Oliver Clothesoff Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 The idea that Coventry should just become Leeds Reserves so that Coventry can focus on getting kids playing the game and attendances has one massive hole in it. It kills the pathway in Coventry and the Midlands. Whilst little Jonny, a born and bred Coventraryian may take up the game, there is a glass ceiling in place and his RL career is done at 16 if his local team Coventry are dressed up as somebody else’s reserves. The whole sorry Hemel basing themselves in Sheffield and then Dewsbury was an example of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Clothesoff Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, deluded pom? said: https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/rugby-league-news/hull-fc-reserve-team-fixtures-2546658 None of those SL teams showed any interest in running a reserve team in 2019. The world doesn’t revolve around Leeds, Saints and Wigan. https://www.saintsrlfc.com/2019/02/21/dual-reg-working-well-for-saints/ https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/st-helens-frustrated-by-reserves-stalemate/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 10 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said: The idea that Coventry should just become Leeds Reserves so that Coventry can focus on getting kids playing the game and attendances has one massive hole in it. It kills the pathway in Coventry and the Midlands. Whilst little Jonny, a born and bred Coventraryian may take up the game, there is a glass ceiling in place and his RL career is done at 16 if his local team Coventry are dressed up as somebody else’s reserves. The whole sorry Hemel basing themselves in Sheffield and then Dewsbury was an example of this. A very good point. Coventry are there to expand the game and develop a club in Coventry. Flooding the team with players from else where does nothing for that club nor the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Clothesoff Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 7 minutes ago, scotchy1 said: It doesnt kill the pathway in Coventry and the Midlands, It creates it. Little Jonny isnt done at 16 at 16 little Jonny is playing with, training with, being coached by, one of the best academies in Rugby League and if Little Jonny shows enough potential then Little Jonny can easily be slotted in to Leeds academy and have a clear pathway to Super League. And if he is "only" a championship/L1 quality player then Little Jonny can make his career at Coventry. The point would be to mix the best youngsters with players of Little Jonnys quality. Do you genuinely believe Coach A would pick Jonny, a kid from the Midlands, over a player who’s told he’s playing for Super League Team A’s Reserve Grade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbruce Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Can you both keep us up to date with how Jonny gets on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Boy Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 If Little Jonny gets into a big club set up, surely the nutritional standards will turn him into Big Jonny? Money can't buy you happiness! It can buy you beer and that's a bit like happiness in a glass! "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals." Sir Winston Churchill Some folks are wise and some are otherwise! Tobias Smollett "I distrust camels, and anyone else who can go a week without a drink." Joe E Lewis "Look at the ffing state of that"! My mate on the Avenue last Friday whilst pointing to a scantily clad young lady and spitting a mouthful of beer out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imranpatel87 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 i reckon the RFL should allow 2 SL reserve sides into the L1 set up next season. obviously they can't get promoted. allow them 3 overage players in the matchday squads. I think it would improve the standard in L1. no harm in giving it a go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbruce Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 36 minutes ago, imranpatel87 said: i reckon the RFL should allow 2 SL reserve sides into the L1 set up next season. obviously they can't get promoted. allow them 3 overage players in the matchday squads. I think it would improve the standard in L1. no harm in giving it a go I don’t see why they can’t get promoted. Obviously they can’t go into the same league as their first team but for it to be of any use they need to be playing at the highest standard possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fevtom Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Just a question for league one fans. Would you be more or less likely to go watch your team against a super league reserves side? Some of the arguments for this make sense but the closest thing I've seen to this in England is premier league under 21's teams playing in the check-a-trade trophy which was universally unpopular and lead to many teams recording their lowest ever attendance for 100 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorks Tim Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 32 minutes ago, fevtom said: Just a question for league one fans. Would you be more or less likely to go watch your team against a super league reserves side? Some of the arguments for this make sense but the closest thing I've seen to this in England is premier league under 21's teams playing in the check-a-trade trophy which was universally unpopular and lead to many teams recording their lowest ever attendance for 100 years. I couldn't stay away but don't want SL reserve sides in League 1. Squarepegs, round holes. A game against Newcastle or Workington is a serious challenge. A game against Wigan reserves is a friendly, an exhibition match and hence distracting from the business of trying to get ourselves in the top half of the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Clothesoff Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 6 hours ago, fevtom said: Just a question for league one fans. Would you be more or less likely to go watch your team against a super league reserves side? Some of the arguments for this make sense but the closest thing I've seen to this in England is premier league under 21's teams playing in the check-a-trade trophy which was universally unpopular and lead to many teams recording their lowest ever attendance for 100 years. As a fan of a lower league football team, I said at the time the Under-23 teams were added to that competition that I’d rather watch someone different, albeit a Premier League teams U23’s, over playing the same teams we play in the league year in, year out in another competition. And as a fan of a Super League club in exile, attending games is costly both monetary wise and annual leave wise, as most are Thursday’s or Friday’s, however, if this were to happen, I’d be more likely to travel to Coventry, Llanelli, Keighley, Hunslet etc on a Sunday to watch our Academy than taking at least a day’s annual leave to go to Castleford or Leeds in the rain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate90 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 An interesting idea but not one I'd support, I think some of the top flight clubs need to bang their heads together and have a reserves league, I understand it could be costly so it may be worth having a Yorkshire and a Lancashire division at reserve level seeing as Catalans second team play in the French leagues. Do London have a reserve team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headtackle Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 7 hours ago, fevtom said: Just a question for league one fans. Would you be more or less likely to go watch your team against a super league reserves side? Some of the arguments for this make sense but the closest thing I've seen to this in England is premier league under 21's teams playing in the check-a-trade trophy which was universally unpopular and lead to many teams recording their lowest ever attendance for 100 years. As an SL club supporter I don't know how League 1 fans would view seeing Saints, Wigan, Wire "reserves". I know you are not seeing the real thing but the Reserves often contain some quality young and fringe players. Presume a League 1 club beating the likes of the above would be well received as well. From an SL perspective if games alternated weekends I would happily go and watch Saints reserves play a league 1 team. Would be good to see some of the old traditional and newer clubs first hand. Why not the odd double header so League 1 players get a taste of big stadiumsa and crowds. Lets face it most grounds have plenty of empty space so slotting in a few neutrals not an issue If all SL clubs were forced to do it the competition outside of SL would get a boost. SL clubs could be free to choose whether they played out of the usual stadium or based themselves elsewhere (ie Liverpool reserves have played at Wrexham, Tranmere, Widnes and Southport I think). Names would need a tweak but surely not too difficult to think of another animal or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roughyedspud Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Start a league 2 with SL reserve teams and have promotion and relegation between leagues 1 & 2 but not allow SL reserve teams to be promoted to the championship.. couple of other rules... 1. End DR 2. SL reserves to be primarily under 23s but are allowed to play SL 1st teamers returning from injury. Simple. OLDHAM RLFC the 8TH most successful team in british RL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 8 hours ago, roughyedspud said: Start a league 2 with SL reserve teams and have promotion and relegation between leagues 1 & 2 but not allow SL reserve teams to be promoted to the championship.. couple of other rules... 1. End DR 2. SL reserves to be primarily under 23s but are allowed to play SL 1st teamers returning from injury. Simple. So basically just a reserve League the same as before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roughyedspud Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 I must have missed the oldham v Wigan warriors 'A' league game "we had before.." League one - as is now League two - SL reserves / 'A' teams One up / one down P&R between league one & two Only 'stand alone clubs' can be promoted to the championship Apparently it's not simple...to some.. OLDHAM RLFC the 8TH most successful team in british RL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbruce Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 2 minutes ago, roughyedspud said: I must have missed the oldham v Wigan warriors 'A' league game "we had before.." League one - as is now League two - SL reserves / 'A' teams One up / one down P&R between league one & two Only 'stand alone clubs' can be promoted to the championship Apparently it's not simple...to some.. It isn’t that simple clubs who don’t want reserve don’t want them because they want their fringe players to be playing at a higher level. If you’re going to cap that at league 1 I don’t think they’ll go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 14 minutes ago, roughyedspud said: I must have missed the oldham v Wigan warriors 'A' league game "we had before.." League one - as is now League two - SL reserves / 'A' teams One up / one down P&R between league one & two Only 'stand alone clubs' can be promoted to the championship Apparently it's not simple...to some.. Don't be obtuse. League 2 is essentially just the old reserve League. You even illustrate that above. It also won't look good if in time L1 after L1 club gets relegated and replaced by a reserve club. Indeed I think a lot of L1 clubs and fans would completely lose interest. L1 is a poor level and many if not all the teams would be below a SL reserve team level. U19 teams can beat L1 clubs in friendlies as it is, never mind u23 reserve teams with overage players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Reserves aren't straightforward. It's clear that there is too large a gap between u19s and Super League. But whether reserves is the best way to develop that talent is debateable. Ideally we'd have what football has with reserves and a thriving loan system. Then again we could say that about everything. Putting SL reserves into L1 would be fruitless imo, devaluing L1 and knocking back the efforts of its clubs. The comparisons with the Johnstone's paint trophy are relevant here. I think what annoys people about DR is its temporary nature. Players drop in and drop out, not knowing whether they're in the picture for which club at the weekend. I see no benefit in that at all. For me the whole benefit of loans are not only that a player gets more game time, but that they embed themselves in the culture of a different club and grow as players - a process which takes time. With less than 40 clubs in Britain however this isn't a huge market to loan into, perhaps clubs should look further afield across the channel maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbruce Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 36 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: Reserves aren't straightforward. It's clear that there is too large a gap between u19s and Super League. But whether reserves is the best way to develop that talent is debateable. Ideally we'd have what football has with reserves and a thriving loan system. Then again we could say that about everything. Putting SL reserves into L1 would be fruitless imo, devaluing L1 and knocking back the efforts of its clubs. The comparisons with the Johnstone's paint trophy are relevant here. I think what annoys people about DR is its temporary nature. Players drop in and drop out, not knowing whether they're in the picture for which club at the weekend. I see no benefit in that at all. For me the whole benefit of loans are not only that a player gets more game time, but that they embed themselves in the culture of a different club and grow as players - a process which takes time. With less than 40 clubs in Britain however this isn't a huge market to loan into, perhaps clubs should look further afield across the channel maybe. It’s the fact that a loan is slightly more permanent that means it’s useless. It’s not like football were players outside the top 25-30 players are being sent out on loan. In RL a lot of the time it’s the players 18 -25 in the match day squads that need somewhere to play. So you can’t send them away for 3 months as a couple of injuries and they would be needed in the first team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Route66 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Fans who follow their local league 1 clubs have enough to put up with,without suffering the indignity of super league reserves being thrust on them,no from me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 5 hours ago, bobbruce said: It’s the fact that a loan is slightly more permanent that means it’s useless. It’s not like football were players outside the top 25-30 players are being sent out on loan. In RL a lot of the time it’s the players 18 -25 in the match day squads that need somewhere to play. So you can’t send them away for 3 months as a couple of injuries and they would be needed in the first team. I think that's hitting on another issue altogether really and is more of a sad indictment of the make up and usage of SL squads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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