Hemel and New York

[Toby Chopra]

6 hours ago, The Future is League said:

I would like to see a situation where all British clubs only have British talent

Why on earth would you want that? 

For sure, we need to develop more British rugby league players, but that's as much about boosting the community game as what the pro tier should be doing. 

But surely we want to aim for a situation where the best players in the world, including Aussies and Kiwis, are plying their trade in Superleague?

[Smudger06]

8 hours ago, Hemel Stag said:

What we can assume is that Eric Perez aka the Canadian Consortium has bought a vote at the RFL - Sounds Right

(New) Hemels? (Hamilton / Montreal Stags) Pitch at this Conference will be to persuade the other Clubs to agree to come visit him at his new gaff - Like Toronto

otherwise he's stuck in Hemel - not so sure......................

If the club's statement is to be relied on (?)

"Hemel Stags wish to advise that ownership of Hemel Stags (2016) Limited - which operates the Betfred League 1 team - has been acquired by a Canadian consortium".

But not the premises or physical property........................

"This change of ownership has no impact on the Hemel Stags community club at Pennine Way - Hemel Hempstead Amateur Rugby League Club - which holds the long-term lease on the land at Pennine Way and owns all the assets on that land and which will continue to operate its successful community rugby league programme in and around Hemel Hempstead".

I am sure they would be open to offers for hiring out the facilities for training etc 

Yeah, I meant stuck in Hemel Hemstead for the purpose of playing professional RL.

[The Parksider]

11 hours ago, Lounge Room Lizard said:

I dont understand the RFL Statement. What exactly is the Strategy Expansion plan of the RFL? The RFL have been analysying the NY (and others) bid for over a year with big Nige before. Not sure what exactly they are looking at? Has the RFL even asked (Laughs) SL if they would be prepared to have a NY team in SL in the near future? If not, then what point is the NY team? 

There is only a point to "clubs" such as New York if they expand the game. The definition of expansion is a bigger pool of quality professional players and a bigger TV deal and there can be no sensible argument about that unless anyone feels they can argue with the owners of the big Superleague clubs on this vital business issue.

Too many people think that if these overseas clubs clubs draw several thousand fans to each game or if these games are hundreds or thousands of miles away that is "expansion". It just isn't in any shape or form. 5,000 fans turning up to New York games will make many on here think it's a success when not even Widnes or Bradford could make those crowds work and they didn't have to pay massive travel costs to the opposition. Toronto are a massive loss making business. They are unviable financially and do not attract a paying TV deal to share here nor develop quality SL players (both these targets being Perez's own measure of success) and never will.

How many more times do people want to repeat this failure? It only "works" if a mega rich owner is prepared to sink many £Millions into their club. In the case of Mr. Argyle the frustration for the SL bosses is that he's wasting/sinking all that money into a "club" 3,000 miles away. There can be no doubt they want him sinking it into Bradford or a London club at least. Maybe both with the help of Perez. These guys would be a great assett to RL, my only problem is they were riding the wrong horse which ran into the ground when the World Cup was pulled from North America.. I can only hope their stakes in clubs here is the first step to them coming here.

The RL press got a sniff of the story and went two ways. League express stated something was happening and this could be the start of the American dream, whilst League weekly reported journos saying that this could be more like the end of it.

We have to remember that before swanning off to the the RLIF a disgruntled Nigel Wood flagged TWP straight into the Championship. He then left the game here and SL bosses were left with the prospect of a guest club knocking on the SL door. This dilemma has seen SL state that such clubs had no automatic right to SL and conversely state they have no problem with such clubs even though they bring no TV deal and no more players, meaning nothing expands. Three overseas clubs in SL means three M62 clubs out of SL, and as the League stands that's Fartown Wigan and Leeds to go join Bradford and Widnes in the championship. 

Does anyone really really believe that is the game plan that will save the game here? Five of our biggest clubs excluded from Superleague, heading for the rocks substituted for clubs that bring no paying TV deals or quality players? Cue daft posts suggesting an 18 club Superleague. This is how silly wishful thinking can take things.

So as the days pass we will see which way this is going, and as I have always observed it was the RFL who got us into this "mess" "dream" "opportunity" call it what you will, but it's quite right that Superleague makes them sort it out. Cue 100 posts ignoring that expansion is more TV money and more quality players. For dreaming is only possible with the eyes shut, the ears not working and the brain engaged only in dream mode.

[fevtom]

8 hours ago, roughyedspud said:

I'd like to see somekind of domestic player quotas implemented for the likes of Toronto and any north American franchises..

I agree but that's going to take a while to implement and at first would probably mean Toronto end up with a bunch of Australians with tenuous links to Canada.

[The Future is League]

1 hour ago, Whippet13 said:

I can't think of a single professional sport in the world which only uses domestic players, our game's history is full of great players who have come from abroad and some of this year's signings have generated positive media and public interest. It's also (currently) illegal to discriminate against players who are EU citizens. Completely agree your point that certain British clubs do not develop enough players, but we should always welcome quality overseas players.

The Irish granny rule wont be applicable if and when we leave the EU.

Certain clubs better start to get their act together now as regards junior development.

[Toby Chopra]

9 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

The Irish granny rule wont be applicable if and when we leave the EU.

Certain clubs better start to get their act together now as regards junior development.

On the specific point, yes it will. Even under a No Deal Brexit the Common Travel Area will remain in place so anyone with an Irish passport can continue to work in Britain. 

On the wider points, the vast majority of rugby league imports come from outside the EU anyway so aren't going to be affected by ending free movement. If anything, looking at the rhetoric from prominent Brexiteers, they want to make it EASIER for people from Aus and NZ to work here. 

The aim should be to have both - the best international players plus a flow of talented British youngsters entering the game. The fact that we don't have enough of the latter isn't caused by the former. Bluntly, British RL is just too darn poor to attract enough promising youngsters into sacrificing their teens in a brutal sport, in the hope of turning pro. We need more cash and more fully pro teams, paying higher wages. Then we'd see the flow of British youngsters improve. 

[Smudger06]

Overseas quotas are RFL rules with the intent to ensure a strong national team. 

Sportperson visas are straight forward enough as long as the fees and paperwork are submitted correctly. They need a bona fide pro / semi pro club to sponsor (i.e a full time employment contract) an athlete and a recognised national governing body to endorse the athlete as an elite / top level player. So the quota could be increased easily enough within the sport itself. 

[Smudger06]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://secure.rugby-league.com/ign_docs/RFL-Rugby%20League%20Strategic%20Plan%202014-2021.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj-wY268I3hAhXBRxUIHYcWDHkQFjABegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw2X8LOzZi-kgRRCr4OoI6gB

For those asking about the RFL Vision; you're welcome. 

[winnyason]

3 hours ago, The Parksider said:

There is only a point to "clubs" such as New York if they expand the game. The definition of expansion is a bigger pool of quality professional players and a bigger TV deal and there can be no sensible argument about that unless anyone feels they can argue with the owners of the big Superleague clubs on this vital business issue.

Too many people think that if these overseas clubs clubs draw several thousand fans to each game or if these games are hundreds or thousands of miles away that is "expansion". It just isn't in any shape or form. 5,000 fans turning up to New York games will make many on here think it's a success when not even Widnes or Bradford could make those crowds work and they didn't have to pay massive travel costs to the opposition. Toronto are a massive loss making business. They are unviable financially and do not attract a paying TV deal to share here nor develop quality SL players (both these targets being Perez's own measure of success) and never will.

How many more times do people want to repeat this failure? It only "works" if a mega rich owner is prepared to sink many £Millions into their club. In the case of Mr. Argyle the frustration for the SL bosses is that he's wasting/sinking all that money into a "club" 3,000 miles away. There can be no doubt they want him sinking it into Bradford or a London club at least. Maybe both with the help of Perez. These guys would be a great assett to RL, my only problem is they were riding the wrong horse which ran into the ground when the World Cup was pulled from North America.. I can only hope their stakes in clubs here is the first step to them coming here.

The RL press got a sniff of the story and went two ways. League express stated something was happening and this could be the start of the American dream, whilst League weekly reported journos saying that this could be more like the end of it.

We have to remember that before swanning off to the the RLIF a disgruntled Nigel Wood flagged TWP straight into the Championship. He then left the game here and SL bosses were left with the prospect of a guest club knocking on the SL door. This dilemma has seen SL state that such clubs had no automatic right to SL and conversely state they have no problem with such clubs even though they bring no TV deal and no more players, meaning nothing expands. Three overseas clubs in SL means three M62 clubs out of SL, and as the League stands that's Fartown Wigan and Leeds to go join Bradford and Widnes in the championship. 

Does anyone really really believe that is the game plan that will save the game here? Five of our biggest clubs excluded from Superleague, heading for the rocks substituted for clubs that bring no paying TV deals or quality players? Cue daft posts suggesting an 18 club Superleague. This is how silly wishful thinking can take things.

So as the days pass we will see which way this is going, and as I have always observed it was the RFL who got us into this "mess" "dream" "opportunity" call it what you will, but it's quite right that Superleague makes them sort it out. Cue 100 posts ignoring that expansion is more TV money and more quality players. For dreaming is only possible with the eyes shut, the ears not working and the brain engaged only in dream mode.

Are you just a robot on repeat ?

[Exiled Wiganer]

So, a Canadian team has Hemel’s “licence” AND New York are also  joining the competition? Something’s afoot somewhere with our game, and I like the sound of it! 

What puzzles me is who is behind these ventures. I can see how a league loving billionaire could want to spend his loose change on Toronto, and that is going even better than any of us could have hoped, so, if, there is a Crowe and a Murdoch behind these bids all power to them. If not, and if someone is trying to make a business case, there must be something behind this, such as franchising or big TV deals on offer. 

What days these are for TGG. 

(I also heard the other day that a 2025 World Cup with NA pools was still a distinct possibility so we can all look up how to get ESTAs.)

[Tommygilf]

2 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

So, a Canadian team has Hemel’s “licence” AND New York are also  joining the competition? Something’s afoot somewhere with our game, and I like the sound of it! 

What puzzles me is who is behind these ventures. I can see how a league loving billionaire could want to spend his loose change on Toronto, and that is going even better than any of us could have hoped, so, if, there is a Crowe and a Murdoch behind these bids all power to them. If not, and if someone is trying to make a business case, there must be something behind this, such as franchising or big TV deals on offer. 

What days these are for TGG. 

(I also heard the other day that a 2025 World Cup with NA pools was still a distinct possibility so we can all look up how to get ESTAs.)

I think a lot of the appeal is that for a professional team the SL/RFL structure is relatively cheap to buy into. Salary cap wise its way less than half the RU premiership and indeed the pro14. In terms of other American sports (which all have similar travel expenses as East coast of NA to Europe at times) the outlay for an RL team is utterly dwarfed. 

I think a lot of these rich blokes like the idea of having a team, hopefully more of them come to RL.

[Exiled Wiganer]

59 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I think a lot of the appeal is that for a professional team the SL/RFL structure is relatively cheap to buy into. Salary cap wise its way less than half the RU premiership and indeed the pro14. In terms of other American sports (which all have similar travel expenses as East coast of NA to Europe at times) the outlay for an RL team is utterly dwarfed. 

I think a lot of these rich blokes like the idea of having a team, hopefully more of them come to RL.

Plus, it is entertaining to watch, and readily easily understood if you are familiar with American football. I guess what puzzles me is the business model. It could be as simple as it is relatively cheap for genuinely wealthy people (while nowhere in the Argyle tier of wealth, David Hughes props up the Broncos out of his pay packet, without even needing to dip into his investments). 

[fighting irish]

Look out behind you! 

[Smudger06]

1 hour ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

So, a Canadian team has Hemel’s “licence” AND New York are also  joining the competition? Something’s afoot somewhere with our game, and I like the sound of it! 

What puzzles me is who is behind these ventures. I can see how a league loving billionaire could want to spend his loose change on Toronto, and that is going even better than any of us could have hoped, so, if, there is a Crowe and a Murdoch behind these bids all power to them. If not, and if someone is trying to make a business case, there must be something behind this, such as franchising or big TV deals on offer. 

What days these are for TGG. 

(I also heard the other day that a 2025 World Cup with NA pools was still a distinct possibility so we can all look up how to get ESTAs.)

ESTA's are easy as ya like. Do it all online and pay a small fee, something like 20 dollars and jobs a good un. 

[Smudger06]

3 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

not sure that is of much use anymore.

Well stuff like this would come under growing the geographical footprint and raising the profile of the sport, and this is the official document to drive us into 2021........

[Damien]

59 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

From 2014. Seems a few things have changed from then. Thats probably why we only have strategic plans upto 2017

Does the RFL really follow through on any of the numerous plans it produces? Most seem to be announced then barely get followed or mentioned again.

[Onieda FC]

4 hours ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

So, a Canadian team has Hemel’s “licence” AND New York are also  joining the competition? Something’s afoot somewhere with our game, and I like the sound of it! 

What puzzles me is who is behind these ventures. I can see how a league loving billionaire could want to spend his loose change on Toronto, and that is going even better than any of us could have hoped, so, if, there is a Crowe and a Murdoch behind these bids all power to them. If not, and if someone is trying to make a business case, there must be something behind this, such as franchising or big TV deals on offer. 

We don't know who is backing Ricky Wilby's NYCRL venture but on the Full Eighty Minutes Wilby alluded to some construction magnate here being one of them. I don't think you'd be dealing with billionaires here in New York, perhaps a few millionaires. The Perez consortium is a complete mystery other than it's Canadian. Hopefully we'll find out the details in the near future.

Wilby claims to have airline, hotel, and broadcast partners lined up (again, from his appearance on the Full Eighty Minutes). 

[Chamey]

47 minutes ago, Onieda FC said:

We don't know who is backing Ricky Wilby's NYCRL venture but on the Full Eighty Minutes Wilby alluded to some construction magnate here being one of them. I don't think you'd be dealing with billionaires here in New York, perhaps a few millionaires. The Perez consortium is a complete mystery other than it's Canadian. Hopefully we'll find out the details in the near future.

Wilby claims to have airline, hotel, and broadcast partners lined up (again, from his appearance on the Full Eighty Minutes). 

I know that there's no shortage of construction magnates in NY, but MLR's Rugby United NY's owner James Kennedy is most certainly one of them.

[Onieda FC]

4 minutes ago, Chamey said:

I know that there's no shortage of construction magnates in NY, but MLR's Rugby United NY's owner James Kennedy is most certainly one of them.

He is one of them indeed. I'd doubt he's involved in both- he turned down PRO 14 because he said it would take 5 years to ramp up for it. 

Quote

“I said to [Pro14 CEO] Martin Anayi, ‘if you announce a New York team now and give me five years to build it, it will work fantastically. If you announce a New York team and it’s supposed to play in September, it won’t work. The team won’t be good enough, the community won’t engage. USA Rugby wouldn’t support them either.’

 

[RobertAM]

Fly to North America, see the Wolfpack play team X, go to Niagara Falls etc, drive 6hrs down the road to Montreal thru the Thousand Islands area (please, please let EP's team  be there..!!.) to see Mtl play team Y, tour around there and Quebec City etc..then go to NY on the plane (55mins) and see NY play team Z..sounds like a hell of a RL road trip...forget the flat earthers like the increasingly tiresome ParqueCider..the future is very bright.

[This Sporting Strife]

Teams flying to and fro the Atlantic? On the one hand, good for us rl fans; but is this really a sensible thing to be doing in a world whose climate is rapidly changing with ominous consequences?  

[TBone]

23 hours ago, OriginalMrC said:

The RFL are in a no win situation here. If they don't consult the clubs they get criticised, if they do consult the clubs they get criticised. 

Personally I hope both bids get approved but it is only right the clubs are consulted in my view. 

The RFL don't consult the clubs (members), the members decide...

"The subscribers to the Memorandum of Association of the Company; the Members as at the date of incorporation of the unincorporated association known as the Rugby Football League; and such other persons as are admitted as members by the Council in accordance with these Articles (and any applicable Rules) shall be the Members of the Company. Every person who wishes to become a Member shall deliver to the Company an application for Member in such form as the Directors require executed by him. Any application for Member shall be made to the Chairman and shall be assessed against such criteria as the Council may specify from time to time. Membership is not transferable and shall cease on dissolution."

Council : ""means the members of the Company for the purposes of the Act;

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, This Sporting Strife said:

Teams flying to and fro the Atlantic? On the one hand, good for us rl fans; but is this really a sensible thing to be doing in a world whose climate is rapidly changing with ominous consequences?  

I've seen some excuses on here that scrape the barrell when it comes to reasons against expansion but I'd say that's the best. Well done 

[This Sporting Strife]

1 minute ago, Damien said:

I've seen some excuses on here that scrape the barrell when it comes to reasons against expansion but I'd say that's the best. Well done 

No, this isn't a thinly disguised piece of propaganda from the 'Keep it  M62 Party', but a genuine question about the environmental costs of actually running an intercontinental league in this way.

[RobertAM]

well I guess we could all stay put, ditch the cars, close down industry etc and go back to living in caves and eating raw meat but I don't think that's the answer. China and India agree to shut down all surplus to requirements steel mills and it would do more for the environment then eliminating every car in the world.