Dunbar Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 20 minutes ago, Bert1 said: If it comes to cash no one is competing with the RFU. I'm sure that's heartwarming news to the 60 people they made redundant last year. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Ting Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 13 minutes ago, Nate90 said: Vivian Liberto? You sod, you made me google that. Learn to listen without distortion and learn to look without imagination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graveyard johnny Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 its sad that this discussion is even taking place so soon after the passing of peter fox a coach that Edwards could only dream of emulating, true to rl to the core not jumping ship or a bore see you later undertaker - in a while necrophile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graveyard johnny Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 20 minutes ago, Nate90 said: Vivian Liberto? she would have made a good touch judge (that may go over most heads here) see you later undertaker - in a while necrophile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 5 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said: its sad that this discussion is even taking place so soon after the passing of peter fox a coach that Edwards could only dream of emulating, true to rl to the core not jumping ship or a bore The funny thing is before going to RU Shaun Edwards was as anti RU as you could possibly get. He gave a fair few interviews where he couldn't disguise his contempt for the game and the people that ran it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 If Edward's doesn't come I would be very disappointed. If I had to name one player who I watched through the 80's and beyond who would make an outstanding coach it was Edwards. He was ultra professional, tactically fantastic and passionate about the sport. In every role he has had since he left our game he has shown dedication and innovation. I would love to see what he could add to Rugby League. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padge Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Damien said: The funny thing is before going to RU Shaun Edwards was as anti RU as you could possibly get. He gave a fair few interviews where he couldn't disguise his contempt for the game and the people that ran it. When you have to earn a living and your current potential employment circles tell you to FO, then what better way to stick it up 'em than go to the competition and prove what you have missed out on. Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007 Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king" This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Ting Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, Damien said: The funny thing is before going to RU Shaun Edwards was as anti RU as you could possibly get. He gave a fair few interviews where he couldn't disguise his contempt for the game and the people that ran it. Some folks are easily swayed. Who can blame him? it would be like doing a part time job and earning a relative fortune. Learn to listen without distortion and learn to look without imagination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCXV Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 18 minutes ago, Damien said: The funny thing is before going to RU Shaun Edwards was as anti RU as you could possibly get. He gave a fair few interviews where he couldn't disguise his contempt for the game and the people that ran it. Maybe, once he found that the people involved in RU didn't actually have horns growing out of their heads, or worship Satan but were in fact just regular blokes like he was used to, he changed his mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 18 minutes ago, Mister Ting said: Some folks are easily swayed. Who can blame him? it would be like doing a part time job and earning a relative fortune. Indeed. When he couldn't get a job in Rugby League he really had little choice plus if I recall he wanted to be in London because of his son leaving only one RL option. Some interviews he really did criticise everything about the game and called it boring on various occasions. Like Shaun Wane though big money for an easy part time gig has to be appealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearTheVee Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 6 hours ago, paulwalker71 said: Well, Wigan's own website said that Edwards signed a three-year contract https://www.wiganwarriors.com/news/2018-08-08-edwards-and-lam-to-return-to-wigan Direct quote So if he did actually sign a contract, then any don't Wigan simply produce it? Either Edwards or Wigan are telling porkies here... To be fair - if you are a fan of weasel words, that quote says he will return after signing a three year contract. A bit like me saying I’ll head home after going to the pub - doesn’t mean I’ve been to the pub yet . . . . or that I ever will if I decide not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Ting Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 12 minutes ago, JCXV said: Maybe, once he found that the people involved in RU didn't actually have horns growing out of their heads, or worship Satan but were in fact just regular blokes like he was used to, he changed his mind? That's a bit rich. And you claim to have played both codes. Learn to listen without distortion and learn to look without imagination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCXV Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 5 minutes ago, Damien said: Indeed. When he couldn't get a job in Rugby League he really had little choice plus if I recall he wanted to be in London because of his son leaving only one RL option. Some interviews he really did criticise everything about the game and called it boring on various occasions. Like Shaun Wane though big money for an easy part time gig has to be appealing. I understand that RL is approximately 100 times harder and more physical to play than RU, but I never realised it was also so much more taxing to coach it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, JCXV said: I understand that RL is approximately 100 times harder and more physical to play than RU, but I never realised it was also so much more taxing to coach it as well. Defense and backs coach roles, which ex RL players and coaches do in RU, are far less taxing than a coaching role in RL. Many are part time for far more money. Quite why that's a surprise I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCXV Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 5 minutes ago, Damien said: Defense and backs coach roles, which ex RL players and coaches do in RU, are far less taxing than a coaching role in RL. Many are part time for far more money. Quite why that's a surprise I'm not sure. In RL they don't employ somebody to carry the tackle bags then? Shocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Badrinath Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 3 hours ago, Bert1 said: If it comes to cash no one is competing with the RFU. I mean, warrington probably could... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denton Rovers RLFC Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 On 3/17/2019 at 2:12 PM, JDINTHEHIZZOUSE said: I never used to like shaun Edwards,he was always a "do you know who I am" type character when he was younger,a leopard can change its spots because he has proved himself to be quite a good coach,its a rare instance that We could say that rugby leagues loss is rugby unions gain. best of luck to him however he decides to pursue his career,hes a a sucess that as tgg fans,we should be proud of if Edwards had stayed in league he wouldn't have made it as a coach, that's no sleight on Edwards but rather the system, he'd have never taken a coaching job in RL anyway (which he didn't AFAIK) so it's no loss whatsoever to league. Second, even if he had, unless he'd had success he'd be turfed out sharpish and experienced yet more of the ex-player not good enough yadda yadda. Only in union has he been allowed time and a position where he's not and never has been the top dog and I suspect he's quite happy being in the position he is and doesn't want sole responsibility, even less so in league and doubly less so because if it doesn't work out he'll have essentially burnt his boats going back to union anywhere near the level he currently enjoys and has earned. Can't see him going to Wigan and think it was a ploy by the board all along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBone Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 3 hours ago, Denton Rovers RLFC said: if Edwards had stayed in league he wouldn't have made it as a coach, that's no sleight on Edwards but rather the system, he'd have never taken a coaching job in RL anyway (which he didn't AFAIK) so it's no loss whatsoever to league. Second, even if he had, unless he'd had success he'd be turfed out sharpish and experienced yet more of the ex-player not good enough yadda yadda. Only in union has he been allowed time and a position where he's not and never has been the top dog and I suspect he's quite happy being in the position he is and doesn't want sole responsibility, even less so in league and doubly less so because if it doesn't work out he'll have essentially burnt his boats going back to union anywhere near the level he currently enjoys and has earned. Can't see him going to Wigan and think it was a ploy by the board all along. IIRC correctly he was head coach at Wasps for 3 seasons 2005-2007. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnM Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 Given the frequent mention of rugby union, maybe this should now be on cross code? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 8 hours ago, Denton Rovers RLFC said: if Edwards had stayed in league he wouldn't have made it as a coach, that's no sleight on Edwards but rather the system, he'd have never taken a coaching job in RL anyway (which he didn't AFAIK) so it's no loss whatsoever to league. I don't know how you can say Edwards would never have made it as a coach. There is no evidence at all to back this up. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 8 minutes ago, Dunbar said: I don't know how you can say Edwards would never have made it as a coach. There is no evidence at all to back this up. I do see where he is coming from on this in some respects. Edwards couldn't get a job in Rugby League and certainly couldn't in London, hence moving to Union. Also Rugby League in this country doesn't have a great track record of our brains and great players making it as coaches. The game is full of English coaches like Wane, Radford, McDermott, Chester, Anderson. All forwards who weren't particularly noted as the cleverest of players. Whether they are more prepared to do the hard yards, serve apprenticeships as youth team coaches first and do the extra work needed I'm not sure, for example I know for instance that Wane did years as Academy coach first and put in a lot of time and effort etc. The rest are mostly Australian. In contrast the game is littered with the Gregory's, Schofield's and Hanley's who either flopped or had a good season or two and fell out with their clubs for whatever reason. We had Mike Ford struggling away at lower levels with Oldham, Dave Ellis in some backwater in France, Paul Deacon an assistant at Wigan, all then going on to do well in union. The likes of Sean Long and Martin Gleeson are still assistant coaches. Rugby League doesn't particularly have a great track record of great players making great coaches particularly backs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnM Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 Couldn't get a job? Nothing to do with the Heathery Small story? Not many former players stay in the game post career because in my view there is no succession planning, no money, no opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cumbrian Fanatic Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 5 minutes ago, Damien said: I do see where he is coming from on this in some respects. Edwards couldn't get a job in Rugby League and certainly couldn't in London, hence moving to Union. Also Rugby League in this country doesn't have a great track record of our brains and great players making it as coaches. The game is full of English coaches like Wane, Radford, McDermott, Chester, Anderson. All forwards who weren't particularly noted as the cleverest of players. Whether they are more prepared to do the hard yards, serve apprenticeships as youth team coaches first and do the extra work needed I'm not sure, for example I know for instance that Wane did years as Academy coach first and put in a lot of time and effort etc. The rest are mostly Australian. In contrast the game is littered with the Gregory's, Schofield's and Hanley's who either flopped or had a good season or two and fell out with their clubs for whatever reason. We had Mike Ford struggling away at lower levels with Oldham, Dave Ellis in some backwater in France, Paul Deacon an assistant at Wigan, all then going on to do well in union. The likes of Sean Long and Martin Gleeson are still assistant coaches. Rugby League doesn't particularly have a great track record of great players making great coaches particularly backs. I mentioned this before on other threads but I once read an interview with Martin O'Neil, his theory was that great players often didn't make great coaches because, having great natural talent they didn't need to work or think about the game as hard as others. Players like himself had to really think about what they needed to do and work hard on it to be successful this then helped them become better coaches. This theory supports why props like Wane and McDermott have been successful and more naturally gifted players like Gregory and Schofield were less so. While Edwards can polarise opinion I think all but the meanest would admit that Edwards thought about and worked extremely hard at his game, this would have enhanced his chances of becoming a very good Rugby League coach. 100% League 0% Union Just because I don't know doesn't mean I don't understand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean de Bordeaux Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 13 hours ago, Dunbar said: If Edward's doesn't come I would be very disappointed. If I had to name one player who I watched through the 80's and beyond who would make an outstanding coach it was Edwards. He was ultra professional, tactically fantastic and passionate about the sport. In every role he has had since he left our game he has shown dedication and innovation. I would love to see what he could add to Rugby League. I agree ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 20 minutes ago, Cumbrian Fanatic said: I mentioned this before on other threads but I once read an interview with Martin O'Neil, his theory was that great players often didn't make great coaches because, having great natural talent they didn't need to work or think about the game as hard as others. Players like himself had to really think about what they needed to do and work hard on it to be successful this then helped them become better coaches. This theory supports why props like Wane and McDermott have been successful and more naturally gifted players like Gregory and Schofield were less so. While Edwards can polarise opinion I think all but the meanest would admit that Edwards thought about and worked extremely hard at his game, this would have enhanced his chances of becoming a very good Rugby League coach. I think this is right. None of us can say whether Edwards would make a great Rugby League coach, the best we can say at this point is that he is an unknown quantity. However, we can look at the available evidence and try and form an opinion. When you look at Edwards attributes as a player and his subsequent reputation as a coach in Union I think there is a strong argument to say that he would have made it as a League coach. One thing I do know, Rugby League is poorer for not having the likes of Edwards and Farrell in the sport - in whichever role they would work best. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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