It’s Ottawa in 2020 says Eric Perez

[westside]

Hell yeah. John Candy was a Toronto man though may have been a WP fan.

[Kayakman]

5 hours ago, westside said:

In fact I just asked my bro in law who grew up in the heart of deer country. He says only buck is used.

Its like with pickeral...some areas call it walleye...all depends on the geographic area and the guys....sometimes the amount of whiskey drunk at 'Buck Night'  can also make a difference!

Funny thing, last week I was at buddies ranch and he has cured the most beautiful buck hide out in the tannery...we were pretty heavy into the Antigua Rum and he runs his hands through, i must say, the most beautiful cured  white tail deer hide I ever seen..and I've seen and scraped and cured a few myself.  He looks up at me, with his hand moving through it and says, "What a beautiful stag hide" (there was an unwritten pride in how he said it).

Then of course he tell me the whole tale from start to finish of the hunt etc.  Takes aboiut 10 minutes but turned into 15 or 20 (and more glasses of rum).

We get to another room in the tannery, looking at oak planks, but left the door to the tannery open.  Sons pit bull comes in, goes right to hide, and rips entire whitetail off of hide and runs out door.  Chews it into long hair fibers out side, spits them up, and runs away.

I look at buddy and he is in shock, goes white as ghost, then red as hell...then the ranting and the raving began let me tell you....like the Heavens opened with swearing!.....heavy rum drinking always seem to affect him like that!

[westside]

Sh!t. That dog would be sleeping outside for a couple of months if that was me. Yeah we are definitely “walleye” territory in northern Ohio. That and perch... good eatin.

[TIWIT]

4 hours ago, westside said:

Hell yeah. John Candy was a Toronto man though may have been a WP fan.

One-time co-owner of the Toronto Argonauts but always a major booster of Toronto and its sports teams.

[westside]

Didn’t know that. One of my all time favortie actors. Had my kids watch Uncle Buck for the first time not long ago. They have to see it about 59 more times to catch up with dad.

[The Parksider]

On 3/27/2019 at 9:30 PM, Manfred Mann said:

The choice of Ottawa seems a much better one than Hamilton. On the other hand Montreal would have been better than Ottawa. But there is no reason why Montreal couldn't be added later if Toronto is soon promoted to Super League and Ottawa is soon promoted to the Championship, thereby proving that they are successful. After those arrangements are completed all we will be missing is mighty Vancouver in the far west, to create a Canadian conference in Super League.

You need to pop New York and Boston in there, and Jacksonville. 8 team NA conference. Then pick your eight English & French clubs for the European conference what about Toulouse, Catalans, London Broncos, London Skolars, Newcastle, Liverpool, Manchester.....maybe Cardiff All big clubs in big places.

On 3/27/2019 at 9:17 PM, Big Picture said:

The onus of proof is on the person who makes the statement, not on those of us who question it.

Manfred and I can't really prove 10 of the clubs above even exist, we again can't prove there are any rich investors at all for ten of the clubs we have named. I cannot prove that there are 120 more top class professionals to stock the extra clubs. Can't prove NA will contribute a single player or there's a TV deal for any of this either, can't prove dinosaur M62 SL clubs will let this go through either. Darn it!!

On 3/28/2019 at 7:02 AM, fevtom said:

As long as people are watching I don’t see how free tickets are a bad thing. 

Try paying £20 for a ticket and the guy next to you saying he was given his ticket in the street. Mindst you he probably will be in the Beer tents whilst your watching the match. 

Anyway Danny Lockwood in League Express suggests tongue in cheek TWP's offer to forgo the SKY money, will see them in SL, as the other clubs will benefit from a bigger share of the money. Ultimately seven SL clubs is a majority vote so four more NA clubs can come in leaving the seven sharing the SKY contract and the NA clubs funding themselves via these large consortiums of rich owners, but I can't prove they exist until some names appear other than "Argylle".

Anyway bottom line is the Championship clubs headed by the RFL are going to be judge, jury and possible executioner for the North American dream. This leaves Mr. Elstone and Mr. Lenegan saying "Nothing to do with us". If they give it the chop that's a death sentence for TWP and Argyle will be able to honourably withdraw from the American dream and come to London.

What I can prove is since 2013 Hector McNeil has made the argument a seriously strong presence in London, with a winning SL club (or two?)  could do so much to keep the games profile up here, and maximise revenues here. That winning club would need someone like a $Billionaire to bankroll the "London dream". If the championship clubs reject the NA dream then what price the "dream" getting on a plane to London??

[fighting irish]

I'm glad you're in here Parksider, keeping everyone ''grounded'' in reality.

You are obviously very knowledgeable about the state of the game (especially in the North) so I always look forward to your comments. Its also clear to me that you are cautious about doing anything which might undermine the existing clubs and that is admirable. We wouldn't want to chuck the baby out with the bathwater.

I can't help thinking though, that you seem resigned to the (inevitable) terminal decline of our sport. I don't know if anyone has asked you directly, whether you have any ideas about how the decline might be slowed, then stopped and (sooner rather than later) reversed so that growth might be restored but if you do, I'd like to hear them?

I think one of the reasons you attract such negative reactions, is that you seem to constantly urge us all to give up hope.

To ardent fans, (especially those working hard in development areas,) this is unpalatable. You are a bit like scrooge telling the kids that Santa doesn't exist.

From someone who values your opinions, are you saying we should stop trying to grow the game, give up hope and just enjoy it for as long as it lasts, before it inevitably vanishes from planet earth forever?

Or do you have a ''reality based'' strategy to turn things around?

[Angelic Cynic]

In case you missed it - http://www.rlnews.co.uk/new-ottawa-club-wont-spend-big-money-on-players/

 

https://twitter.com/johnnyddavidson/status/1111332589674074113

[Kayakman]

12 hours ago, westside said:

Sh!t. That dog would be sleeping outside for a couple of months if that was me. Yeah we are definitely “walleye” territory in northern Ohio. That and perch... good eatin.

Are you talking regular Perch or Tiger Perch?...actually, did you know, that walleye is a type of perch?

Boy has since moved out with his dog...my buddy actually wanted to shoot it.

Its interesting how terms are interchanged throughout Canada and the US.   I've noticed a new trend in that the traditional 'Stag and Doe' (pre wedding party for friends getting married)  is now being called sometimes (about 10%) as a 'Buck and Doe'.

The largest overall wild deer population I have seen is actually in Wisconsin....they grow them big in Wisconsin!

[Kayakman]

11 hours ago, TIWIT said:

One-time co-owner of the Toronto Argonauts but always a major booster of Toronto and its sports teams.

He was born and raised in Hamilton and must have been a Tiger Cats fan.

[westside]

1 hour ago, Kayakman said:

Are you talking regular Perch or Tiger Perch?...actually, did you know, that walleye is a type of perch?

White perch and yellow (with the tiger stripes).

[Kayakman]

2 minutes ago, westside said:

White perch and yellow (with the tiger stripes).

We call them 'Jumbo Perch' up in these here parts.  I love eating them...very good from the fry pan into the belly!

[Big Picture]

5 hours ago, The Parksider said:

You need to pop New York and Boston in there, and Jacksonville. 8 team NA conference. Then pick your eight English & French clubs for the European conference what about Toulouse, Catalans, London Broncos, London Skolars, Newcastle, Liverpool, Manchester.....maybe Cardiff All big clubs in big places.

Manfred and I can't really prove 10 of the clubs above even exist, we again can't prove there are any rich investors at all for ten of the clubs we have named. I cannot prove that there are 120 more top class professionals to stock the extra clubs. Can't prove NA will contribute a single player or there's a TV deal for any of this either, can't prove dinosaur M62 SL clubs will let this go through either. Darn it!!

Try paying £20 for a ticket and the guy next to you saying he was given his ticket in the street. Mindst you he probably will be in the Beer tents whilst your watching the match. 

Anyway Danny Lockwood in League Express suggests tongue in cheek TWP's offer to forgo the SKY money, will see them in SL, as the other clubs will benefit from a bigger share of the money. Ultimately seven SL clubs is a majority vote so four more NA clubs can come in leaving the seven sharing the SKY contract and the NA clubs funding themselves via these large consortiums of rich owners, but I can't prove they exist until some names appear other than "Argylle".

Anyway bottom line is the Championship clubs headed by the RFL are going to be judge, jury and possible executioner for the North American dream. This leaves Mr. Elstone and Mr. Lenegan saying "Nothing to do with us". If they give it the chop that's a death sentence for TWP and Argyle will be able to honourably withdraw from the American dream and come to London.

What I can prove is since 2013 Hector McNeil has made the argument a seriously strong presence in London, with a winning SL club (or two?)  could do so much to keep the games profile up here, and maximise revenues here. That winning club would need someone like a $Billionaire to bankroll the "London dream". If the championship clubs reject the NA dream then what price the "dream" getting on a plane to London??

That rich potential investors exist in North America is proven by the ease with which the major pro leagues here find new investors, both when the owner of an established franchise wants to sell and also for startup expansion franchises like the new NHL team in Seattle whose owners paid 650 million US$ to join that league.  The only question for an RL organization seeking such investment is how to make it appealing to them.

What price the dream for such investors (or any others who don't already have the game in their blood) backing a franchise in London?  I suggest that the answer is to create something which can be a drawcard for Londoners in a way which none of the various incarnations of the Broncos has ever had.

[Cdd]

36 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

That rich potential investors exist in North America is proven by the ease with which the major pro leagues here find new investors, both when the owner of an established franchise wants to sell and also for startup expansion franchises like the new NHL team in Seattle whose owners paid 650 million US$ to join that league.  The only question for an RL organization seeking such investment is how to make it appealing to them.

What price the dream for such investors (or any others who don't already have the game in their blood) backing a franchise in London?  I suggest that the answer is to create something which can be a drawcard for Londoners in a way which none of the various incarnations of the Broncos has ever had.

I don’t think most people realise how North American sports work. It’s alien to people who have only ever known UK sport.

They’ve seen half hearted failed attempts at setting up new teams in Wales, Paris and Newcastle and have had nothing else to make them think otherwise until Toronto.

Setting up new teams in the US is done properly and new areas usually respond well to the privilege of having a new team to support in their town or city. It just doesn’t work like that in the UK.

[Kayakman]

15 minutes ago, Cdd said:

I don’t think most people realise how North American sports work. It’s alien to people who have only ever known UK sport.

They’ve seen half hearted failed attempts at setting up new teams in Wales, Paris and Newcastle and have had nothing else to make them think otherwise until Toronto.

Setting up new teams in the US is done properly and new areas usually respond well to the privilege of having a new team to support in their town or city. It just doesn’t work like that in the UK.

There is no sense in doing something unless you are willing to do it well.

RL is a sport but also a business....the financial fundamentals must be corrrect and in place for a new Club...with a long term plan and certifiable benchmarks.  

Thats why the Ottawa bid is by far the better of the two.  Perez has no problem in presenting his case, backed by hard facts; not supposition....the money is there.   The goal must be to make money in the medium/long term or it just won't work.  If there is money to be made other money will always be around and looking for a growing home.

You can play the best rugby in the world but if you are bleeding money long term the Club will fold; simple.

The business fundamentals must come first; build it and they will come.

[Loup]

Oh I see we're revisiting the 'free tickets' square of the Wolfpack bingo card.

Here's how it works, for the benefit of Parky and all the other nay-sayers who don't understand how marketing works:

As a season ticket holder, I get two 'bring a friend' free tickets each season. Last year, I gave those to friends who had never seen a rugby league game in their lives but who appreciated the invitation to a good afternoon out. Shock horror, these two people got in free (although they both bought beer, so contributed to profit). One of those friends bought tickets to several other games last season, and brought family along on paid tickets, and the other got hooked and bought season tickets for this year. The two friends I go with regularly had similar experiences. Our three sets of season tickets in 2018 is now six sets of season tickets for 2019. In short, six free tickets (aargh! horrible! cheats!) turned into many subsequent ticket sales and three new sets of season tickets (great! wow! amazing!).

Despite Parky's concerns about my welfare, I don't care if I sit next to someone who got in free. Quite the opposite: I am delighted. Because chances are, they'll be back, with cash in their pockets.

 

 

 

[Kayakman]

6 minutes ago, Loup said:

Oh I see we're revisiting the 'free tickets' square of the Wolfpack bingo card.

Here's how it works, for the benefit of Parky and all the other nay-sayers who don't understand how marketing works:

As a season ticket holder, I get two 'bring a friend' free tickets each season. Last year, I gave those to friends who had never seen a rugby league game in their lives but who appreciated the invitation to a good afternoon out. Shock horror, these two people got in free (although they both bought beer, so contributed to profit). One of those friends bought tickets to several other games last season, and brought family along on paid tickets, and the other got hooked and bought season tickets for this year. The two friends I go with regularly had similar experiences. Our three sets of season tickets in 2018 is now six sets of season tickets for 2019. In short, six free tickets (aargh! horrible! cheats!) turned into many subsequent ticket sales and three new sets of season tickets (great! wow! amazing!).

Despite Parky's concerns about my welfare, I don't care if I sit next to someone who got in free. Quite the opposite: I am delighted. Because chances are, they'll be back, with cash in their pockets.

 

 

 

And if they are sitting beside you, you are probably the one that got them in free....then they buy the beer!   WHAT A GREAT DEAL!

[fighting irish]

 

28 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

There is no sense in doing something unless you are willing to do it well.

RL is a sport but also a business....the financial fundamentals must be corrrect and in place for a new Club...with a long term planned and certifiable benchmarks.  

Thats why the Ottawa bid is by far the better of the two.  Perez has no problem in presenting his case, backed by hard facts; not supposition....the money is there.   The goal must be to make money in the medium/long term or it just won't work.  If there is money to be made other money will always be around and looking for a growing home.

You can play the best rugby in the world but if you are bleeding money long term the Club will fold; simple.

The business fundamentals must come first; build it and they will come.

I think its a matter of scale.

A billion is a thousand million.

A book, with a billion pages in it, would be 78 miles thick! 

With sufficient money a Superleague club could be financed as a loss making scheme to offset taxation.

Or a wealthy (really wealthy) man's hobby.

We may be (for the first time in RL history) attracting the attention of the very rich. I don't know. 

I'm eager to see how it turns out.

I remember Richard Branson soon fell out of love with RL but if they judge that this product of ours has real, potentially global appeal, (as most of us here do) they might want to get in at the start and fuel a global expansion with hopes of a return, further down the line.

I agree very much with Kayakman, if you can't afford to do it right, you can't afford to do it at all. 

[Kayakman]

2 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

 

I think its a matter of scale.

A billion is a thousand million.

A book, with a billion pages in it, would be 78 miles thick! 

With sufficient money a Superleague club could be financed as a loss making scheme to offset taxation.

Or a wealthy (really wealthy) man's hobby.

We may be (for the first time in RL history) attracting the attention of the very rich. I don't know. 

I'm eager to see how it turns out.

I remember Richard Branson soon fell out of love with RL but if they judge that this product of ours has real, potentially global appeal, (as most of us here do) they might want to get in at the start and fuel a global expansion with hopes of a return, further down the line.

I agree very much with Kayakman, if you can't afford to do it right, you can't afford to do it at all. 

I'm thoroughly convinced Argyle, although personally wealthy, wants this Club to start making coin as as soon as possible.  Its a question of personal pride with him.

He is an astute man and the money he is investing today has expected returns in the future.  He is on the record that he is going to give it everything he has for 5 years then reassess.   There must be future profit in it for him after 5 years and I think there will be...

 

Follow the money.

[Big Picture]

1 hour ago, fighting irish said:

I remember Richard Branson soon fell out of love with RL but if they judge that this product of ours has real, potentially global appeal, (as most of us here do) they might want to get in at the start and fuel a global expansion with hopes of a return, further down the line.

In hindsight, with the benefit of having seen the events of the past year, Branson falling out of love with the game should not surprise anyone.  No doubt he had to contend with the same small-minded thinking as Toronto and these proposed other new clubs, that probably made him wonder what on earth he'd got himself into.

[Kayakman]

12 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

In hindsight, with the benefit of having seen the events of the past year, Branson falling out of love with the game should not surprise anyone.  No doubt he had to contend with the same small-minded thinking as Toronto and these proposed other new clubs, that probably made him wonder what on earth he'd got himself into.

Bang on post that!   They don't even know enough to know the damage that they have done and are currently doing....the negative energy is awful...where is the optimism?...where is the 'Can Do attitude?...why are they always so negative about growth, any growth, all the time?

Its time to take our game back from theses malcontents and chronic underachievers ...its time to think big...it time for the 'BIG PUSH' of expansion...its time to git 'er done.

[nadera78]

1 hour ago, Big Picture said:

In hindsight, with the benefit of having seen the events of the past year, Branson falling out of love with the game should not surprise anyone.  No doubt he had to contend with the same small-minded thinking as Toronto and these proposed other new clubs, that probably made him wonder what on earth he'd got himself into.

Actually, no. Branson only got involved in the first place because he was launching an airline in Australia and it coincided with the old World Club Championship. It gained his new airline a lot of publicity, much much more than he could have bought for a similar sum spent on conventional advertising. Once that tournament (which was something of a disaster anyway) died, when the Aussie game re-united and had other things to focus on, he lost interest almost completely. Stuck around for another couple of years but never turned up to games outside of the Challenge Cup final.

Either way, it turned out he didn't know how to run a sports club, or show much interest in learning either. It was simply "put a team on the field, do a few interviews for Sky, and people will roll in" - which is essentially what the club has done ever since. Didn't work then, doesn't work now.

[henage]

1 hour ago, Kayakman said:

Bang on post that!   They don't even know enough to know the damage that they have done and are currently doing....the negative energy is awful...where is the optimism?...where is the 'Can Do attitude?...why are they always so negative about growth, any growth, all the time?

Its time to take our game back from theses malcontents and chronic underachievers ...its time to think big...it time for the 'BIG PUSH' of expansion...its time to git 'er done.

should this post be in the Brexit thread !!

[Kayakman]

29 minutes ago, henage said:

should this post be in the Brexit thread !!

I'm not making any more comments on Brexit for awhile...i promised DP.

I will only say this though.   I'm not for or against Brexit in any way....I'm neutral to it and its up to folks over there to decide the future of their country...none of my business.   

As an impartial observer what  I will comment on is the the PROCESS of Brexit, which has become a cruel joke, totally botched from the very beginning, mishandled by incompetents. There is no real plan...there never was.....reminds me of the Battle of the Somme and the Butcher Haig....for 141 days they continued the needless slaughter....Brexit could take on the same feel (indeed it already has).

I wish you all the best working your way out of this mess.

[TIWIT]

7 hours ago, Kayakman said:

He was born and raised in Hamilton and must have been a Tiger Cats fan.

Born in Newmarket, grew up in East York, graduated Neil McNeil high school in east Toronto and got bit by the acting bug while attending Centennial College. Toronto all the way,

Co-owned (20%) the Argos with Bruce McNall (60%) and Wayne Gretzky (20%) 1991-94. Bought them for $5 million, took a $500,000 loss on the sale 4 years later.