Clubs vote in favour of New York and Ottawa

[Oxford]

5 hours ago, Omott91 said:

What they can do for the game.

 Renewed interest in the game.

 A new, passionate set of fans in two new countries.

A new market for sponsors.

Rl articles in major foreign newspapers and media outlets.

More opportunities for players.

Increases the global appeal of rl.

All the while not costing the Rfl a single cent.

That is your answer parky.

I see you left out RL actually appearing in the London based media ( AKA the nearly national Dailies) but I do understand that without Jesus or some other diety that  may be a bridge too far!

[Oliver Clothesoff]

9 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Novelty teams attract extra interest for a while , but once fans see it's just Leigh in a different shirt that can reduce , this year they are at least a little more exotic with Stanley and Lutele , a team with 3\4 actual Canadians would definitely be more interesting 

Similarily a full time 2 million pound team will attract fans hoping to see their team take essentially a SL scalp , but that will drop off in time , they will hopefully go up and be out of the Championship until another one comes along , but ultimately they won't help the lower tiers long term 

Would it be more interesting to see some Canadian RU imports that nobody has ever heard of or to see genuine Rugby League players? I know what camp I’m in and it’s not the one where you get to watch blokes you’ve never heard of getting a game in RL because of their nationality. 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

5 hours ago, Captain Survival said:

Perez indicated in his remarks in Salford that he was looking to really grow the game at all levels and Ottawa already has a base of rugby at youth to university levels so he is not starting from scratch.   Having a pro team will just redouble interest in the sport.  In my opinion it will be easier to grow youth leagues in Ottawa - the city is just better set up for it.

I think Ottawa will draw significant numbers in its first season.  I expect you will see Toronto pop down for a preseason trial to help ramp up interest and probably Toronto go to NY as well for a game.  I am even tempted to suggest that Ottawa will draw as much as Toronto.   The field is so easily accessible.

Sounds very positive for Ottawa. I have a lot of confidence in them succeeding.

It's a shame there aren't any people like this in France because there are a number of teams ready-made for this approach.

5 hours ago, Captain Survival said:

As for NY, I am going to draw on my past finance and business experience for my thoughts. This includes having been involved in financing of two major sporting organizations, one which owns the Toronto Maple Leafs, the other the Dallas Cowboys.  American culture surrounding sports is very much go big (or go home in some instances).   No one makes more out of a molehill then any American promoting a professional sport. I suspect the pockets of the US parties are deep.  I don't know anything about the public promoters but I think there might be a legitimate concern about attendance.  I have no doubt they will draw thousands of spectators but I wonder what they need to draw to approach viability.  Is 10k enough?  I don't know the answer.  Its a good stadium and on public transit but it is a bit remote by NY standards.

One plus is that there are approx 50k Canadians living within reasonable commute of the stadium.  This will help for the draw for a few games as will the very sizeable UK expats living there.  And rugby does have some presence.  These 3 are most likely the initial target markets of the promoters.

That said might another market like Philadelphia, Montreal or Baltimore been a better first target?  I believe this is a valid question however,  I think from an American perspective if a pro sport is going to be successful NY is likely one of the first places one has to test the waters in order to gain credibility. 

Target for who? The RFL or Ricky Bilby? The game hasn't targeted anyone, remember. Our expansion strategy is to let them come to us, not the other way round.

[Damien]

Just now, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Target for who? The RFL or Ricky Bilby? The game hasn't targeted anyone, remember. Our expansion strategy is to let them come to us, not the other way round.

Its amazing how many time this has to be pointed out. 

[GUBRATS]

1 hour ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Would it be more interesting to see some Canadian RU imports that nobody has ever heard of or to see genuine Rugby League players? I know what camp I’m in and it’s not the one where you get to watch blokes you’ve never heard of getting a game in RL because of their nationality. 

I hadn't heard of Blake Wallace,Lutele,Stanley or the ' grub ' Macrone before they signed for Toronto but I'd be much happier if any of them had been Canadian , hopefully that is what Perez means when he says he wants to do things differently at OttAwa , maybe he has realised that converting gridiron players isn't a viable option , but Union players might provide him with the base material to put Canadians in Canadian clubs RL shirts 

[Oliver Clothesoff]

Just now, GUBRATS said:

I hadn't heard of Blake Wallace,Lutele,Stanley or the ' grub ' Macrone before they signed for Toronto but I'd be much happier if any of them had been Canadian , hopefully that is what Perez means when he says he wants to do things differently at OttAwa , maybe he has realised that converting gridiron players isn't a viable option , but Union players might provide him with the base material to put Canadians in Canadian clubs RL shirts 

That’s your own ignorance to Rugby League that isn’t under your nose then. McCrone, Chase Stanley and Ricky Leutele were NRL players before going to Toronto. 

 

[tms]

8 hours ago, The Parksider said:

Did the bigger ambitious Championship clubs like Widnes, Bradford, Halifax, Featherstone, York and Leigh vote for these North American clubs to come in 

according to the FEV website we did

FEATHERSTONE ROVERS officials have expressed their excitement for the sport’s future, following yesterday’s meeting of Championship and League 1 clubs, which found overall support for proposed overseas clubs.

Rovers Chairman Mark Campbell said: “I’m delighted that the majority of Championship and League One clubs share everyone’s ambition for our competition.

“As the clock ticks on the current TV deal with Sky, this opportunity has come at a great time and can’t be missed.

He added: “Both presentations were well received and there's genuine excitement for what this can do to enhance the exposure of our great product, throughout the world.”

Featherstone Rovers CEO Davide Longo said: “We think it’s hugely important that ambitious clubs work together to grow the sport.

“Whether that’s traditional clubs like Featherstone, or new clubs like those in North America, cooperation is the key,

[GUBRATS]

Just now, Oliver Clothesoff said:

That’s your own ignorance to Rugby League that isn’t under your nose then. McCrone, Chase Stanley and Ricky Leutele were NRL players before going to Toronto. 

 

I have no interest in the NRL , I find the games boring and sterile , that is an opinion I am entitled to , and I don't appreciate being called ignorant , it isn't compulsory to have knowledge of the sport on the other side of the world , I'm sure the vast majority of Aussie RL fans have little to no knowledge of the UK game 

[Damien]

11 hours ago, westside said:

Which part isn’t? Asking honestly, I’m not familiar with the history.

That RL somehow became what it is on the back of copying from Canadian Football and copying from a Canadian teams Rugby Union tour to the UK. This is based on some post on a forum with more holes than a colander which has been disproved time and again. None of it stacks up. Even the basic premise of this was that Rugby League would have seen this and copied because this team played St Helens, until it was pointed out St Helens is the name of the ground where Swansea Rugby Union played. That is just the start of the flaws.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

35 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

I have no interest in the NRL , I find the games boring and sterile , that is an opinion I am entitled to , and I don't appreciate being called ignorant , it isn't compulsory to have knowledge of the sport on the other side of the world , I'm sure the vast majority of Aussie RL fans have little to no knowledge of the UK game 

Whether you appreciate being called ignorant or not doesn't change the fact that you are ignorant to that area of rugby league. Facts don't care about your feelings.

I'm pretty ignorant to rugby league in other parts of the world also. It's only insulting if you want it to be.

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Whether you appreciate being called ignorant or not doesn't change the fact that you are ignorant to that area of rugby league. Facts don't care about your feelings.

I'm pretty ignorant to rugby league in other parts of the world also. It's only insulting if you want it to be.

We aren't talking about Aussie superstars here , the point being the vast majority of UK RL fans ( those that attend actual games rather than those sat at home watching ' box ' sport ) most likely hadn't heard of those players either , but they would probably all have been more interested and impressed with real Canadians ( even if they weren't as good ) wearing those shirts 

As I put , hopefully Mr Perez can get any new projects to make better efforts at getting home nationalities in their teams , that is what will ultimately help to grow the sport in NA and by association over here IMO , and it would seem the powers that be in SL currently 

[North but south]

13 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

We aren't talking about Aussie superstars here , the point being the vast majority of UK RL fans ( those that attend actual games rather than those sat at home watching ' box ' sport ) most likely hadn't heard of those players either , but they would probably all have been more interested and impressed with real Canadians ( even if they weren't as good ) wearing those shirts 

Why would they have been more impressed on where the players came from? I don't think I've ever met anyone who really cared what country a player came from, it's more how good they are. In fact I'd even go as far as more UK RL fans would be impressed if they did managed to sign a superstar from the NRL than the fact they had a 19 year old Canadian playing for them in the first year. 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

3 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

We aren't talking about Aussie superstars here , the point being the vast majority of UK RL fans ( those that attend actual games rather than those sat at home watching ' box ' sport ) most likely hadn't heard of those players either , but they would probably all have been more interested and impressed with real Canadians ( even if they weren't as good ) wearing those shirts 

Most probably wouldn't know who the Canadian players were to even have the chance to be impressed by them. I don't think as many people in Canada care about this as the people outside of it.

 

6 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

As I put , hopefully Mr Perez can get any new projects to make better efforts at getting home nationalities in their teams , that is what will ultimately help to grow the sport in NA and by association over here IMO , and it would seem the powers that be in SL currently 

I'd say that what would ultimately help grow the sport in Canada would be it's awareness in the public of Canada.

Attendance and participation are 2 completely different beasts. Toronto could be hugely successful commercially, with huge attendances, sponsorship deals, TV deals and winning trophies all through not producing a single player of their own. That is still growing the sport - it's growing it commercially.

They could also produce a team of players, win trophies but have next to no interest from the general public and lack of sponsorship or TV interest. That is also still growing the sport - just through participation.

You need one to do the other in both scenarios. You need money to produce players (money pays for development)  and you need players to make money (players are the product).

In a world where there is a lot of money, it's a quicker return to buy in the product than produce it. You don't see supermarkets making many of their own products until they are huge and it makes financial sense. They don't do it to just make someone else happy.

[GUBRATS]

27 minutes ago, North but south said:

Why would they have been more impressed on where the players came from? I don't think I've ever met anyone who really cared what country a player came from, it's more how good they are. In fact I'd even go as far as more UK RL fans would be impressed if they did managed to sign a superstar from the NRL than the fact they had a 19 year old Canadian playing for them in the first year. 

' A ' Superstar , fine , but have any of them been that impressive really ? 

To me , yes a 19yr old Canadian would have impressed me more , it would have shown they were serious about finding NA talent , as a Leigh fan I was fully aware that their coach would not be interested in any form of development , he didn't have that kind of mind set , never has , hopefully any new clubs will work harder on that 

 

[GUBRATS]

8 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Most probably wouldn't know who the Canadian players were to even have the chance to be impressed by them. I don't think as many people in Canada care about this as the people outside of it.

 

I'd say that what would ultimately help grow the sport in Canada would be it's awareness in the public of Canada.

Attendance and participation are 2 completely different beasts. Toronto could be hugely successful commercially, with huge attendances, sponsorship deals, TV deals and winning trophies all through not producing a single player of their own. That is still growing the sport - it's growing it commercially.

They could also produce a team of players, win trophies but have next to no interest from the general public and lack of sponsorship or TV interest. That is also still growing the sport - just through participation.

You need one to do the other in both scenarios. You need money to produce players (money pays for development)  and you need players to make money (players are the product).

In a world where there is a lot of money, it's a quicker return to buy in the product than produce it. You don't see supermarkets making many of their own products until they are huge and it makes financial sense. They don't do it to just make someone else happy.

As I put personally I don't think any new NA clubs should be allowed in unless the SL clubs make it perfectly clear they will be allowed into SL , be that through on field P and R or through genuine licence\franchise criteria , it is completely pointless to have the lower tiers vote these clubs in only for SL to then refuse to let them into SL , these clubs are only interested in being in SL , there is no point to them setting up to play three or four seasons of lower tier RL then folding due to having their ambitions stopped 

So they have to be given their criteria NOW , if that includes producing players they need to be told NOW 

But back to the actual point at discussion , the argument was that it was the big city ' name ' ie , Toronto a huge Canadian city playing in these small northern towns that meant we saw most clubs get their biggest attendances despite no away fans , yes it was , but it won't continue , in Toronto's situation it was and is a novelty , this year those rises in attendance won't be as big , yes as the club with a huge spend on full time players and being favourites they may well still get above averages at most grounds , but that will not provide those clubs with any long term benefit , in 2 years time Toronto will be gone , either playing in SL or folded due to not being let into SL 

So yes , a short term boost but not the massive raising of profile that many are suggesting 

Anyway the ' ratter ' needs walking and the grass needs cutting , so back later on 

[westside]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

That RL somehow became what it is on the back of copying from Canadian Football and copying from a Canadian teams Rugby Union tour to the UK. This is based on some post on a forum with more holes than a colander which has been disproved time and again. None of it stacks up. Even the basic premise of this was that Rugby League would have seen this and copied because this team played St Helens, until it was pointed out St Helens is the name of the ground where Swansea Rugby Union played. That is just the start of the flaws.

I see there was a whole thread on the topic that I missed. Interesting read but I’d say the question of whether the play-the-ball was first used in Canada is more nuanced than your post suggests. As you agreed on the earlier thread, at worst it’s a case of convergent evolution.

 

[North but south]

1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

' A ' Superstar , fine , but have any of them been that impressive really ? 

To me , yes a 19yr old Canadian would have impressed me more , it would have shown they were serious about finding NA talent , as a Leigh fan I was fully aware that their coach would not be interested in any form of development , he didn't have that kind of mind set , never has , hopefully any new clubs will work harder on that 

 

So you were impressed when the trials lead to the signing of 17 year old Canadian Quinn Ngawati. We you also impressed with the signing of Ryan Burroughs, American born player who played for North Virgina Eagles? The first season they had 3 Canadians and one American playing for them.  

[Kayakman]

44 minutes ago, North but south said:

So you were impressed when the trials lead to the signing of 17 year old Canadian Quinn Ngawati. We you also impressed with the signing of Ryan Burroughs, American born player who played for North Virgina Eagles? The first season they had 3 Canadians and one American playing for them.  

If Gubrats is so concerned about having Canadian and American born players in the game I'm sure he is all for getting rid of the quota system for UK players then?  With no quota system the new clubs would not then be penalized for having national team players on their payroll....where are you on this one Gubrats?

Gubrats I hope you enjoyed your 8 hour trip to Hull for the match.  I know from your post that you considered this long time to the game as a hardship and great accomplishment, or else you would not have mentioned it....its what I travel for every Wolfpack game as a matter of course as I quickly pop down to Toronto for a game, it is nothing..this is the problem Starbug, you actually really don't see the truth of things....you fail to see the forest because of the trees. You must try to expand your thoughts on these important matters to understand them...come on!...join the Pack and we will help you!...cross over to the truth and run with us!...we will assist you and show you the way!

The only way forward for you now Gubrats is to "Run With The Pack!"

Be brave...make the change...it is clearly a move in the right direction.

[Jayme2020]

14 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Novelty teams attract extra interest for a while , but once fans see it's just Leigh in a different shirt that can reduce , this year they are at least a little more exotic with Stanley and Lutele , a team with 3\4 actual Canadians would definitely be more interesting 

Similarily a full time 2 million pound team will attract fans hoping to see their team take essentially a SL scalp , but that will drop off in time , they will hopefully go up and be out of the Championship until another one comes along , but ultimately they won't help the lower tiers long term 

If its done right fans will keep coming.

[Scubby]

If inside 3-5 years we have a strong Catalans, Toulouse, Toronto, Ottawa and New York etc (and perhaps even a couple more) - will these clubs actually need SL (and its small time self-serving element) at all? Or will they just need 6/7 more ambitious progressive clubs to simply jump with them?

Whether we like it or not, multi-millionaires (or even billionaires) aren't going to wait around at the whims of clubs like Huddersfield, Salford, Wakefield etc. That is not how they do business and not how they made their money. They will probably look to sidestep the whole system.

[Jayme2020]

Captain Survival

Montreal would have been a very risky first choice .

 

 

[Jayme2020]

Just now, Scubby said:

If inside 3-5 years we have a strong Catalans, Toulouse, Toronto, Ottawa and New York etc (and perhaps even a couple more) - will these clubs actually need SL (and its small time self-serving element) at all? Or will they just need 6/7 more ambitious progressive clubs to simply jump with them?

Whether we like it or not, multi-millionaires (or even billionaires) aren't going to wait around at the whims of clubs like Huddersfield, Salford, Wakefield etc. That is not how they do business and not how they made their money. They will probably look to sidestep the whole system.

I think 4 years from now if the SL is Toronto/Ottawa/New York/Catalans/Toulouse you will see the league seen in a different light around the world in a good way.

[Scubby]

Just now, Jayme2020 said:

I think 4 years from now if the SL is Toronto/Ottawa/New York/Catalans/Toulouse you will see the league seen in a different light around the world in a good way.

I was talking more about any small-minded concerted effort to keep these guys in the Championship (by creating all sort of ridiculous entry criterion and caveats). Agree with your point though. 

[Jayme2020]

4 minutes ago, Scubby said:

I was talking more about any small-minded concerted effort to keep these guys in the Championship (by creating all sort of ridiculous entry criterion and caveats). Agree with your point though. 

If they were to make it to much effort some teams may just say screw it.

[Damien]

8 minutes ago, Jayme2020 said:

I think 4 years from now if the SL is Toronto/Ottawa/New York/Catalans/Toulouse you will see the league seen in a different light around the world in a good way.

I think few would argue with that.