Mr Plow Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 Comments made by Barriw Chairman about scrapping dual reg and SL clubs putting reserve teams in League 1 https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/put-super-league-reserve-teams-in-league-one-suggests-club-chairman/ Could benefit development teams but I don’t think you want more than 12 teams in League 1 so would have to form a League 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriginalMrC Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 12 minutes ago, Mr Plow said: Comments made by Barriw Chairman about scrapping dual reg and SL clubs putting reserve teams in League 1 https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/put-super-league-reserve-teams-in-league-one-suggests-club-chairman/ Could benefit development teams but I don’t think you want more than 12 teams in League 1 so would have to form a League 2 Really disagree with this. Leave league one be please and instead of bonkers ideas like this how about clubs just have a reserves league... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Plow Posted March 24, 2019 Author Share Posted March 24, 2019 8 minutes ago, OriginalMrC said: Really disagree with this. Leave league one be please and instead of bonkers ideas like this how about clubs just have a reserves league... I wouldn’t add anymore teams to L1i think a small division benefits development teams such as Coventry, Skolars ect. The main issue is young players not getting competitive game time, reserve grade would fix that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Clothesoff Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 Suggested this a few times. League One has lost its way, it’s purely existing and nothing else. There seemed to be the idea it was going to be a development league around the time All Golds, Hemel, Oxford and Coventry come in and with London, Newcastle and West Wales (South Wales then) around, it seemed a good plan for that level of the game. Then a couple of years later, the powers that be had another change of mind and it all went to pot and we now have a league without a purpose and teams just surviving, not thriving. There seems to be quite a sway of interest in a Reserve grade returning at the top level of the game but, correctly IMO, teams want a proper, organised, competitive league and with League One losing its way, it could be a way in for the reserves and a way for League One to return to the premise of it being a development league. The crowds at Coventry for Leeds Academy’s visits have been impressive in pre-season and if given the opportunity to host the Leeds’, Wigan’s and Saints’ in a proper league game would be good news for them. I do wonder about this though. From a Saints perspective, I’d rather see Jack Ashworth, Danny Richardson and Matty Costello playing regularly in the Championship if they’re not getting in the nineteen each week rather than them possibly playing the likes of West Wales. No disrespect but they’re above that level and it also wouldn’t be much good for the development of League One teams. I know the names above aren’t Academy players but there would be still some need for a loan market for the likes of the names above. I’m not sure if all Super League clubs could just start a Reserve side like that, I think it would be your top clubs that would be able to walk straight into League One. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan of Attack Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 I would rather see No super League players in the Championship unbalancing matches (Rochdale had 5 in a recent match that's nearly half the team, just think of the lads that train week in week out at Rochdale ect only to be told they are being dropped so a super league player can get fit) and the tight wad super league run a proper reserve league. Dual reg is the biggest disaster in Rugby league ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayme2020 Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 If you look at Major League Soccer they allow reserve teams in the USL D1 now does it work many will say no because they can't compete vs the non reserve teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Kevin Sinfield Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 I think this could work if it was kept to just a few clubs. I’d suggest Leeds, Wigan and St Helens. It’s not completely untested in Rugby League, Catalans have a side in Elite 1. Most Queensland Cup and New South Wales Cup sides are effectively reserve NRL sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headtackle Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 If the likes of Saints Wigan Leeds etc are struggling to find competitive games for squad players having a "2nd" team in a lower division makes perfect sense SL is an unachievable pipe dream for some clubs. Why not give them the chance to at least visit and play at some of the bigger grounds Would rather watch Saints reserves play some competitive games with a purpose than the reserves league in its recent format Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dboy Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 8 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said: I think this could work if it was kept to just a few clubs. I’d suggest Leeds, Wigan and St Helens. If Leeds carry on as they are, they'll be in that division anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Frisky Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 League 1 hasnt lost it's way- last season was a cracking season with some good crowds and some very good players. However we arnt soccer or even Union and dont have all their cash, so we need to do what we need to do. If the likes of Wigan and Saints played their reserves it would help them pay for the reserves and it would boost the crowds in the division. If a team say Coventry played say Leeds reserves at Coventry you could see the local fans turning out in numbers. In turn the level of play would improve. For once let's just sort this now for next season - what is there to lose?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayme2020 Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 8 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said: League 1 hasnt lost it's way- last season was a cracking season with some good crowds and some very good players. However we arnt soccer or even Union and dont have all their cash, so we need to do what we need to do. If the likes of Wigan and Saints played their reserves it would help them pay for the reserves and it would boost the crowds in the division. If a team say Coventry played say Leeds reserves at Coventry you could see the local fans turning out in numbers. In turn the level of play would improve. For once let's just sort this now for next season - what is there to lose?? You could have a league with 24 or 25 teams that could be a issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man of Kent Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 Just lump in all the clubs willing and able to field reserve teams into a ‘Development League’ and organise a fixture list. Why is that so hard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Frisky Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 Or just bolt on Lg2 - SL teams in Lg1 & Lg2 but can only go up as far as Lg1 - all other teams can be promoted and relegated as they can now - easy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man of Kent Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 12 minutes ago, scotchy1 said: It isnt hard, it just doesnt really achieve anything. A reserves league doesnt work because its not at a high enough level. Of course it achieves something, it gives game time to fringe/injury-comeback/young/trial players. There’s no need to reinvent the wheel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 13 minutes ago, Man of Kent said: Of course it achieves something, it gives game time to fringe/injury-comeback/young/trial players. There’s no need to reinvent the wheel Indeed, plus it keeps players in a fully professional environment with the best training available and playing the correct systems for that club. Dual registration certainly doesn't work and I haven't spoken to anyone that isn't scathing about it as a means of developing young players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Clothesoff Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 The main issue with this idea is whether you allow promotion for the Super League Reserve sides or not. If you don’t and you get a situation where the top two or three of League One is Super League Reserve teams and the third or fourth best team are getting promoted, you’re in danger of watering down the talent further in the Championship. There’s also an argument that you’re stuttering growth of the young players from the Super League clubs by not allowing them to progress to their natural level if you’re penalising them and denying them promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man of Kent Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 Just now, Damien said: Indeed, plus it keeps players in a fully professional environment with the best training available and playing the correct systems for that club. Dual registration certainly doesn't work and I haven't spoken to anyone that isn't scathing about it as a means of developing young players. Systems, yes, hadn’t thought of that but seems logical. You don’t need whizzy comps with complex structures, just fixtures. Nobody really cares who wins A-team comps anyway, it’s the taking part that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man of Kent Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 1 minute ago, scotchy1 said: That's why it doesn't work. The step up from a development comp where nobody cares who wins to a fully pro SL environment proved too big. That's why we got rid of it And made that gap even wider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man of Kent Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 24 minutes ago, scotchy1 said: Did we? The gap between the championship and SL is far smaller than it was between the reserves/U23/colts and SL The fact is most sports are moving away from reserved not towards because reserves dont work. There are next to no major sports who rely on a reserves to develop players. Why not just have full feeder teams. Instead of Coventry playing Leeds academy give Coventry access to Leeds knowledge and expertise and player base and share that to try and build Coventry. Let Leeds take care of the developing players and putting out a squad and let Coventry take care of what they should be taking care of. Getting people through the gates and getting kids playing Football has reserve leagues. Nobody cares who wins them, but they do care about fringe/injured/young players getting game time and making progress. They work, whatever you may think. I’m confused by your idea of feeder clubs. Are you suggesting Coventry should be Leeds A playing in Coventry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man of Kent Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Just now, scotchy1 said: Football doesnt, it has an U23 development league and the best prospects don't play in it. They go out on loan. Even a championship club like leeds will send out a player like Tom Pearce, an England U20 and U21 international out on loan to a league 1 club than play him in the development league. Im suggesting Leeds and Coventry should share Expertise, facilities, scouting and players. Oh but they do, Scotchy. My L1 football club plays in something called the Central League. It may be called an U23 league but in reality it is an open age reserve league. The last game featured 11 first team squad players.... Not sure of the value of a de facto Coventry = Leeds A. If you add Crusaders = Warrington A, West Wales = Wigan A, Skolars = Toronto A, Doncaster = Hull A etc, hey presto, you’d have a reserve league! Only one played miles from home, probably too far for the first team coach to watch and a narrowed pathway for local talent. Better to just have a good old-fashioned reserve league! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man of Kent Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, scotchy1 said: Too far? Its like 2 hours. We also have the ability to record things these days. And it being played miles away is the point. It improves the standard those teams are playing at. And it doesnt narrow the pathway for local talent. It creates it. OK, I’m open minded so let’s think about this. Let’s say my London-based L1 football club wants to do away with Central League reserves and have fringe first teamers and young players play en masse for a non-league team in Yorkshire. They will play several games, sometimes twice a week, so should they move or travel up and down the M1 for matches? How much will that cost? What if a player is doing well, does he move back to London or stay in Yorkshire? Or travel down for games? What do the players think about all this to and fro? How much control would the first team manager have on the Yorkshire side’s team selection? What about tactics? Formations? They could play to order, I guess. But how would the parent club know? The games might well clash with a L1 fixture. There’s always a tape but is this preferable to attending an afternoon midweek reserve game down the road? I suppose it could work but it seems an insanely inefficient use of resource by the parent club to achieve the same ends as a reserve team. So no need to reinvent the wheel... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 6 hours ago, scotchy1 said: Dont speak to Rob elstone then. Hes been pretty scathing about a reserves. Has he? I see for some reason in some of your other posts you only decide to selectively quote what he says too. Disingenuous to say the least: Elstone believes the system - scrapped as being mandatory at the end of 2012 - is the best way to produce top home-grown players, if part of a well-planned, well-structured development pathway. https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/robert-elstone-exclusive-part-two-13716167.amp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 5 hours ago, scotchy1 said: Yeah, it exists. But the players who are being developed for first team don't play in it. Or as Rob Elstone put it “Despite investing millions of pounds in under-23s football, the Premier League – and football as a whole - still has concerns about the final step in a young players development. With the best will in the world, under-23s football - reserve team football in one guise - is not proving to be a fully effective final step. It’s important we learn from those lessons. Roberto Martinez said to me a few years ago, we have the best youth development in the world up to the age of 16 or 17 and then one of the worst beyond that" Too far? Its like 2 hours. We also have the ability to record things these days. And it being played miles away is the point. It improves the standard those teams are playing at. And it doesnt narrow the pathway for local talent. It creates it. Why did you stop your quote there Scotchy? You are being very disingenuous on this and making out Elstone said stuff he didn't. For clarity it's perhaps better to quote everything that Elstone said. I'll put in bold what you decided to miss out: “It’s important we learn from those lessons. Roberto Martinez said to me a few years ago, we have the best youth development in the world up to the age of 16 or 17, and then one of the worst beyond that. Roberto was a huge supporter of ‘B-team’ football. “Back to rugby league, I understand that the game’s performance teams felt reserve team football was the way to go - it completed the journey, it was an essential, and currently missing, final step in the transition from a talented youngster into a Super League-ready ‘young man’. “In that case, in my view, the competition should have been compulsory, and every Super League team should have one. However, the competition will live and die by the games programme it creates. “Without every Super League club, the competition is diminished, the games programme becomes weaker and in a self-fulfilling way, we will look at a competition that fails to deliver its aim, and fails to deliver what the game needs. “It’s easy to say that because I don’t have that direct accountability, but that would have been my recommendation. I understand that the RFL and its performance team thought it could get to that point on a more graduated basis – as I said, the danger for me was that giving clubs the option to compete opened itself up to dilution. “The whole point of that competition should be around a reliable strong games programme. It will only deliver what you want if you have a tough, meaningful games programme where the best young 19 and 20-year-olds play against the opponents’ best. “I’m not quite sure where the RFL will go with it next, but if we really believe that reserve team football is an important stepping stone from academy level into first team Super League, then I think we’ve got to buy into it fully, wholly and en bloc as a mandatory thing, rather than do it on an optional basis. That’s where I am on it.” https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/robert-elstone-exclusive-part-two-13716167.amp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 5 hours ago, Man of Kent said: Oh but they do, Scotchy. My L1 football club plays in something called the Central League. It may be called an U23 league but in reality it is an open age reserve league. The last game featured 11 first team squad players.... Not sure of the value of a de facto Coventry = Leeds A. If you add Crusaders = Warrington A, West Wales = Wigan A, Skolars = Toronto A, Doncaster = Hull A etc, hey presto, you’d have a reserve league! Only one played miles from home, probably too far for the first team coach to watch and a narrowed pathway for local talent. Better to just have a good old-fashioned reserve league! The Football reserves is very similar to what we had in Rugby League in that it is a u23 League with overage players. That is perfect for Rugby League and fills a necessary void in a players development after u19s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluded pom? Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 10 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said: I think this could work if it was kept to just a few clubs. I’d suggest Leeds, Wigan and St Helens. It’s not completely untested in Rugby League, Catalans have a side in Elite 1. Most Queensland Cup and New South Wales Cup sides are effectively reserve NRL sides. https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/rugby-league-news/hull-fc-reserve-team-fixtures-2546658 None of those SL teams showed any interest in running a reserve team in 2019. The world doesn’t revolve around Leeds, Saints and Wigan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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