OriginalMrC Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 1 hour ago, gingerjon said: Depends how much it is versus what they lose by just taking part in a league season without cup competitions. My concern is that the cup competitions are part of the season and all clubs should be required to enter. If teams can't raise players for a few extra games a year then that is a concern. If the RFL can't make a decent cup competition attractive and well organised that is also a problem - but it's not one made better by allowing clubs to decide not to bother. If a cup is part of a season it should be funded. For some league one clubs travelling costs alone make it unattractive and thats before even adding in payment to players and staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 24 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said: How do you quantify the devaluation of the FA Cup during the 1999/2000 campaign? I don’t need a formal quantification, I can remember the reaction to it from fans very clearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Clothesoff Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Just now, Eddie said: I don’t need a formal quantification, I can remember the reaction to it from fans very clearly. So it’s an opinion, then. Cheers Eduardo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 38 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said: So it’s an opinion, then. Cheers Eduardo. Sigh. Attendances are massively down since then, does that work for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Clothesoff Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 20 minutes ago, Eddie said: Sigh. Attendances are massively down since then, does that work for you? No. There’s plenty of reasons why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 1 hour ago, OriginalMrC said: If a cup is part of a season it should be funded. For some league one clubs travelling costs alone make it unattractive and thats before even adding in payment to players and staff. Isnt playing RL the business they are in? If they are choosing not to play games, what are they for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriginalMrC Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Dave T said: Isnt playing RL the business they are in? If they are choosing not to play games, what are they for? The key word there is business. Clubs are businesses and need to either be incentivised to play or regulated to do so. Currently the only incentive is the chance of silverwear at an empty Wembley stadium. For league one clubs who have a very small chance of winning that is no incentive. With midweek games and travel costs to contend with I can get exactly where they are coming from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Clothesoff Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Dave T said: Isnt playing RL the business they are in? If they are choosing not to play games, what are they for? We’re talking part-time athletes and a Sunday-Wednesday-Sunday schedule, which is likely with the 1895 Cup, is ridiculous for part-time players. If we’re getting rid of the Easter Monday game in Super League because of “player welfare”, you can’t expect part-time clubs to play three games in seven days. It’s one of the reasons why the 1895 Cup is so poorly executed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEANO Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 I don’t think people who watch sl understand how league 1 and championship finances work. Most clubs run at a loss. The more games they play the more they lose sometimes you have to take a step backwards to move forward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Frisky Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 26 minutes ago, DEANO said: I don’t think people who watch sl understand how league 1 and championship finances work. Most clubs run at a loss. The more games they play the more they lose Bet they would be loaded if they dont play any games at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEANO Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 24 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said: Bet they would be loaded if they dont play any games at all. Your absolutely correct. There are some teams that base their income on the hand our from the Rfl. A few years ago some league 1 clubs wanted fewer games so the money would go further sometimes you have to take a step backwards to move forward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 9 hours ago, DEANO said: I don’t think people who watch sl understand how league 1 and championship finances work. Most clubs run at a loss. The more games they play the more they lose I get it. In a completely different world, I once did a fundraising proposal for [redacted public gallery] that would involve them closing for six months for a rebuild. "How much will you lose during this period?", I asked. "Oh, if we don't open we make money ..." Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 12 hours ago, Oliver Clothesoff said: We’re talking part-time athletes and a Sunday-Wednesday-Sunday schedule, which is likely with the 1895 Cup, is ridiculous for part-time players. If we’re getting rid of the Easter Monday game in Super League because of “player welfare”, you can’t expect part-time clubs to play three games in seven days. It’s one of the reasons why the 1895 Cup is so poorly executed. How many 1895 Cup games will there be? Is the set up the same as per this year? Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Clothesoff Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 13 minutes ago, gingerjon said: How many 1895 Cup games will there be? Is the set up the same as per this year? I suppose it depends on how many take part but 4-5 games. 9/19 games were midweek this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticklebricks Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 21 hours ago, Chris Taylor said: Do you have a source for this? If a team declines - what is the punishment for this? They don’t get any prize money,punishment enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoopdog Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Example , Coventry v Workington Town 1895 cup Workington win , travel costs ,hotel and winning pay , total expenditure around £10k , share of the gate maximum 100 wouldn't pay for the coffees on way home. Prize money 0 Any other reasons ? Must be the only competition in professional sport with no prize money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 1 minute ago, snoopdog said: Example , Coventry v Workington Town 1895 cup Workington win , travel costs ,hotel and winning pay , total expenditure around £10k , share of the gate maximum 100 wouldn't pay for the coffees on way home. Prize money 0 Any other reasons ? Must be the only competition in professional sport with no prize money. But that isnt how a business is run. All income streams should not be linked only to matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 9 minutes ago, scotchy1 said: But surely clubs will be able to quite easily work out the value of the 1895 cup as it's own profit and cost centre. Whilst some things like sponsorship and others like fixed costs cant directly be attributed to it its not hard to work out at least a pretty accurate estimate of their contribution. The 1895 cup was and is a poor idea, a cheap money grab that is some cases ended up costing money. It's another example of the game being brave an innovative and basically inventing a concept which has already failed. The branding is sound, but that is pretty much the only aspect that should stay. I'd rather these clubs see it as their property, work together to make it a success (scheduling, sponsorship, sales etc) rather than just opting out, which shouldn't be an option. I don't agree it is a poor idea, the execution so far has been poor, but that can be worked on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkw Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 1 hour ago, scotchy1 said: There should be rules though. It's a pretty ridiculous that having somewhere to play and playing at the time and date advertised with the expected number of players playing is beyond clubs. I mean we arent talking about some Chapocoense style catastrophic incident, just injuries. It really does need addressing both in creating rules around it and figuring out why the structure or the game allows it to happen And if there were rules I`m sure Town would still be in the cup. As it stands though there is an option for clubs to forego playing in this cup, an option they have taken that is completely within the rules. I`m not sure why so many people are getting upset at this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 47 minutes ago, dkw said: And if there were rules I`m sure Town would still be in the cup. As it stands though there is an option for clubs to forego playing in this cup, an option they have taken that is completely within the rules. I`m not sure why so many people are getting upset at this. It's quite clear why people think it is wrong. If another half a dozen clubs take the same approach, what then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkw Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 37 minutes ago, Dave T said: It's quite clear why people think it is wrong. If another half a dozen clubs take the same approach, what then? Then the structure of the competitions is obviously problematic and needs looked at. Town have looked at empirical evidence and decided it will be detrimental to the club to enter the competition, it's a well investigated business decision, which is seen as the correct thing to do within the rules, or would you rather we just enter it knowing it could badly damage the club financially, possibly to a breaking point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 2 hours ago, dkw said: Then the structure of the competitions is obviously problematic and needs looked at. Town have looked at empirical evidence and decided it will be detrimental to the club to enter the competition, it's a well investigated business decision, which is seen as the correct thing to do within the rules, or would you rather we just enter it knowing it could badly damage the club financially, possibly to a breaking point? This isn't anything personal to Workington. This isn't a way for the sport to go about its business. We should address the issues rather than allowing clubs to just pull out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoopdog Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 7 hours ago, Dave T said: But that isnt how a business is run. All income streams should not be linked only to matches. Where did I say it did Dave ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkw Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 1 hour ago, Dave T said: This isn't anything personal to Workington. This isn't a way for the sport to go about its business. We should address the issues rather than allowing clubs to just pull out. I fully agree with that, I just dont understand people getting at workington for choosing an option that they believe is the correct one for the club, an option offered to them thats fully within the rules. It's very odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themainbrace Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 I went past an AB Sundecks lorry on the way to work this morning and it was advertising the 1895 cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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