider should consider Les Dracs add alot to SL. They consistently draw good TV ratings and have if nothing else saved French RL from further decline. 

They make a good away day for fans and as a TV product, we need exciting teams. No disrespect meant however the likes of Widnes, Huddersfield and Salford while all important teams do not draw the neutral viewer like Catalans do. 

I only got back into SL as I saw Les Dracs and thought good a team that actually has a big crowd at games and isn't a northern side, I can relate to them and support them. 

The likes of Gigot, Casty, Fages and Escare, Garcia would be in the top 100 SL players, so this is a big improvement on 20 years ago for France. 

France being able to compete with England or NZ or Oz? 

Wadges would have to go up alot as French union pays very very well and France despite having a large population has a smaller pool of athletes who would suit RL as frankly French teams in general  Dont train as hard as we do or the Aussies do. 

France have got better at RL. Just the big 3 have got alot better. So effectively the gap has remained if not grown. 

I'm all for 2 French sides in SL with a commitment to 9 of the 17 being French qualified week in week out. Hopefully in time France get better at international level. 

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On 3/19/2019 at 8:46 AM, Pulga said:

Oh Parky, you've picked the wrong fight here.

I founded the El Salvador Rugby League. If there is a nation out there that was any less disposed to playing RL I'd like to see them. I've been able to put together a team of Salvadorans in Australia and a seperate one in the USA. I'm also putting together a Puerto Rican team in the USA.

Colombia has a team of all Colombian born players in Australia.

All those I've mentioned are without any money. We make a couple grand in sponsorship a year that doesn't cover costs.

Soccer and Union hardly even exist in Australia. It's very easy to convert them, especially union players who see it as basically the same thing.

If you have access to registration records you can find someone's heritage. I'd assume the French RL could work out a deal with the QRL and NSWRL.

There won't be a stack of new players but you could develop some handy players for French RL with a little cash and know-how.

Hardly Exist in Australia? Is that like the Wallabies and the Socceroos the only real National football teams we have in Oz? Is that like soccer that has 10 times the kids and adult participants than Rugby League? Is that like the ALeague a true National sporting competition unlike the 2 state NRL??

Yea Rugby Union and Soccer are hardly existent ????

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46 minutes ago, Chris Reid said:

Hardly Exist in Australia? Is that like the Wallabies and the Socceroos the only real National football teams we have in Oz? Is that like soccer that has 10 times the kids and adult participants than Rugby League? Is that like the ALeague a true National sporting competition unlike the 2 state NRL??

Yea Rugby Union and Soccer are hardly existent ????

Its actually the three most populous States, a Territory and another Nation.

Talent is secondary to whether players are confident.

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21 hours ago, audois said:

Palanque wasn't present I think at Wembley to see the Dragons triumphant. Unlike the French Federation President Larrat in 2007 when they lost to St Helens. The latter approved of the French clubs involvement across the Channel but insisted that the Dragons maintained a presence in Elite 1. Larrat's successor Zaluendo didn't seem to develop a good relationship with Guasch unfortunately for whatever reason. From the RFL nothing really since the Lewis mandate. Do Ralph Rimmer and Marc Palanque correspond regularly? 

Is Palanque Still active? I don’t seem to read any news reports or forum posts about him any more!

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56 minutes ago, Allora said:

Its actually the three most populous States, a Territory and another Nation.

Queensland, NSW is Correct.

ACT is Soccer and AFL and Victoria is AFL. The Melbourne storms junior sides and feeder clubs come fresh out of.. Queensland. Even after 20 years of existence.

Poor old Pulga has sold you blokes a beauty

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On 3/21/2019 at 11:51 AM, Jim from Oz said:

Is Palanque Still active? I don’t seem to read any news reports or forum posts about him any more!

Jim - there is link now between the Dragons and the Federation with Khedimi's involvement. The decision by the ruling board to postpone all the games in France on 18 May to facilitate support for the Dragons match in Barcelona can only be welcomed. I still feel that something should have happened to get the Aude Cathars project back on its feet even just for a Challenge Cup entry. On the international front no signs of when  the Tricolores will be playing in 2019. Is Palanaque talking to Nigel Wood and Ralph Rimmer about these things presently. I used to see Richard Lewis in Carcassonne.

"It involves matters much greater than drafting the new rules...the original and existing games have their own powerful appeal to their players and public and have the sentiments which history inspires"  - Harold 'Jersey' Flegg 1933

"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."  - Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

Si tu( Remi Casty) devais envoyer un fax au Président Guasch? " Un grand bravo pour ce que vous avez fait,et merci de m 'avoir embarqué dans cette aventure"

gallery_02-am31503_5b827265940b7_.jpg

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I don’t understand how people can’t see that in the 90’s and early 00’s we had practically no French players playing at the top level. We now have a whole bunch and they won our two major trophies last year spread across two clubs. That is purely down to Catalans involvement in the league. 

Toulouse would increase that pool further and I’m all for it. 

Once there are 30-40+ French players playing across Super League then I’m sure the French team will improve but it takes time. Be patient people. 

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36 minutes ago, Cdd said:

I don’t understand how people can’t see that in the 90’s and early 00’s we had practically no French players playing at the top level. We now have a whole bunch and they won our two major trophies last year spread across two clubs. That is purely down to Catalans involvement in the league. 

Toulouse would increase that pool further and I’m all for it. 

Once there are 30-40+ French players playing across Super League then I’m sure the French team will improve but it takes time. Be patient people. 

Some people just see what they want to see. The facts speak for themselves.

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12 hours ago, Damien said:

Oh look a new troll. Not even the nous to disguise his first never mind second post.

I'm not a troll I'm correcting the rubbish Pulga sold you Northern Englishmen that dont know the goings on here in Australia.  It's not called being a troll

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