Wigan Warriors forward Gabe Hamlin fails drugs test

[dkw]

2 hours ago, LR23 said:

To clarify - I'm not promoting anything (merely saying it isn't 'black and white') and should have linked back to my previous post where I explained why I thought a two year ban for recreational drug use was way over the top. 

But it doesn't matter if its way over the top, that's the rules, all the players know that the rule. So if your dumb enough ti break that rule and get caught them you get a 2 year ban, harsh or not.

[LR23]

4 minutes ago, dkw said:

But it doesn't matter if its way over the top, that's the rules, all the players know that the rule. So if your dumb enough ti break that rule and get caught them you get a 2 year ban, harsh or not.

I don't disagree - he is obviously a bit of a plonker (especially with that excuse) and he knew the possible consequences. I'm not saying he should get a reduced ban just because I, and a few others, don't like the rules, I'm saying it might be worth having another look at the rules in the near future.

[Red Willow]

Is there any danger to players when someone plays with a drug such as cocaine in their system?

 

Would his judgement be impaired, with the possibility of causing injuries to others?

If so then the reckless nature of the drug use would warrant a ban.

[bobbruce]

3 hours ago, LR23 said:

I don't disagree - he is obviously a bit of a plonker (especially with that excuse) and he knew the possible consequences. I'm not saying he should get a reduced ban just because I, and a few others, don't like the rules, I'm saying it might be worth having another look at the rules in the near future.

I don’t think they are our rules to alter we are governed by WADA on things like this. 

[Jim Prendle]

16 hours ago, The British Lion said:

I wonder if the Wigan Club will now hold special match day inclusive events for 'anti drug' taking and its dangers, which ruins lives, and in other cases, ends them very sadly. Perhaps they could target particular players guilty of the offence from visiting teams and make a public example out of them? 

Sounds like a good idea. They could start with Thuggery Thursday, and invite the Wire squad.

[dkw]

4 hours ago, Red Willow said:

Is there any danger to players when someone plays with a drug such as cocaine in their system?

 

Would his judgement be impaired, with the possibility of causing injuries to others?

If so then the reckless nature of the drug use would warrant a ban.

Absolutely there is a danger, having an 18 stone player colliding with another at a combined speed of 40mph is dangerous enough, when that player isn't fully in control the danger is amplified enormously. 

[LR23]

3 hours ago, bobbruce said:

I don’t think they are our rules to alter we are governed by WADA on things like this. 

Not exactly. As someone else has mentioned WADA don’t prohibit use ‘out of competition’. And from what I read they are about to reduce bans for in competition use of a few recreational drugs like coke - will be interesting to see if we follow their lead.

[RP London]

5 minutes ago, LR23 said:

Not exactly. As someone else has mentioned WADA don’t prohibit use ‘out of competition’. And from what I read they are about to reduce bans for in competition use of a few recreational drugs like coke - will be interesting to see if we follow their lead.

It’s a UKAD ban though rather than an RFL ban.. assume they go by WADA guidelines and RFL sign up to UKAD. 

[bobbruce]

7 minutes ago, LR23 said:

Not exactly. As someone else has mentioned WADA don’t prohibit use ‘out of competition’. And from what I read they are about to reduce bans for in competition use of a few recreational drugs like coke - will be interesting to see if we follow their lead.

Yes I said it but Hamlin was caught in competition that’s why it’s out of our (RFLs) hands. 

[LR23]

Fair enough- my bad chaps!

How do the NRL stay compliant to the WADA code but implement reduced bans for recreational drugs then?

https://www.nrl.com/wellbeing-and-education/healthwise/anti-doping-policy/

[The British Lion]

6 hours ago, Jim Prendle said:

Sounds like a good idea. They could start with Thuggery Thursday, and invite the Wire squad

Hi Jim. Not interacted with you before. Hello. 

I have many Wigan RL friends. This wasn't a swipe at Wigan fans. Yet, a comment on a reckless administration calling what it a confrontational match day....like it or not, it is confrontational, and riding off the back of offence culture.

Thuggery Thursday - You are referring to Chris Hill, no doubt. I make no excuses for his poor tackle and aggressive play....

However, do I need to mention Ben Flower in the Grand Final? Actual intention in the spotlight. I won't exhaust the list. Is he still in the sport?

My point was - no matter what the club, what a ridiculous, dangerous, and actually, very 'exclusive' not inclusive event which victimises a single person. Horrendous. Undignified. Embarrassing.

[Jim Prendle]

45 minutes ago, The British Lion said:

Hi Jim. Not interacted with you before. Hello. 

I have many Wigan RL friends. This wasn't a swipe at Wigan fans. Yet, a comment on a reckless administration calling what it a confrontational match day....like it or not, it is confrontational, and riding off the back of offence culture.

Thuggery Thursday - You are referring to Chris Hill, no doubt. I make no excuses for his poor tackle and aggressive play....

However, do I need to mention Ben Flower in the Grand Final? Actual intention in the spotlight. I won't exhaust the list. Is he still in the sport?

My point was - no matter what the club, what a ridiculous, dangerous, and actually, very 'exclusive' not inclusive event which victimises a single person. Horrendous. Undignified. Embarrassing.

"Horrendous, Undignified, Embarrassing"? Are you having a pop at Wigan, or describing Warrington's Social Media Strategy?

"Offence Culture"? What the hell is that? Have you just made that up? Or was it the brainchild of your oafish CEO?

Ben Flowers act was ridiculous, but is history.It must be tough taking the historical high ground when Wire actually signed Les Boyd back in the day. Some of the stuff he was banned for makes Flowers actions look like a friendly love tap.

[The British Lion]

13 minutes ago, Jim Prendle said:

"Horrendous, Undignified, Embarrassing"? Are you having a pop at Wigan, or describing Warrington's Social Media Strategy?

"Offence Culture"? What the hell is that? Have you just made that up? Or was it the brainchild of your oafish CEO?

Ben Flowers act was ridiculous, but is history.It must be tough taking the historical high ground when Wire actually signed Les Boyd back in the day. Some of the stuff he was banned for makes Flowers actions look like a friendly love tap

Jim, you are clearly blinded by the love for your club. 'a friendly love tap by Flower....' Please do re-watch this without the bias spectacles....

In terms of Les Boyd, yes, a wholly different era and still should have been unacceptable. I could comment on Kelvin Skerrett, Neil Cowie et al in the 90's...that's not the thread. 

If we are going to call out Folau for his views on LGBTQ.....Surely we need to examine MUCH MORE harmful issues - like drug abuse, players 'glassing' each other - yes mate it happened in the Wigan team.... drink driving which kills people (im having to repeat myself - again).

Yes, offence culture is real - its influenced by the media and an uprising of minority groups, and then the poplusus demands where their support of the offence lies. 

If you're remembering times of Les Boyd, and forgive me, id expect you to be a mere 'out of context' with this - and neither did i live in this context - but my son, who is 20, manages to give me a level, but factual explanation.

Allow me to come back to the context of this actual discussion between you and I.

Wigan have decided that its an offence for Israel Folau to be playing, and therefore declared their match v Catalans a 'LGBTQ' match. Honestly, is that confrontational or dealing with the matter?Also, why are they not dealing with more life threatening issues such as drug abuse, deperession, violoence. And forgive me, I don't remember the Wigan club declaring a game day for male suicide - akaTerry Newton.

 

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

17 hours ago, Red Willow said:

Is there any danger to players when someone plays with a drug such as cocaine in their system?

 

Would his judgement be impaired, with the possibility of causing injuries to others?

If so then the reckless nature of the drug use would warrant a ban.

Yes, that's partly why it's classed as performance enhancing - it also gives a feeling of invincibility and increases risk taking. Standard tariff for being caught doping is a 4 year ban BUT this can be reduced in some circumstances. With cocaine this is usually because the drug was taken before the 'in competition' period started (the analytical report will confirm when) and the ban gets reduced  (normally to 2 years).

[The Future is League]

I presume now with the new moral code contact that the Super League chairmen have just brought in Hamlin has no future in British Rugby League.

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, The Future is League said:

I presume now with the new moral code contact that the Super League chairmen have just brought in Hamlin has no future in British Rugby League.

It isn't difficult to understand that the game deals with drug offences through WADA/UKDA and he has been banned for 2 years. Many are arguing that is a harsh punishment.

[The Future is League]

3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It isn't difficult to understand that the game deals with drug offences through WADA/UKDA and he has been banned for 2 years. Many are arguing that is a harsh punishment.

I think he's a lucky boy.

First drug offence 4 years in my book and 2nd offence life ban

[Dave T]

5 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

I think he's a lucky boy.

First drug offence 4 years in my book and 2nd offence life ban

I don't disagree, in the verdict there is rationale on why it was reduced to 2 years from 4.

[Click]

9 hours ago, The British Lion said:

Jim, you are clearly blinded by the love for your club. 'a friendly love tap by Flower....' Please do re-watch this without the bias spectacles....

In terms of Les Boyd, yes, a wholly different era and still should have been unacceptable. I could comment on Kelvin Skerrett, Neil Cowie et al in the 90's...that's not the thread. 

If we are going to call out Folau for his views on LGBTQ.....Surely we need to examine MUCH MORE harmful issues - like drug abuse, players 'glassing' each other - yes mate it happened in the Wigan team.... drink driving which kills people (im having to repeat myself - again).

Yes, offence culture is real - its influenced by the media and an uprising of minority groups, and then the poplusus demands where their support of the offence lies. 

If you're remembering times of Les Boyd, and forgive me, id expect you to be a mere 'out of context' with this - and neither did i live in this context - but my son, who is 20, manages to give me a level, but factual explanation.

Allow me to come back to the context of this actual discussion between you and I.

Wigan have decided that its an offence for Israel Folau to be playing, and therefore declared their match v Catalans a 'LGBTQ' match. Honestly, is that confrontational or dealing with the matter?Also, why are they not dealing with more life threatening issues such as drug abuse, deperession, violoence. And forgive me, I don't remember the Wigan club declaring a game day for male suicide - akaTerry Newton.

 

Why do people always say this about any company or club that decide to do anything for charity?

Well - "why that charity that affects foot banks, there is poverty in the world! Millions are dying!"

Why do clubs/companies have to support ALL issues if they just highlight 1? Why do you have to compare a club doing a LGBT+ event, and complaining about it because it isn't about suicide or drug abuse?

[lucky 7]

11 hours ago, The British Lion said:

Jim, you are clearly blinded by the love for your club. 'a friendly love tap by Flower....' Please do re-watch this without the bias spectacles....

In terms of Les Boyd, yes, a wholly different era and still should have been unacceptable. I could comment on Kelvin Skerrett, Neil Cowie et al in the 90's...that's not the thread. 

If we are going to call out Folau for his views on LGBTQ.....Surely we need to examine MUCH MORE harmful issues - like drug abuse, players 'glassing' each other - yes mate it happened in the Wigan team.... drink driving which kills people (im having to repeat myself - again).

Yes, offence culture is real - its influenced by the media and an uprising of minority groups, and then the poplusus demands where their support of the offence lies. 

If you're remembering times of Les Boyd, and forgive me, id expect you to be a mere 'out of context' with this - and neither did i live in this context - but my son, who is 20, manages to give me a level, but factual explanation.

Allow me to come back to the context of this actual discussion between you and I.

Wigan have decided that its an offence for Israel Folau to be playing, and therefore declared their match v Catalans a 'LGBTQ' match. Honestly, is that confrontational or dealing with the matter?Also, why are they not dealing with more life threatening issues such as drug abuse, deperession, violoence. And forgive me, I don't remember the Wigan club declaring a game day for male suicide - akaTerry Newton.

 

Did Ben Flower still play for Wigan after this grub act, or did moralistic Lenegan sack him?

[Click]

3 minutes ago, lucky 7 said:

Did Ben Flower still play for Wigan after this grub act, or did moralistic Lenegan sack him?

You might have a good point if Flower hadn't expressed a lot of remorse since this incident.

[Dave T]

3 minutes ago, Click said:

You might have a good point if Flower hadn't expressed a lot of remorse since this incident.

This is a good example. Nobody will convince me that Flower wasn't sorry for acting like an absolute Grade A thug, but some people will dismiss his apology as a cynical ploy to save his job. But he showed remorse, was supported by the game, not thrown on the scrap heap and has come back with no issues. People make mistakes. He accepted it was a mistake, apologised and was supported accordingly.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/apr/13/ben-flower-lance-hohaia-wigan-st-helens-grand-final-super-league-sent-off-punch-ban-regret

 

[Davo5]

19 hours ago, dkw said:

Absolutely there is a danger, having an 18 stone player colliding with another at a combined speed of 40mph is dangerous enough, when that player isn't fully in control the danger is amplified enormously. 

It is highly unlikely Hamlin played high on cocaine,given a high lasts at the most 30 mins and is followed by a huge crash which would make normal day to day activities difficult never mind playing a professional sport.

[The Future is League]

Well i think we can safely say now that with the new rules in place Hamlin wont ever play in Super League again.

[RMBJ]

On 05/02/2020 at 20:09, dkw said:

Absolutely there is a danger, having an 18 stone player colliding with another at a combined speed of 40mph is dangerous enough, when that player isn't fully in control the danger is amplified enormously. 

Without going into the science, the collisions don't aggregate impact speed as you think they do. 

Myrhbusters explain it in this video using cars.