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1895 cup


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4 minutes ago, dkw said:

So you want the club punished for breaking absolutely no rules whatsoever. Thats a great idea and not at all draconian.

To be fair, I'd be up for properly punishing any club, not just Workington, who find the prospect of playing rugby league matches just a bit too much of a burden for them.

The 1895 Cup has many faults and playing it after the Challenge Cup final is chief among them. But I believe it's a good competition overall and I am of the opinion that participating in it should be a requirement of membership of the semi professional ranks of rugby league.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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3 minutes ago, Eddie said:

And it completely devalued the FA Cup. 

The FA Cup was already well on the way to being devalued. But it was political manoeuvring on the part of the FA with regards to FIFA. Nothing to do with whether Manchester United thought that having to find some players midweek was too much of a chore.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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1 hour ago, hrtbps said:

What they should do is filter more money down to lower leagues so everyone can go full time and then they can participate in all the cups the RFL can dream up. 

Wholeheartedly agree, I hate that clubs are forced by lack of funding to be part time.  If we want the league to be seen as professional, the players should be at the very least full time professionals.

Possible problems will come from SL who dont want to lose their piece of the pie.  More money is needed!

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Across the whole of the 1895 Cup competition this year there were only 7 games played mid week , 3 in round 2 and all 4 quarter finals. 

2 of the 3 games in round 2 were because Bradford and Halifax had reach the quarter finals of the Challenge cup.

And of the 7 games only 1 involved a League 1 side.

So for most teams to get all the way to the final in the 1895 cup they would only need to field a team mid week once and that's not till the quarter finals.

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1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

To be fair, I'd be up for properly punishing any club, not just Workington, who find the prospect of playing rugby league matches just a bit too much of a burden for them.

The 1895 Cup has many faults and playing it after the Challenge Cup final is chief among them. But I believe it's a good competition overall and I am of the opinion that participating in it should be a requirement of membership of the semi professional ranks of rugby league.

Even if said clubs will lose a significant amount of money just by taking part? 

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1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

The FA Cup was already well on the way to being devalued. But it was political manoeuvring on the part of the FA with regards to FIFA. Nothing to do with whether Manchester United thought that having to find some players midweek was too much of a chore.

As i recall it was Utd saying they couldn’t play so many games as they had to enter the world club thing as well. The best solution would have been for them to play just players who didn’t go to Japan, and quite possibly win, but they wanted to prove a point so didn’t and that was the start of the rapid devaluation of the tournament, along with the money grabbing quest to finish 4th instead of winning things. 

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52 minutes ago, OriginalMrC said:

Even if said clubs will lose a significant amount of money just by taking part? 

Depends how much it is versus what they lose by just taking part in a league season without cup competitions.

My concern is that the cup competitions are part of the season and all clubs should be required to enter. If teams can't raise players for a few extra games a year then that is a concern. If the RFL can't make a decent cup competition attractive and well organised that is also a problem - but it's not one made better by allowing clubs to decide not to bother.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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17 minutes ago, Eddie said:

As i recall it was Utd saying they couldn’t play so many games as they had to enter the world club thing as well. The best solution would have been for them to play just players who didn’t go to Japan, and quite possibly win, but they wanted to prove a point so didn’t and that was the start of the rapid devaluation of the tournament, along with the money grabbing quest to finish 4th instead of winning things. 

It wasn't the start of the devaluation of the tournament. That had come years before.

It wasn't simply because United couldn't be bothered but because they couldn't be in two places at once. FIFA were determined to press on with their pointless Club World Championship and the FA were determined to get cosy with FIFA and so supported this arrangement.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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4 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

It wasn't the start of the devaluation of the tournament. That had come years before.

It wasn't simply because United couldn't be bothered but because they couldn't be in two places at once. FIFA were determined to press on with their pointless Club World Championship and the FA were determined to get cosy with FIFA and so supported this arrangement.

Yes but Utd could have played the players left at home instead of withdrawing completely, reserves, top youth players etc, given it a go and see how they got on. However they chose not to. 

And I agree the comp wasnt what it was 10 years+ before but it was still worth winning, unlike now where the big teams would rather be in the race for 4th and the rest are more bothered about staying up. Sod what the fans want. 

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4 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Utd could have played the players left at home instead of withdrawing completely, reserves, top youth players etc, given it a go and see how they got on.

Because putting out a reserve team wouldn't have devalued the competition?

Nice one.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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27 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Because putting out a reserve team wouldn't have devalued the competition?

Nice one.

Not half as much as not playing in it did. People would have understood it was just for the 3rd round when the first team were in Japan. 

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2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

The FA Cup is not a Football League competition. And there was somewhat more to it than that.

And it was 20 years ago and not been repeated.

When teams regularly play their second string goalkeeper, and others, in the FA Cup you know it's a second rate competition.  The 1895 competition is on a similar par.  Clubs are made to take part at a loss so that a few "blazers" can stand in front of a TV camera.

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18 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

When teams regularly play their second string goalkeeper, and others, in the FA Cup you know it's a second rate competition.  The 1895 competition is on a similar par.  Clubs are made to take part at a loss so that a few "blazers" can stand in front of a TV camera.

This is a genuine Q because I've lost track of where we are with how many teams will definitely be in League 1 next year. Without the 1895 Cup how many matches will Workington Town have, assuming they win one lose one in the Challenge Cup?

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

This is a genuine Q because I've lost track of where we are with how many teams will definitely be in League 1 next year. Without the 1895 Cup how many matches will Workington Town have, assuming they win one lose one in the Challenge Cup?

Twenty League One games, ten home and ten away. 

They're guaranteed one Challenge Cup game so a minimum of 21 games. 

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