30-31 Mar: The Coral Challenge Cup 4th Round Match Thread

[Moscow01]

The demise of North Wales is quite sad really. A few years ago they’re at the top end of League 1 playing at the Racecourse in front of 1000 supporters. In 2019 they’re playing at the worst ground in League 1 with a couple of hundred die hards in attendance. Not sure where they go from here really - on paper they have a talented squad. 

[RLNew]

10 minutes ago, Hemi4561 said:

Who was coach in 2017?

My mistake sorry, should of continued to build from then I guess. 

[Hemi4561]

They have built, I have watched the lower end of l1 for the last 4 years, a different team each year. However the loss of Gloucester, Hemel and Oxford, teams which IMO NWC would have beaten easily are no longer there. Not only is this about absolute wins, it is also about fixtures, NWC have played teams, and come close to beating teams, which all things being equal are not going to be in the bottom 3.If any ot the 3 teams I've mentioned that no longer play in L1, or WWR, had been in NWC's first fixtures they like ad not would have had at least 1 win and the confidence that brings. 

[Bearman]

All today has shown is that teams that at top of the NCL are a match for teams in League .

It's a shame that we do not have a pyramid. But often the reason that we do not have one is because of ambition by some clubs and the game itself.

[Moscow01]

8 minutes ago, Hemi4561 said:

They have built, I have watched the lower end of l1 for the last 4 years, a different team each year. However the loss of Gloucester, Hemel and Oxford, teams which IMO NWC would have beaten easily are no longer there. Not only is this about absolute wins, it is also about fixtures, NWC have played teams, and come close to beating teams, which all things being equal are not going to be in the bottom 3.If any ot the 3 teams I've mentioned that no longer play in L1, or WWR, had been in NWC's first fixtures they like ad not would have had at least 1 win and the confidence that brings. 

North Wales Crusaders lost plenty of times to Gloucester. Three times in 2017 alone. 

[Chronicler of Chiswick]

A truly awful result for the Cru for what on paper looked a reasonable team. I'm not a great one for sacking coaches, but losing all three league games so far when they were there for the taking and now this has to lead the a long, hard think about what needs to be done. Well done Thatto Heath, though, for grabbing the chance when it was offered to them - I wouldn't have any of your players or supporters' heads tomorrow for all the money in Bill Gates's bank account, enjoy.

[Moscow01]

You’d expect Crusaders to finish above Coventry, West Wales and possibly London. I can’t see any other team that would finish below them. Keighley possibly. 

[Hemi4561]

7 minutes ago, Moscow01 said:

North Wales Crusaders lost plenty of times to Gloucester. Three times in 2017 alone. 

I was following Gloucester in 2017, I stand by my statement

[Hemi4561]

15 minutes ago, Moscow01 said:

You’d expect Crusaders to finish above Coventry, West Wales and possibly London. I can’t see any other team that would finish below them. Keighley possibly. 

Keighley this season are an anomaly, but I have supported them since 1989 so am used to it. 

[Man of Kent]

Is anyone surprised by the Fatto Heath result? I would have been more surprised if Crusaders won 

[thestatman]

48 minutes ago, Bearman said:

All today has shown is that teams that at top of the NCL are a match for teams in League .

It's a shame that we do not have a pyramid. But often the reason that we do not have one is because of ambition by some clubs and the game itself.

There is no lack of ambition at Thatto Heath Crusaders. But if we attempted to move to League One we wouldn’t get any funding from the RFL as we’re not an expansion team, we would struggle to get grants to upgrade the facilities further once we enter the professional realms, we would have to sacrifice training slots and use of the facilities of our junior, girls, womens, masters teams just so our semi-amateur team could have the run of the place. We wouldn’t be able to run three open age teams for players of differing abilities, every Saturday through the season as we would have to pay out wages/expenses to players who are turning up for the money rather than because they want to be part of a group of players that are happy to pay £12 a month to receive great coaching from unpaid volunteers in order to be part of something with there mates. 

I’m not wanting to bag the expansion teams as there are great people doing a lot of great work to make it happen, but I’d question whether the RFL might be spending their money more wisely if they were investing it in heartland community clubs as opposed to funding expansion teams who are only dragging players in from the the NCL, NWML, YML etc., Training in heartland areas and in turn weakening those competitions from where they are dragging those players from, all for the promise of £200 a win and £50 a loss. (Which by the time lads have trained twice a week and travelled to god knows where on a weekend probably isn’t even minimum wage).

Meanwhile they’re doing very little to produce new talent from the grassroots in those areas all because they are trying their hardest to make ends meet and keep their head above water.

So next time you suggest there’s a lack of ambition in the NCL,  I’d suggest that you do some research into the 50 odd clubs working their stones off and scraping round to pay the bills, while producing 99.9% of the talent for expansion teams and getting next to nothing in return. 

But Hey ho, if you see it as a lack of ambition then that’s what it must be. 

Good luck in the future. I’m pretty confident we and the rest of the ambitionless NCL teams will still be here doing great work in the community 20/30/50 years time, producing the next generation of rugby league stars.

[Man of Kent]

4 minutes ago, thestatman said:

Tremendous post

This is only going to become more relevant if/when central funding is cut to League 1.

[Moscow01]

There’s a lot of lads who play in the NCL who would walk into League 1 squads. The reason they don’t is because they can’t commit to training two or three times a week and 600-mile round journeys on Sundays. Teams in the NCL are happy with what they’ve got. To suggest they lack ambition is laughable. 

 

[Bearman]

23 minutes ago, thestatman said:

There is no lack of ambition at Thatto Heath Crusaders. But if we attempted to move to League One we wouldn’t get any funding from the RFL as we’re not an expansion team, we would struggle to get grants to upgrade the facilities further once we enter the professional realms, we would have to sacrifice training slots and use of the facilities of our junior, girls, womens, masters teams just so our semi-amateur team could have the run of the place. We wouldn’t be able to run three open age teams for players of differing abilities, every Saturday through the season as we would have to pay out wages/expenses to players who are turning up for the money rather than because they want to be part of a group of players that are happy to pay £12 a month to receive great coaching from unpaid volunteers in order to be part of something with there mates. 

I’m not wanting to bag the expansion teams as there are great people doing a lot of great work to make it happen, but I’d question whether the RFL might be spending their money more wisely if they were investing it in heartland community clubs as opposed to funding expansion teams who are only dragging players in from the the NCL, NWML, YML etc., Training in heartland areas and in turn weakening those competitions from where they are dragging those players from, all for the promise of £200 a win and £50 a loss. (Which by the time lads have trained twice a week and travelled to god knows where on a weekend probably isn’t even minimum wage).

Meanwhile they’re doing very little to produce new talent from the grassroots in those areas all because they are trying their hardest to make ends meet and keep their head above water.

So next time you suggest there’s a lack of ambition in the NCL,  I’d suggest that you do some research into the 50 odd clubs working their stones off and scraping round to pay the bills, while producing 99.9% of the talent for expansion teams and getting next to nothing in return. 

But Hey ho, if you see it as a lack of ambition then that’s what it must be. 

Good luck in the future. I’m pretty confident we and the rest of the ambitionless NCL teams will still be here doing great work in the community 20/30/50 years time, producing the next generation of rugby league stars.

My words were unjustified. I tried a bit of a sound bite for a very complicated situation.

I know that clubs like yours and lots of others are doing sterling work. I apologise if I came across as ham fisted.

Brilliant game today. Have a fantastic night and best of luck in the next round.

[EssexRL]

50 minutes ago, thestatman said:

There is no lack of ambition at Thatto Heath Crusaders. But if we attempted to move to League One we wouldn’t get any funding from the RFL as we’re not an expansion team, we would struggle to get grants to upgrade the facilities further once we enter the professional realms, we would have to sacrifice training slots and use of the facilities of our junior, girls, womens, masters teams just so our semi-amateur team could have the run of the place. We wouldn’t be able to run three open age teams for players of differing abilities, every Saturday through the season as we would have to pay out wages/expenses to players who are turning up for the money rather than because they want to be part of a group of players that are happy to pay £12 a month to receive great coaching from unpaid volunteers in order to be part of something with there mates. 

I’m not wanting to bag the expansion teams as there are great people doing a lot of great work to make it happen, but I’d question whether the RFL might be spending their money more wisely if they were investing it in heartland community clubs as opposed to funding expansion teams who are only dragging players in from the the NCL, NWML, YML etc., Training in heartland areas and in turn weakening those competitions from where they are dragging those players from, all for the promise of £200 a win and £50 a loss. (Which by the time lads have trained twice a week and travelled to god knows where on a weekend probably isn’t even minimum wage).

Meanwhile they’re doing very little to produce new talent from the grassroots in those areas all because they are trying their hardest to make ends meet and keep their head above water.

So next time you suggest there’s a lack of ambition in the NCL,  I’d suggest that you do some research into the 50 odd clubs working their stones off and scraping round to pay the bills, while producing 99.9% of the talent for expansion teams and getting next to nothing in return. 

But Hey ho, if you see it as a lack of ambition then that’s what it must be. 

Good luck in the future. I’m pretty confident we and the rest of the ambitionless NCL teams will still be here doing great work in the community 20/30/50 years time, producing the next generation of rugby league stars.

Impressive. We need to find a way to support heartland AND expansion clubs. 

[thestatman]

52 minutes ago, Bearman said:

My words were unjustified. I tried a bit of a sound bite for a very complicated situation.

I know that clubs like yours and lots of others are doing sterling work. I apologise if I came across as ham fisted.

Brilliant game today. Have a fantastic night and best of luck in the next round.

I know that to be honest. You’d just provided a good opportunity to get a bit off my chest. Everyone has the best interest of the greatest game at heart. For all the work that is seen at community clubs on a matchday there are countless hours that go on behind the scenes before and after games. We’re all just in it for our own enjoyment but need to be appreciative of the efforts of each other no matter who or where we are, because if we all just push our own agenda the game won’t get anywhere.

[Spike]

2 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Is anyone surprised by the Fatto Heath result? I would have been more surprised if Crusaders won 

Which crusaders

[fearnowt]

Congratulations to Thatto Heath, thoroughly deserved the win today.

This was my first visit to Crusader Park, and have to say it's a very impressive setup. I watched the game from the balcony, and despite there being no grandstand, there was a real sense of occasion, and even had Madame Mayor joining us at one point.

Our coach Anthony Murray was inconsolable after the game, and it was a very subdued bus journey home. Our CEO was unable to attend the game due to work commitments but some of us saw him when we got back, and he looked thoroughly depressed. No game for us now for three weeks, until we play West Wales at home on Good Friday, with Wrexham FC playing at home at the same time and our landllords at Queensway charging double for the rent because it's a bank holiday. The joys of supporting a League 1 club when everything seems to be going against you.

Good luck Thatto in the next round, hope you get a decent draw and enjoy the occasion.

[yipyee]

3 hours ago, thestatman said:

There is no lack of ambition at Thatto Heath Crusaders. But if we attempted to move to League One we wouldn’t get any funding from the RFL as we’re not an expansion team, we would struggle to get grants to upgrade the facilities further once we enter the professional realms, we would have to sacrifice training slots and use of the facilities of our junior, girls, womens, masters teams just so our semi-amateur team could have the run of the place. We wouldn’t be able to run three open age teams for players of differing abilities, every Saturday through the season as we would have to pay out wages/expenses to players who are turning up for the money rather than because they want to be part of a group of players that are happy to pay £12 a month to receive great coaching from unpaid volunteers in order to be part of something with there mates. 

I’m not wanting to bag the expansion teams as there are great people doing a lot of great work to make it happen, but I’d question whether the RFL might be spending their money more wisely if they were investing it in heartland community clubs as opposed to funding expansion teams who are only dragging players in from the the NCL, NWML, YML etc., Training in heartland areas and in turn weakening those competitions from where they are dragging those players from, all for the promise of £200 a win and £50 a loss. (Which by the time lads have trained twice a week and travelled to god knows where on a weekend probably isn’t even minimum wage).

Meanwhile they’re doing very little to produce new talent from the grassroots in those areas all because they are trying their hardest to make ends meet and keep their head above water.

So next time you suggest there’s a lack of ambition in the NCL,  I’d suggest that you do some research into the 50 odd clubs working their stones off and scraping round to pay the bills, while producing 99.9% of the talent for expansion teams and getting next to nothing in return. 

But Hey ho, if you see it as a lack of ambition then that’s what it must be. 

Good luck in the future. I’m pretty confident we and the rest of the ambitionless NCL teams will still be here doing great work in the community 20/30/50 years time, producing the next generation of rugby league stars.

Thats a one eyed view indeed.

You don't need to bring in mercenaries and you don't need to pay players for being in league1 

You don't need to bin off other teams within the club...

Reserve teams women teams and unders teams are all part of the pro teams make ups (or aspiring to have) 

In fact very little would change, NCL is a national comp as is league1 

If anything the greater exposure should see an increase in sponsorship and fans.

I would say the step up from north west counties to NCL is far bigger than the step up to league1.

A lot of your post is more reflective of this step than the step to league1

Now I don't understand why NCL clubs do not want (ambition) to raise the bar on the clubs progression.

Why generate players for the pro leagues, generate players for your own club at a higher level!

If the NCL clubs are that good then prove it!

[Sparse Attendance]

Was there a decent crowd on today ?. 

[FearNothing]

Well done Thatto, deserved with the effort they put in.

 

As for us...one word - pitiful

[Moscow01]

30 minutes ago, yipyee said:

Thats a one eyed view indeed.

You don't need to bring in mercenaries and you don't need to pay players for being in league1 

You don't need to bin off other teams within the club...

Reserve teams women teams and unders teams are all part of the pro teams make ups (or aspiring to have) 

In fact very little would change, NCL is a national comp as is league1 

If anything the greater exposure should see an increase in sponsorship and fans.

I would say the step up from north west counties to NCL is far bigger than the step up to league1.

A lot of your post is more reflective of this step than the step to league1

Now I don't understand why NCL clubs do not want (ambition) to raise the bar on the clubs progression.

Why generate players for the pro leagues, generate players for your own club at a higher level!

If the NCL clubs are that good then prove it!

‘You don’t need to pay players to play in League 1’ you say which is absurd. You expect players to turn up to training two or three times a week and give up every weekend for six months and go unpaid?! 

 

 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

Makes you wonder whether there should be more competition between clubs at L1 and NCL level.

You'd think the 1895 Cup would be a great chance for this. 

[deluded pom?]

7 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Makes you wonder whether there should be more competition between clubs at L1 and NCL level.

You'd think the 1895 Cup would be a great chance for this. 

Especially with League 1 only having a twenty game regular season.

[thestatman]

8 hours ago, yipyee said:

Thats a one eyed view indeed.

You don't need to bring in mercenaries and you don't need to pay players for being in league1 

You don't need to bin off other teams within the club...

Reserve teams women teams and unders teams are all part of the pro teams make ups (or aspiring to have) 

In fact very little would change, NCL is a national comp as is league1 

If anything the greater exposure should see an increase in sponsorship and fans.

I would say the step up from north west counties to NCL is far bigger than the step up to league1.

A lot of your post is more reflective of this step than the step to league1

Now I don't understand why NCL clubs do not want (ambition) to raise the bar on the clubs progression.

Why generate players for the pro leagues, generate players for your own club at a higher level!

If the NCL clubs are that good then prove it!