Shaun Edwards & Wigan (Merged Threads)

[philipw]

7 hours ago, Padge said:

Lenagan for whatever reason has not got Edwards to commit with a contract.

Edwards isn't dumb and he knows his stock is going up. If he can avoid signing a contract for longer, maybe a good show in the union world cup the his stock goes higher. If Wales have a complete bummer in the union cuppy thing then his stock falls.

He is edging his bets, he won't have pressed IL for a contract, it should have been the other way around where IL said sign now or the deal is off.

Lenagan has possibly presumed that getting Edwards on TV and radio saying the deal is done is as good as a contract, in that it makes it embarrassing to back out.

Edwards has bee taught well by union, don't be embarrassed about pulling dirty tricks.

I'm no union apologist, indeed I have no time for the sport, but this is just ridiculous - it's Wigan at fault here, not RU. 

[TBone]

52 minutes ago, philipw said:

I'm no union apologist, indeed I have no time for the sport, but this is just ridiculous - it's Wigan at fault here, not RU. 

With Wales winning the 6N and Grand Slam SE’s stock is high now. So, IMO this is the time to find his best deal, waiting for the WC to finish is a big risk but maybe he’ll insist on an England RU release clause just in case.

[Gerrumonside ref]

22 hours ago, Dave T said:

If I was Wigan I would be abandoning this plan now and take control of the situation.

He isn't even a Rugby League coach, so I wouldn't be worrying too much about missing out on him, he is hardly Craig Bellamy and doesn't seem committed.

Exactly.

The right move here is to move on.

Getting into a public spat with Edwards or whomever he moves to next is just going to see Wigan’s failure in this matter underlined.

Other top RL coaches are available!

[Dave T]

I wonder if this one will also be put down to Kris Radlinski being inexperienced in the area of  contracts.

[JohnM]

"It was Samuel Goldwyn who said that a verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's written on. In fact, the law does not have a problem with verbal contracts; in most cases, there is no requirement for a contract to be in writing. The problem is that, unless a contract is in writing, it’s one person’s word against another about first, was there a contract and second, what were its terms."

https://www.foxwilliams.com/news/450

 

[Cheshire Setter]

15 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I wonder if this one will also be put down to Kris Radlinski being inexperienced in the area of  contracts.

Great leadership isn’t it?...

Probably the most important decision that Wigan will make in decades, and the Chief Executive doesn’t stand up and take responsibility for not executing the task.

The cynic in me thinks this was both  Lenagan and Edwards keeping their options open.   If Lam was successful Lenagan need not take a risk on Edwards, club legend or not.   If Edwards has a successful 6N he can probably triple his value and secure his future in RU rather than risk it on Wigan.

As you alluded to earlier, draw a line and move on.   It’s just business.

[Cheshire Setter]

31 minutes ago, JohnM said:

The problem is that, unless a contract is in writing, it’s one person’s word against another about first, was there a contract and second, what were its terms."

Yeah I don’t think you could get that one to stand up in court.   It’s not like agreeing to buy a lawnmower after seeing it in the classifieds then not turning up.   You’ve got a complex legal document with many sub-parts and probably clauses too - you’d have to have an amazing memory to be able to both agree on the details and commit all of that legal stuff to memory for over 12 months

[Exiled Wiganer]

I have verbally agreed any number of contracts over the years. If the key terms are agreed, then you have a contract. Most importantly, Edwards took part in the announcement so can hardly claim ignorance. Wigan can sue and sue anyone they think has induced beach of contract.

However, there is absolutely no point in doing so. Hard to show loss and would be a pyrrhic PR win. If he bottles it, and would rather coach fatties falling over fatties then good luck to him.

We will be fine. It is almost but not quite a complete non event as a story, given that either Lam will find a way to get this squad into the top team it can be or someone else will come in and do a good job. 

[the punt]

It's hard to know the full circumstances but it sounds like Edwards and Wigan reached an "agreement to agree" that he would take up the post in 2020.  An agreement to agree [a formal contract] is rarely binding on either party, even if it's signed.  An unsigned agreement to agree is, almost certainly, unenforceable.   

[Dunbar]

54 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

I have verbally agreed any number of contracts over the years. If the key terms are agreed, then you have a contract. Most importantly, Edwards took part in the announcement so can hardly claim ignorance. Wigan can sue and sue anyone they think has induced beach of contract.

However, there is absolutely no point in doing so. Hard to show loss and would be a pyrrhic PR win. If he bottles it, and would rather coach fatties falling over fatties then good luck to him.

We will be fine. It is almost but not quite a complete non event as a story, given that either Lam will find a way to get this squad into the top team it can be or someone else will come in and do a good job. 

That's some good quality spin. This whole episode is a total embarrassment for Wigan.

[bazzzz65]

21 hours ago, EastLondonMike said:

. Can't stand Jim White.

Since he joined Talkcr*p neither can I.

 

He was good years ago when he wrote in the Guardian.

[Mushy]

10 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

That's some good quality spin. This whole episode is a total embarrassment for Wigan.

I see it more like it showing Edwards up to be honest, but obviously  it doesn’t do any favours to Wigan either. Time for the club to publicly (but professionally) bollick Edwards and move on I think. 

Re Radlinski, he is a genuine playing legend at Wigan, a very loyal servant who has apparently done a lot of good things for the club since moving into a leadership role. However he can’t possibly have the experience, education and training required in this environment to be running so many business aspects of a professional sports club. I’d have people with some business acumen and successful track record sorting out the contracts, finances etc rather than a former player any day of the week. 

[Dunbar]

5 minutes ago, Mushy said:

I see it more like it showing Edwards up to be honest, but obviously  it doesn’t do any favours to Wigan either. Time for the club to publicly (but professionally) bollick Edwards and move on I think. 

Re Radlinski, he is a genuine playing legend at Wigan, a very loyal servant who has apparently done a lot of good things for the club since moving into a leadership role. However he can’t possibly have the experience, education and training required in this environment to be running so many business aspects of a professional sports club. I’d have people with some business acumen and successful track record sorting out the contracts, finances etc rather than a former player any day of the week. 

I agree Edwards himself is coming out of this poorly as well.  But Wigan cannot put out a press release saying Edwards has signed a 3 year contract when he hasn't signed a contract and not come out looking foolish and unprofessional.

 

[Exiled Wiganer]

1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

I agree Edwards himself is coming out of this poorly as well.  But Wigan cannot put out a press release saying Edwards has signed a 3 year contract when he hasn't signed a contract and not come out looking foolish and unprofessional.

 

Actually, they went beyond putting out a press release didn’t they? They agreed terms with him, and he announced it himself. There is a contract, as clear as day. There is absolutely no evidence that Wigan were looking to renege on the deal. 

This is being presented as if we made it all up, and it came as some surprise to Edwards. Many people in top jobs shake hands on deals, and sort out the details later. That is clearly what happened here. Did Edwards wake up one morning, check his to do list and realise he had forgotten that he had agreed to coach us, and that he had taken part in the publicity around it? No, he wants out, and rather than talk to Wigan about it, for some reason decides to talk to the Vichy press. He could have talked to us rather than the fatties, and this could all have been dealt with, with no dramas. 

[EastLondonMike]

Wasps twitter account tweeting a pic of 'Shaun the sheep'and stating some exciting news. Could just be someone with a sense of humour of course!..

Video on twitter also of Adrian Lam commenting on the saga and saying he's had regular chats with Shaun over the last few months around the teams progress.
 

[Cheshire Setter]

1 hour ago, EastLondonMike said:

Wasps twitter account tweeting a pic of 'Shaun the sheep'and stating some exciting news. Could just be someone with a sense of humour of course!..

That's not Shaun the Sheep, it's Timmy the Little Lamb.   So it's either a clever gag that backfired (have Wasps employed that former Wigan admin assistant for marketing?) or they're recruiting a New Zealand international called Timmy. 

[Dunbar]

2 hours ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

This is being presented as if we made it all up, and it came as some surprise to Edwards. Many people in top jobs shake hands on deals, and sort out the details later.

This is not my experience.  I have seen top Executives spend weeks thrashing out the details of a contract before agreements are reached and then pen is put to paper. 

Particularly if there a performance element included in the reward which there could well be with a Rugby League coach.

[EastLondonMike]

21 minutes ago, Cheshire Setter said:

That's not Shaun the Sheep, it's Timmy the Little Lamb.   So it's either a clever gag that backfired (have Wasps employed that former Wigan admin assistant for marketing?) or they're recruiting a New Zealand international called Timmy. 

I believe 'Timmy' is Shaun the sheep's son. Maybe they've signed Edwards junior!

[Cheshire Setter]

15 minutes ago, EastLondonMike said:

I believe 'Timmy' is Shaun the sheep's son. Maybe they've signed Edwards junior!

Could be! 

[Tonka]

2 hours ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

Actually, they went beyond putting out a press release didn’t they? They agreed terms with him, and he announced it himself. There is a contract, as clear as day. There is absolutely no evidence that Wigan were looking to renege on the deal. 

This is being presented as if we made it all up, and it came as some surprise to Edwards. Many people in top jobs shake hands on deals, and sort out the details later. That is clearly what happened here. Did Edwards wake up one morning, check his to do list and realise he had forgotten that he had agreed to coach us, and that he had taken part in the publicity around it? No, he wants out, and rather than talk to Wigan about it, for some reason decides to talk to the Vichy press. He could have talked to us rather than the fatties, and this could all have been dealt with, with no dramas. 

Lawyer (and Wigan fan) here.  So lots of reasons to hate me ?

It isn’t “clear as day” there’s a contract.  Yes, you can agree something verbally, but the key issue on enforceability is certainty as to terms.  This sort of thing is very fact-dependent and none of us were there at the discussions.

It seems more likely to me that headline terms were discussed and agreed in principle on a subject to contract basis and are likely non-binding.

[Exiled Wiganer]

39 minutes ago, Tonka said:

Lawyer (and Wigan fan) here.  So lots of reasons to hate me ?

It isn’t “clear as day” there’s a contract.  Yes, you can agree something verbally, but the key issue on enforceability is certainty as to terms.  This sort of thing is very fact-dependent and none of us were there at the discussions.

It seems more likely to me that headline terms were discussed and agreed in principle on a subject to contract basis and are likely non-binding.

Well, 2 lawyers will never agree, and I am guessing, but if the key terms were settled enough for both sides to publicise it as a done deal I would take on the case. That said, it isn’t one that is worth fighting as there is little to be gained if we win. And there may be an element of “he said, she said”. 

Turning it round, if IL had now announced that Maguire was rejoining is last year, I am guessing Edwards would be pretty confident of getting compensation from us. 

Edwards’ own behaviour would be a significant factor. As I suppose would be the basis on which Lam took his job. 

If Edwards was a good man he would have called us before he spoke to the press. 

 

[Honor James]

Reading through this topic, I am trying to work out why anyone would want this chap Edwards, when it's quite clear he's prepared to use a Rugby League club to `play the ends off against the middle'.  And surely that goes for any rugby league club, not just Wigan.

He seems a pitifully self- focussed character to me, and therefore not a person likely to be much good at coaching Rugby League, where the team is alpha and omega.  Much more suited to Rugby Union, where it has always been more likely to see the `individual' ego thrive.

In Rugby League it takes a very special `individual ego' player to be accepted with any warmth.  I can only think of one who is regularly mentioned with affection and respect, across the whole game., who might have been `an ego' - in fact regularly says he was.  Certainly,from what I hear, could have claimed the right to be, and that is Alex Murphy.  But somehoe, I don't think he really was;  just played the part.

But they did have a right-down-regular `ego, me, mihi, me' at Saints last year.  A few fans migh have wept when he went back to the Wonderful Land Oz but I didn't hear much weeping from the team.  Was there any?  In order to shine, a chap like that has to be accommodated by the whole of the rest of the team.  Feed him the ball, set him up, watch his back ....

You've got to be pretty darned good, and then some, for other men to go on doing that for long, before they catch on to `cui bono'.

But oh ..... the hushed, admiring tones on Sky TV - enough to make sailor seasick!

They're not nuts in Oz.  You know what they say.

If the swan you thought you had, turns out to be a duck, paint it white and put it on the market.

[Exiled Wiganer]

1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

This is not my experience.  I have seen top Executives spend weeks thrashing out the details of a contract before agreements are reached and then pen is put to paper. 

Particularly if there a performance element included in the reward which there could well be with a Rugby League coach.

As have I. And I have seen plenty of people who have known each other for years settle the key terms with a view to its being papered later. I would be surprised if the people fighting over every clause would go on TV announcing they have agreed a deal before it has been signed.

[Dave T]

13 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

Well, 2 lawyers will never agree, and I am guessing, but if the key terms were settled enough for both sides to publicise it as a done deal I would take on the case. That said, it isn’t one that is worth fighting as there is little to be gained if we win. And there may be an element of “he said, she said”. 

Turning it round, if IL had now announced that Maguire was rejoining is last year, I am guessing Edwards would be pretty confident of getting compensation from us. 

Edwards’ own behaviour would be a significant factor. As I suppose would be the basis on which Lam took his job. 

If Edwards was a good man he would have called us before he spoke to the press. 

 

I think that is the important point here. 

Wigan need to take charge and move on from somebody who is playing them.

[Dunbar]

28 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

As have I. And I have seen plenty of people who have known each other for years settle the key terms with a view to its being papered later. I would be surprised if the people fighting over every clause would go on TV announcing they have agreed a deal before it has been signed.

Yes, that is pretty much my point... professional people don't make announcements until things are rock solid. 

Both Wigan RLFC and Shaun Edward's have acted unprofessionally here. Although I do agree that Edwards behaviour seems more devious while Wigans is just amateurish.