You Tell Me Why There Are Too Many Clubs In Sydney

[anjado]

4 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

Told you this’d be the next thing that would be brought up!

As for your “counter”, if you actually bothered to look into it you’d know that since their relocation the Swans saw steadily growing growth year on year (with some exceptions in the mid 80s) and that they didn’t see any segnifcant jump in numbers until 2006, you know about a decade after SL was done and dusted, also a year after they won the “flag” (for those that don’t know what the flag means, it means the premiership). So tell me is the theory now that all the fans of the clubs that were rationalised waited 5-10 years to jump on the Swans to get back at RL for taking their clubs away, or could it simply be that maybe the Swans saw a jump in support in 06 because they had some success and the bandwagon was jumping on...

 Also, it’s a very odd tactic to bring up a club that was rationalised and went on to be one of the most successful clubs in the country as your “counter” to the suggestion that rationalisation isn’t the worst thing in the world and won’t lead to the death of the sport.

It’s also a strange tactic to suggest that the the fans of rationalised clubs will all abandon the sport overnight, when you yourself had your team rationalised and yet here you are 20 years later, on a forum dedicated to the sport... Like shouldn’t you be a massive Swans/Waratahs fan like supposedly all the other fans of the clubs that have been rationalised?

BTW, I was a Bears fan for years, I sort of still am (it’s kind of difficult to follow them attentively with them being in the NSW cup and my being based in Canberra) sure after the Raiders joined the comp the Bears pretty quickly became my second team, but I think you get the point that if rationalising a club is the quickest way to turn all the fans of those clubs off the sport then it’s pretty weird that two old fans of two rationalised clubs are here talking about it now isn’t it!

I'm sorry but your statement about the Sydney Swans is clearly wrong. The Swans lowest crowd average post-1996 was 26,749 in 2000. The Swans have only averaged under 30,000 three times since 1996.

The Swans highest crowd average from 1982-1995 was 27,705. They only averaged over 20,000 per game twice in 1986 and 1987.

 

Sydney Swans crowd average jumped from 12,803 in 1993 to 30,804 in 1996. The Swans averaged 12,000 fans per game higher in 1996 compared to 1995.

In fact, from 1988-94 The Swans highest crowd average was 15,490 in 1991.

In 1993 which was the last season before any real mention of Super League The Swans averaged 4,000 people less than Canterbury, 2,000 less than Manly and were basically on a par with Norths and Parramatta. Rugby League played 3 games at the SCG in 1993 and outdrew the Swans by 11,000 people per game.

As someone who grew up in Sydney at the time the Super League war did massive damage to the game coupled with the Swans success during this period. The Swans were considered a joke pre-1996 similar to how the Giants are now and were the worst sports team in Sydney they were the last sport to be covered on the news and were arguably less popular than the Sydney Kings basketball team amongst younger people.

[Sports Prophet]

20 hours ago, anjado said:

I'm sorry but your statement about the Sydney Swans is clearly wrong. The Swans lowest crowd average post-1996 was 26,749 in 2000. The Swans have only averaged under 30,000 three times since 1996.

The Swans highest crowd average from 1982-1995 was 27,705. They only averaged over 20,000 per game twice in 1986 and 1987.

 

Sydney Swans crowd average jumped from 12,803 in 1993 to 30,804 in 1996. The Swans averaged 12,000 fans per game higher in 1996 compared to 1995.

In fact, from 1988-94 The Swans highest crowd average was 15,490 in 1991.

In 1993 which was the last season before any real mention of Super League The Swans averaged 4,000 people less than Canterbury, 2,000 less than Manly and were basically on a par with Norths and Parramatta. Rugby League played 3 games at the SCG in 1993 and outdrew the Swans by 11,000 people per game.

As someone who grew up in Sydney at the time the Super League war did massive damage to the game coupled with the Swans success during this period. The Swans were considered a joke pre-1996 similar to how the Giants are now and were the worst sports team in Sydney they were the last sport to be covered on the news and were arguably less popular than the Sydney Kings basketball team amongst younger people.

Thanks for finding the figures. I knew I was right and any suggestion that the Swans did not benefit off the back of the SL war is misguided.

As a fan of Aussie Rules as well as League, I can also confirm the popularity of the sport in the early 90s amongst kids was as low as it ever had been. Agreed, Sydney Kings and the NBL were in their heyday and were arguably more popular.

[The Great Dane]

On 3/25/2019 at 1:50 AM, anjado said:

I'm sorry but your statement about the Sydney Swans is clearly wrong. The Swans lowest crowd average post-1996 was 26,749 in 2000. The Swans have only averaged under 30,000 three times since 1996.

The Swans highest crowd average from 1982-1995 was 27,705. They only averaged over 20,000 per game twice in 1986 and 1987.

 

Sydney Swans crowd average jumped from 12,803 in 1993 to 30,804 in 1996. The Swans averaged 12,000 fans per game higher in 1996 compared to 1995.

In fact, from 1988-94 The Swans highest crowd average was 15,490 in 1991.

In 1993 which was the last season before any real mention of Super League The Swans averaged 4,000 people less than Canterbury, 2,000 less than Manly and were basically on a par with Norths and Parramatta. Rugby League played 3 games at the SCG in 1993 and outdrew the Swans by 11,000 people per game.

As someone who grew up in Sydney at the time the Super League war did massive damage to the game coupled with the Swans success during this period. The Swans were considered a joke pre-1996 similar to how the Giants are now and were the worst sports team in Sydney they were the last sport to be covered on the news and were arguably less popular than the Sydney Kings basketball team amongst younger people.

LOL, talk about cherry picking and misleading...

Here's the Swans average for every year since their relocation:

2018	23	789,860	34,342
2017	24	896,761	37,365
2016	26	966,681	37,180
2015	24	773,209	32,217
2014	25	917,520	36,701
2013	25	798,556	31,942
2012	25	797,513	31,901
2011	24	696,304	29,013
2010	24	734,242	30,593
2009	22	678,852	30,857
2008	24	763,700	31,821
2007	23	837,350	36,407
2006	25	932,297	37,292
2005	26	963,304	37,050
2004	24	763,793	31,825
2003	24	782,068	32,586
2002	22	601,683	27,349
2001	23	718,498	31,239
2000	22	588,472	26,749
1999	23	812,981	35,347
1998	24	811,128	33,797
1997	23	763,573	33,199
1996	25	770,094	30,804
1995	22	417,044	18,957
1994	22	339,934	15,452
1993	20	256,062	12,803
1992	22	318,235	14,465
1991	22	340,787	15,490
1990	22	289,353	13,152
1989	22	285,247	12,966
1988	22	304,133	13,824
1987	24	618,061	25,753
1986	24	664,911	27,705
1985	22	284,227	12,919
1984	22	314,684	14,304
1983	22	315,819	14,355
1982	22	388,507	17,659

Now, 1986-87 they saw a jump because Geoffrey Edelsten bought the club and invested a fortune in signing star players and in a marketing campaign.

In 1996 they saw a massive jump because they went from being cellar dwellers for years to being real contenders and making the grand final for the first time since they relocated to Sydney!

Since 1996 they've been perennial contenders (largely because the AFL was passively rigging the competition in their favour for years, but that is a story for another time), they basically haven't had a bad year since then, and they saw another jump in 05 because they won the whole damn comp for the first time.

So in conclusion what does that chart show? Relatively steady and expected growth with the exception of a flash in the pan in the mid 80s... 

Also if all the rationalized clubs fans jumped on the Swans like the propaganda suggests then you'd expect to see a big jump in the Swans support in 99-00 (which you don't) not in 1996, years before any clubs were rationalised and also before the real impact of SL was felt... 

[Spidey]

AFL crowds on a RL discussion. Anybody that bothered?  

[Bleep1673]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/mar/27/tribal-nature-of-rugby-league-presents-barrier-to-nrl-relocation

Guardian on why the Sports Channels are talking expansion/relocation