The 6 Nations hype...

[redsi42]

for far too long the rfl has been a shambles it’s like we’re still on dial up when every other sport has fibre.

the most important thing we could learn from 6 nations would be concistency.

[Futtocks]

6 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Yes, I don’t think the lesson to be learned is to imitate the 6N, but to play to our strengths which is games with Australia on a fixed term.

Agreed; we're not looking to copy the entire format, but look for those transferable ideas that would benefit RL.

[Damien]

30 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

A soccer 6 nations would dwarf it in its first year. Football is in a world of its own

Indeed. Football doesn't need it anyway, its far too small time when you have a whole continent and world to go at.

[Moscow01]

Rugby league is pretty much dead in Ireland, Scotland and Wales. 

Millions of people in those countries wouldn’t have a clue that they even have an international side that plays the sport. 

That has to change before we can even talk about increasing the profile of rugby league. 

[Damien]

The desire has to be there on the part of the RFL for things like this to happen. A 6 Nations is certainly out of the reach of RL for the foreseeable future but a competitive Tri-Nations with France and Wales shouldn't be. Yes it would take investment and money to get both up to speed first, with a minimum 2 Super League clubs in each, but it would ensure plenty of players and a Northern hemisphere international game. The Rugby League heritage and players, and yes RU players, are there in those countries to do this. France is very close already. Wales wouldn't be far off either if there money was there.

[Moscow01]

5 minutes ago, Damien said:

The desire has to be there on the part of the RFL for things like this to happen. A 6 Nations is certainly out of the reach of RL for the foreseeable future but a competitive Tri-Nations with France and Wales shouldn't be. Yes it would take investment and money to get both up to speed first, with a minimum 2 Super League clubs in each, but it would ensure plenty of players and a Northern hemisphere international game. The Rugby League heritage and players, and yes RU players, are there in those countries to do this. France is very close already. Wales wouldn't be far off either if there money was there.

France and Wales are light years behind England. They would stand a chance if they faced England’s third or fourth best 13. 

England are an elite nation at rugby league. France have got potential and some outstanding players. Wales have a few good individuals, but look at the players who have featured for them in recent years - a lot from the Championship and even League 1. 

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, Moscow01 said:

France and Wales are light years behind England. They would stand a chance if they faced England’s third or fourth best 13. 

England are an elite nation at rugby league. France have got potential and some outstanding players. Wales have a few good individuals, but look at the players who have featured for them in recent years - a lot from the Championship and even League 1. 

You are talking the here and now, I am not. That was quite clear in my post. I am talking about quick wins, what is achievable and what will be required to achieve it. Without the domestic steps put in place first its quite obvious that no Northern Hemisphere team can compete with England and I never said they could.

[Gerrumonside ref]

There must be a good argument for France and Wales to meet on a more regular and planned basis outside of World Cup qualification fixtures.

Whether England need to be involved yearly against either is debatable.

 

 

[Southerner80]

13 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

There must be a good argument for France and Wales to meet on a more regular and planned basis outside of World Cup qualification fixtures.

Whether England need to be involved yearly against either is debatable.

 

 

I would give both Wales and France annual games v England. Doesn't matter if England win them all, it builds a regular calendar at international level. 

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

We should have persisted with the Four Nations concept. A Four Nations every year, with the exception of World Cup years. If Australia won’t play, fine, England, France, New Zealand and Tonga would be a great tournament. The Four Nations could of become a tournament to rival the Six Nations, although it would not be as big, it could have continued to grow. 

Last seasons test series against New Zealand was very poor compared to a Four Nations tournament, as will the tests at the end of this year. 

[Cdd]

England, Australia, New Zealand, Tonga and Fiji could be every bit as competitive as a 5 nations tournament. 

 

[JCXV]

37 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

We should have persisted with the Four Nations concept. A Four Nations every year, with the exception of World Cup years. If Australia won’t play, fine, England, France, New Zealand and Tonga would be a great tournament. The Four Nations could of become a tournament to rival the Six Nations, although it would not be as big, it could have continued to grow. 

Last seasons test series against New Zealand was very poor compared to a Four Nations tournament, as will the tests at the end of this year. 

How do you get the clubs to release the players for a 6-week block of time? 
Who pays the players? 
Who pays for the support staff?
Who pays for travel, accommodation, per diem expenses?
Who covers injury insurance?
Who organises it?
Who underwrites it?
Who swallows any losses?
Who takes any profit?

It's a huge undertaking to get something like a tournament started, let alone do it every year.
 

[Damien]

12 minutes ago, JCXV said:

How do you get the clubs to release the players for a 6-week block of time? 
Who pays the players? 
Who pays for the support staff?
Who pays for travel, accommodation, per diem expenses?
Who covers injury insurance?
Who organises it?
Who underwrites it?
Who swallows any losses?
Who takes any profit?

It's a huge undertaking to get something like a tournament started, let alone do it every year.
 

Its been done before and can easily be done again. Those types of tournaments certainly aren't new in Rugby League. The biggest issue is the NRL and their meddling in and hindering the international game.

[JCXV]

2 minutes ago, Damien said:

Its been done before and can easily be done again. Those types of tournaments certainly aren't new in Rugby League. The biggest issue is the NRL and their meddling in and hindering the international game.

I doubt 'easily' will have anything to do with it. 

[Damien]

1 minute ago, JCXV said:

I doubt 'easily' will have anything to do with it. 

I guess you would.

[bazzzz65]

2 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

We can't just play australia all the time, and the international game cant simply exist to beat Australia.

a trick we possibly missed was to stick with the magic weekend as a club comp. We could have sold a 5 nations concept to Ireland, Wales and france instead of the additional magic game. Possibly including the exiles to create  3 games.

Kick off the season with a triple header in Cardiff under the roof, May Day bank holiday weekend in Dublin, Mid-July in france, August Bank Holiday in Scotland, pre-autumn internationals at St James Park.

I m reasonably comfortable moneywise but I don t think I could afford to go to all those events.

[JCXV]

4 minutes ago, Damien said:

I guess you would.

 

I would say the same for any sport looking to organise a 4-nation tournament played over 6 weeks. Look at accommodation just in isolation; 4 teams with 40 players and staff for 6 weeks is 6,720 hotel nights. Even at just £50 a night that is £336K! It's a massive undertaking where 'easy' has no part to play. 

 

[Trojan]

3 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Of course they would. Football has a level of penetration into the public consciousness in all of those countries that every other sport dreams of.

In fact I would go as far as to say that if football instituted a 6 nations concept then the popularity of the RU 6 nations would drop drastically. The niche that the 6 nations fills is that sporting rivalry between those nations and, like anything, it can only fill that niche because football doesnt. A lot of the national fervour in Wales and Scotland and Ireland and France exists is just looking for a home. Its to RU's credit that they have given it a home but if football wanted to be that, it would be. And much bigger.

The best ever 6 nations viewing figures were about 9.5m. England in the football can get viewing figures upwards of 25m, france around 20m, Italy average around 7m. When Ireland played france in 2016 their Audience share was 83%.

They dropped the "home international championship" years ago as irrelevant.  Can't see France wanting to play in it, and of course in soccer Ireland play as two separate countries.

[Bolton Leyther]

The key to any international calendar or event taking off is it being littered with proper contests, where enough doubt about who will win exists for intrigue in the competition to be maintained. The only thing that could offer that in the here and now is, as others have noted, a Four Nations tournament with Australia, England, Tonga and New Zealand. Or possibly a Five or Six Nations with Fiji and France included. We should go with that as a regular thing and work build from there.

With regard to other countries, I think it's much more important to focus efforts on fostering a rugby league culture from the ground up and get the structures and pathways put in place.

[Trojan]

41 minutes ago, JCXV said:

How do you get the clubs to release the players for a 6-week block of time? 
Who pays the players? 
Who pays for the support staff?
Who pays for travel, accommodation, per diem expenses?
Who covers injury insurance?
Who organises it?
Who underwrites it?
Who swallows any losses?
Who takes any profit?

It's a huge undertaking to get something like a tournament started, let alone do it every year.
 

There's no show without Punch.  If Aussie don't play, then Aussie won't pay.  Unless some of these alleged Canadians with more brass than sense want to have a go.

[JCXV]

6 minutes ago, Bolton Leyther said:

The key to any international calendar or event taking off is it being littered with proper contests, where enough doubt about who will win exists for intrigue in the competition to be maintained. The only thing that could offer that in the here and now is, as others have noted, a Four Nations tournament with Australia, England, Tonga and New Zealand. Or possibly a Five or Six Nations with Fiji and France included. We should go with that as a regular thing and work build from there.

With regard to other countries, I think it's much more important to focus efforts on fostering a rugby league culture from the ground up and get the structures and pathways put in place.

 

Jeopardy is very often misunderstood as a vital factor in the success of any competition or indeed the sport itself. 

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

11 minutes ago, JCXV said:

 

I would say the same for any sport looking to organise a 4-nation tournament played over 6 weeks. Look at accommodation just in isolation; 4 teams with 40 players and staff for 6 weeks is 6,720 hotel nights. Even at just £50 a night that is £336K! It's a massive undertaking where 'easy' has no part to play. 

 

Why would a Four Nations tournament be over 6 weeks? 3 regular fixtures and a final is 4 weeks.

There have been Four Nations tournaments in 2009, 2010, 2011, 2014 and 2016. They were all massively successful tournaments. Tonga have never played in one, a tournament including them would be even better.

For some reason we constantly want to chop and change, “bring back 3 match test series” “bring back GB” when the Six Nations has grown into the massive tournament it is through consistency and we should do the same by sticking to and building on the success we’ve had. As I said, a Four Nations tournament every year, with the exception of World Cup years would be great for International Rugby League.

[JCXV]

Just now, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Why would a Four Nations tournament be over 6 weeks? 3 regular fixtures and a final is 4 weeks.

 

 

So the players just fly in on Friday, get flogged for 3 weeks and then leave on the Sunday after the last weekend? That sounds nice. 

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

18 minutes ago, Trojan said:

There's no show without Punch.  If Aussie don't play, then Aussie won't pay.  Unless some of these alleged Canadians with more brass than sense want to have a go.

While you would want to include Australia, a tournament without them, in the years they refuse to play, could still be a success. 

Australian players are paid $20k per game.  New Zealand and England players are paid around $5k per game. Tonga are paid less than $1k per game. A tournament without Australia would be a lot cheaper to put on.

[Damien]

16 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Why would a Four Nations tournament be over 6 weeks? 3 regular fixtures and a final is 4 weeks.

There have been Four Nations tournaments in 2009, 2010, 2011, 2014 and 2016. They were all massively successful tournaments. Tonga have never played in one, a tournament including them would be even better.

Of course any Rugby League fan would know this. It is easily doable if the will is there.